Baci's Molar problems

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hln917

hln917

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, New Jersey, USA
Baci was just at the vet about 3 weeks ago. This will be the 3rd time he's having issues with his molars. This weekend he would "latch" on to us, following us all over the house, wanting to run and play.I don'teven think he slept during the day like he normally does. That's when I get nervous, every time he's so loving, I get paranoid that something is up. I noticed he didn'teat alot of greens but he was filling up the litter box. He hasn't touched any food today at all, however he's still pooping alot andstill very playful. He's humping our slippers like crazy. (He's not neutered) I did hearsome grinding andhe will take a craisin but Inoticedit took awhile for him tochew it. Thisled me to b/l it'shis molars and notstatis. I'm mixing up a batch of CC and pedialyte for him. (I was able to get the apple/banana mix from Lambert so hopefully he'll like it better than the original flavor.)

Unfortunately his regular vet will not be in until Friday and I must have called at least 6 vets who will see rabbits but not with molar issues. I finally found onean hour away who'll see me tomorrow afternoon. Not thrilled with the travel time, he doesn't like car rides. But I think I'll be more stressed if I have to wait till Friday.

My question is~ should I see if their is an option to extract the molar which is giving him problems. I'd hate to see him go thru this every month. Also how to prevent this from happening in the future? His diet consist of Oxbow pelletsand hay but he refuses to touchthe haysince his statis back in Sept. I've tried taken his pellets away but he's so stubborn.I've even got some from Bunny Bale. He normally eats a good serving of baby lettuce. Is that enough to help grind down his teeth?
 
Often the problem with molars is genetic ( rabbit teeth in general)and really cannnot be solved by giving more hay although it is always worth it to try any way that you can to get a bun to eat hay . Hay can keeps molars ground down but not if the bun has molars that are diseased or growingat different angles ( total misalignement)


If the molars are healthy and just need grinding regularly I am unsure whether you would want to put a rabbit through molar extractions which are fairly major . Some timesa tiny portion of the toothis left during an exrtaction and the tooth grows back anyway
I see an animal dentist who has extracted multiple molars from my Beau but these teeth are usually infected, decayed and not aligned.

Bottom line is you really don't know what is going on with his molars right now and an x-ray of the skull and teeth would help the vet/dentist decide what to do.



If you decide to go for total extraction the opposing teeth (bottom or top) would also need to be removed as the there would not be any possibility of grinding motion with the opposing teeth out.

Many vets can grind molars but if you are talking extractions this is not an easy task as the roots are long and it is not an easy procedure for an inexperienced vet. I have a dentist through a University vet school which seems to be a good way to go for something like this although it does get pricey.
A dental issue will bring on stasis and in this event the cause of the stasis needs to be resolved but the stasis must be treated also. Assuming that his teeth are an issue getting the Critical care is a good option as this may reolve his issues until the dental work is done ((if that is the issue.)
Recently Flick posted a video of her rabbit's Stella's molar extractions. her bun has serious issues like my Beau. it is really interesting to see the procedure done soI will find that thread for you.


http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=53780&forum_id=16
 
Thanks Angieluv,after posting Baci ran up to his pellets and started eating, but still not his greens. I did notice his poop were getting smaller. We just gave him some Pedialyte and will give him some CC before we go to bed and I'll stay out with him tonight. It's just strange that he's still very active. I do plan to ask the vet to take an xray of the skull tomorrow.
 
Every rabbit is different; my rabbit could not eat hay or greens when his teeth were bothering himbut did eat pellets.
just keep him hydrated and observe intake and output untio you can get to the vet.
 
If the problem is spurs -- points on the molars -- I've had great luck controlling them with diet only with my non-hay eater.

You may not have the same results, but I'd actually be encouraging him to eat a variety of 'tough' food and not give him slurry, or even pellets or craisins.

Try different varieties of hay, stemmy veggies, harder ones like kale, try some grass, etc.

Pipp was having spur issues requiring dental surgery every six to eight weeks. She folds as soon as she feels the slightest spur, she gets hyper and attentive, and then stops eating things one at a time and eventually only pellets and then nothing, even though her spurs aren't very bad.

I hadn't been paying attention one week and she got to the 'eating nothing' stage with a spur rubbing on her cheek on a long weekend -- no vet. I figured I'd have to get her through the next few days with Critical Care, Pedialyte and Metacam. She started feeling better after the Metacam and Pedialyte. I was out of CC so I started to give her just her favourite chewy veggies -- kale, carrot, broccoli stems, a few carrot tops, stemmy things like parsley and cilantro, dill, etc. (She will not eat hay). With the Metacam kicking in, she was eating them. And lo and behold, she started eating everything, and by the time the long weekend was over, she was back to normal. The spur had broken off.

Since then, I've managed to avoid the dental surgery almost entirely -- the only one she's needed was when she was off her food for a day or two for other reasons -- which almost always means she'll get her spurs coming back almost immediately -- and I didn't want to chance the Metacam and wanted her generally checked out anyway.

Otherwise, every time she goes into 'spur' mode, I make a point of enticing her all day with variety -- the above veggies, a few seeds and other things she wouldn't normally get, and cutting her off pellets, and after a day or two of sulking, she does eat them and the spurs do go away.

It's an ongoing battle though. If she skips one veggie meal, she loses ground and its noticeable.

Hay should be the best thing, but sometimes I think that even hay bunnies with spurs should have more variety to keep them in check -- first and second cut hays, grasses, etc. And pet store bags barely count seeing as the contents are so broken up so often and there isn't a lot of variety within the bag. (Cubes don't work on teeth at all, btw, not much different than pellets).

I really think bunny slaves in every neighbourhood should band together in groups and split up bales and flakes of a variety of good farm hay and truly make the hay feedings 'unlimited'. A few handfuls a day of the same stale pet store bag doesn't really cut it, and it's ridiculously expensive to boot. A 'hay pool' would be so much cheaper and healthier.


sas :clover:
 
Thanks Pipp. Baci was still overly active last night. I slept out in the room with him and heard him running all over the place. He does seem to take the Apple/banana CC better. Still fighting but I'm sure it taste better. He did poop and pee but they are smaller. Aside from being picky with hay, he's also very picky with his greens. I've tried the parsely and carrot top, not a fan, I'll try the others. I gave him a few sliver of carrots and he took that. The vet appointment is at 2pm later which will seem like forever. Should I still give him a dose of benebac and should I feed him before we go? It's an hour ride and I'm afraid it may stress him more.
 
This is so frustrating! Baci's regular vet won't be back till Friday so I made an appointment to go to another hospital an hour away. They have to dremel down his molars again yet the procedure can't be done till tomorrow morning!! She said hisinside cheeks were a bit lacerated from biting on them which is why he's not eating. I'm to drop him off at 8am tomorrowandreturn late afternoon to pick him up. The cost here is double the amount, over $300, however I don't want to wait till Friday. He's still not eating on his own andright nowhe's abit quietperhaps b/c he was up all night and this morning running. I just gave him more Pedialtye and will give him benebac and CC when hubby gets home. He's not a fan with that feeding syringe and fought me the entire time taking Pedialtye.
 
There are two videos on this site showing a vet work on a rabbit's malocclusion, "Surgical Correction of Molar and Incisor Malocclusiooons: Chapter 1: Incisor and Molar Trimming" and "... Chapter 2: Mandibular and Maxillary Molar Extractions".

These may help you to better understand the situation and procedures and be more at ease with making decisions about Baci's teeth. There is very little blood in the videos. And, Stella is in my living room with her bond mate, Parker. She's doing GREAT!

Fast Up on Rabbit Care

debbie h


 
Probably too late now, but if you're getting some Critical Care and fluids into him and you can give him some pain meds, that might make the difference. Pipp eats when she's on Metacam, but otherwise the slightest irritation on her tongue or cheek, forget it.

If it's a slight abrasion and the Metacam works, I'd probably try and wait until Friday with the deciding factor being whether the far-away-expensive vet could take him Thursday if he was bad.

Sorry for the late response, didn't get reply notifications.


sas :clover:
 
The vet told me not to give him any Metcam. We gave him CC, pedialyteyesterday and a dose of benebac. Then at 1am we noticed he didn't use the littebox, we also gave him some simethicone. This morning at 5:30 he still didn't move from his spot last night, then we he saw me going over to the girls' cage, he hopped down and straight to the litterbox. The poop was very small but at least it was something. Then surprisingly he ran around and straight to his pellet. He started munching down! Now he's back up in his basket. I'm sure his cheeks are hurting now. At least he has something in his stomach. I'll give him pedialyte before we head out. I don't think I want to wait till Friday. I hate to see him so uncomfortable. I'll just survive on coffee and crackersthe next coupleof days! :p
 
Flick, I don't think I have the stomach to watch the video. But thanks. It's comforting to know that Stella is ok now.

Stan~ he won't touch the parsley or carrot top. Only thebaby lettuce orbaby romaine. He wouldn'teven take pumpkin. I just dropped Baci off and it was so hard to leave. They said the process should take about 30 minutes, however they won't release him until he consume food on his own. I also warned them that he's very stubborn, since he's in unfamiliar surroundings, he may not eat until he gets home. Now it's just the waiting...
 
I would question keeping him until he consumes food on his own; this sounds like a way for the hospital to try to make extra $$$.
Sometimes they will not eat on their own right away ..you can always give CC ; I would talkto them
I do not think that is normal procedure.
 
I agree, you can feed the CC. No reason to keep him there unless you can't keep an eye on him all day.

I don't know if it would be easier to have the molars extracted. How old is he, and does the vet think he'd be a good candidate for anesthesia? Do you want to shell out upwards of $500 now, to not have to do molar trims in the future.
 
I just picked him up from the vet. They said he ate some greens and pellets on his own and drank some water then flipped the bowl onto the pellets. Little feisty bugger. What concern me is she said not to be alarm if I saw some blood stain on his fur, it was from his drool. Also the anesthesia was administered via IV thru his paws.(The last2 times I believe they gave him the anesthesia via needle.)Is this anormal procedure to give to a bun? She doesn't recommend to extract his molar b/c he's so small. He's down another ounce from yesterday. I'm to give him metacam once a day until he starts eating on his own with not signs of discomfort. I just gave him a piece of green and he's taking it slowly. I think he's still nervous. He's not making clicking sound, the pain kind, but more like the slapping of the mouth. Is that something to be concern about?

I was also surprise at the amount of time they were holding him. Usually I can pick him up within 1-2 hours after I drop him off. With this new place I dropped him off at 8am and couldn't pick him up till 4:30pm. The bill came out to about $265. ~ $180 for the dental, $67 for the anesthesia. He still seems groggy a bit, he seems very tired. I'm a bit nervous, should I just amount this to him having a stressful day and he's just trying to rest now?
 
IV anesthesia is better than gas in many situations, so it's good that they used that.

I don't know the sound you're talking about, but maybe one of our bunny people familiar with dental bunnies knows it.
 
Since I last posted, Baci is slowing doing a 360. He jumping from his lettuce to the pellets to his water bowl and .....HAY!! He has not touched hay since last Sept when he had his bout with the statis and we switched over from alfalfa to timothy.He's sure making up for not eating the last couple of days. I'm hoping he keeps up with the hay. Now we just have to wait and see if he jumps into his litterbox.

Now my question is if he's eating on his own, should I still give him the metacam? I just hate giving them any drugs if unnecessary.
 
Not sure why there would be blood unless they nicked him, which isn't good. Hopefully it was just from the spur-related cheek ulcer. There's a pretty major blood vessel in that area that really has to be avoided, you really want the work to be precise.

And IV isn't commonly used for simple dental procedures like spurs because it's hard to do, it can be stressful to the rabbit and a lot of the light anesthetics are not conducive to IV. They will often give a sedative to a rabbit just to be able to put the the IV in, while some vets will only use a sedative to do the whole procedure. Any idea what they used?

It does make the anesthetic administration very controllable though, and a bonus if there are complications.

Unless there was a nick, the procedure is painless except for the uncomfortable stretching caused by the mouth brace. If they crank their little mouths open too much or keep it on too long, it can be stiff and painful.

If he stops eating, its probably because the pain meds are wearing off and he's uncomfortable, but if he's not showing signs of pain, don't bother with the Metacam.

Big thing though is to keep him warm. The anesthetic will give them the chills post surgery.

Glad he's eating hay!


sas :bunnydance:
 
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