bonding a fourth to a trio

[Ninchen]

I have a bonded trio: klopfer, nougat and kandis (1 fixed male, 2 females) and now I have to introduce another fixed male: pepe.

they live cage to cage now and the two males are quite aggressiv through the bars.:X

any tips ?

should I split the trio and bond two pairs ?

the two females like each other, they were already bonded when I got them, the males came later.

 

[BEAUKEZRA]

I wouldn't separate the 2 girls. I would try bonding the 2 boys first before introducing him to the rest of the group. I once had a foursome. 2 boys and 2 girls but one girl always bullied the other. They were all fixed except one girl and when I finally had her spayed she wasn't allowed back in the group. They started attacking her so my foursome became a threesome. Good luck.

 

[bunslave]

Hello Nichen,

Your bunny household is exactly like mine. I have a bonded trio. (2 females, they are sisters and 1 male) I rescued another little male later. Let me give you a couple of problems and I am sure many other folks will have advice. When you introduce another male into a bond with a male you can break a strong bond. We gave up on bonding Nemo with the trio because Dudley (he is the male of the trio) would attack not only Nemo but his girls too. No matter what I tried Dudley wasnt having it. Out of fear for the girls safety we stopped trying. Would you consider adding another female to your family and bonding her with the other boy? I am not saying it cant be done because it certainly can. A lot depends on the temperment of the bunnies involved. Some have great success with bonding and others dont. I do know that if they dont hit it off right away expect to be very patient and keep trying. I personally do not think trying to bond them seperate is a good idea and PLease Please Please dont seperate those bonded females. They will experience tremendous grief and confusion and you could end up with 4 rabbits that dont get along. Best of luck

 

[Ninchen]

the two males start to fight whenever they can.
don t think they will ever stop and get friends.

i have another female...she lived with the new male, but it never worked, he was not interested in her.

I had a bonded trio: klopfer (m), nougat (f) and kandis (f)

and a pair: anis (f) and pepe (m).

the trouble is pepe, he does t know how to behave like a rabbit. he is afraid of other rabbits and starts to fight with every other rabbit, he does t know what else he could do! (tried it since may).

i changed the males today: klopfer is now with anis and they were friends from the beginning !

all my three females love klopfer. and no one likes pepe.

nougat and kandis accept pepe. the three don t fight.
perhaps they will bond when they get the time.
its just the first day, after all. the girls cuddle with each other.

but i seperated klopfer from his two girls...

i can not have more than five rabbits and i have to build to groups.
seems to me that i can t make all 5 happy.

 

[bunslave]

I think switching out your males is a good idea. In my personal opinion (just my opinion keep in mind, there will be other ideas I am sure) males tend to take to the females easier than male to male or female to female. If you can bond Pepe to the two females and Klopfer and Anis make a good pair sounds like a solution that would work. I understand that Pepe doesnt get how to "act like a rabbit" My little Nemo is the same way. You will get there. Try putting a little banana on the two girls head and see it Pepe will lick it off. Grooming does a long way to making friends. Good Luck!!!!!

 

[Chaosqueen]

I definitely think that it's possible to put all 5 together. But, as I know, there are some rules you have to remind. The first and most important one is enough space for every bunny to escape, to hide and to avoid the other ones. As far as I know there should be at least 2m² per bunny. And you should offer many possibilities to hide (always with 2 exits).
Furthermore the "cage-on-cage-method" isn't the best. That only stokes aggressions. All foreign bunnies should neither see nor smell the other ones for about 2 weeks. Then they forgot them and are totally neutral. After that you need a neutral room for the socializing. You can make a room neutral by using glass cleaner or vinegar essence.
I hope I could help you =)

 

[Ninchen]

anis is disabled and was mobbed by kandis.
anyway, living in a group is too much stress for her, she can not walk properly and can not run away...

they have more than 2 qm per bunny and i already bonded pairs and trios successfully with the "german rules for bonding".

in the FAQ of this forum bonding is described very different...

mmmm, a lot of rules seem to be different with english/american bunnys.:biggrin2:

i guess there are some dogmas on both sides, which are not true but believed.

 

[BEAUKEZRA]

What are the German rules for bonding? I'm curious because if it works then maybe I could have my six bunnies living all together rather than in 3 different groups :biggrin2:.

 

[bunslave]

I would be curious about that too. Always nice to learn something new.

 

[Ninchen]

like choasqueen said:

enough space, thats about 2-3 qm per bunny for ever! no cages at all.

all unbonded bunnies should neither see nor smell the other ones for about 2 weeks.

then you put them in a neutral room with hay and water and let them fight!

small bites are ok.
you should only desinfect the wounds and then put the bunny back to the others. you have to stay there and watch them for a few days, but you should not intervene. that can be very hard. if the bites get nasty you have to stop it all.

that works ok with healthy buns. the sexes in the group should be mixed.

i now a lot people in germany with groups of bunnys, femals not fixed.

but they have to have enough space even after bonding. their new territory has to be 2-3 qm per bunny. not every bunny will love every other in the group. chasing is normal.

but bigger groups are not easy to litter train.
thats not a problem, when you have them outside (conditions for that are good in germany, but not always in other parts of the world).

then you can not so easily observe what each bun is eating and pooping...

i know that it works, but i prefer having real pairs, each pair in their own area.
in every hierarchie somebun is the last and i always worry about the underdog in a big group.

 

[Chaosqueen]

That's true. Everything has got pros and cons. I think the pros of a bigger group are that it's closer to how rabbits live in nature. Furthermore for me it's important to have just one big "cage" than a few smaller. I only can offer my room for the bunnies because I still live with my parents. They are annoyed enough by me overfilling the fridge It's not possible for me to have a cage of 4m² right side next to the bed and a cage of 4m² left side next to the bed. It's easier for me to have one big cage of actually 7,5m².

 

[Ninchen]

Chaosqueen . I think the pros of a bigger group are that it's closer to how rabbits live in nature. [/quote]

that is right,

but then it is natural for rabbits to get pregnant and have babys...again and again...every few weeks... the majority of them die.
the grown ups seldom get older than 2...

the natural way of life for a rabbit is very hard.

so: we do not need to copy everything thats natural :biggrin2:



i made two outside groups by now, which are peaceful:

kandis and klopfer

nougat and pepe

each pair has 4 qm plus play time.


anis (disabled) has to live alone.

we tried so many companions for her, but she is special.

perhaps i will try another one in the future, but we do not have the strength for bun number six right now.