Anyone who has/had a rabbit with pasteurella?

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Thanks so much for the links! I have done injections before so that won't be a problem. I have given Bayril through injection and have also done subcutaneous fluids so injections don't bother me at all. I have one vet who has allowed me to do injections at home so if the oral Baytril doesn't take care of Nora's problem I'll ask for a prescription for the bicillin and give it a try. I've done some further reading and saw another study that found injectable bicillin to be useful in soft tissue abcesses.
Another antibiotic I want to ask about is Zithromax, which I had also never heard about.
 
Zithromax is commonly used in people (azithromycin). The vet may not have Bicillin, but again, it's found at places like Farm and Fleet or Tractor Supply Co. You'll also want some sterile saline or lactated ringer's solution to dilute the Bicillin with and make the injection "sting" less.
 
My foster just had her abscess removed surgically. She is labelled with Snuffles at the Humane Society. You can see some pictures in the new Gallery section on the side tabs.
 
Such a shame. There is no such thing as "snuffles". I hate to see that term used because it tells me immediately about the level of rabbit experience I am dealing with when vets make that "diagnosis". And surgery is so unnecessary most of thetime. Just adds a lot of pain to the animal. And "snuffles" is a generic term used many times for an upper respiriatory infection. We now know that the bacteria Pasteurella Multocida is usually involved and it can infect any body tissue. But.....those of us that deal with rabbit abscesses on a regular basis know that Pasteurella is a "tag along" in abscess situations and isn't the primary infection. And the common drugs usually used for Pasteurella will not resolve a true abscess.

Randy
 
ra7751 wrote:
Such a shame. There is no such thing as "snuffles". I hate to see that term used because it tells me immediately about the level of rabbit experience I am dealing with when vets make that "diagnosis". And surgery is so unnecessary most of thetime. Just adds a lot of pain to the animal. And "snuffles" is a generic term used many times for an upper respiriatory infection. We now know that the bacteria Pasteurella Multocida is usually involved and it can infect any body tissue. But.....those of us that deal with rabbit abscesses on a regular basis know that Pasteurella is a "tag along" in abscess situations and isn't the primary infection. And the common drugs usually used for Pasteurella will not resolve a true abscess.

Randy
Randy, are you a vet or some sort of so-called rabbit expert?
 
To Katmais Mommy:

Have you taken Katmais to the vet yet? Do you know if the diagnosis is pasturella?? Please let us know how your bunny is doing and what the vet says! It's always so worrisome when our furry babies are sick.
 
Katmais_mommy wrote:
ra7751 wrote:
Such a shame. There is no such thing as "snuffles". I hate to see that term used because it tells me immediately about the level of rabbit experience I am dealing with when vets make that "diagnosis". And surgery is so unnecessary most of thetime. Just adds a lot of pain to the animal. And "snuffles" is a generic term used many times for an upper respiriatory infection. We now know that the bacteria Pasteurella Multocida is usually involved and it can infect any body tissue. But.....those of us that deal with rabbit abscesses on a regular basis know that Pasteurella is a "tag along" in abscess situations and isn't the primary infection. And the common drugs usually used for Pasteurella will not resolve a true abscess.

Randy
Randy, are you a vet or some sort of so-called rabbit expert?
From Randys mod bio...

ra7551- RANDY- (Infirmary Moderator) - I'm Randy and I run Sabrina's House Rabbit Rescue. We are primarily a rescue and sanctuary for "special needs" domestic rabbits. I treat the cases that vets don't treat. My specialties are related to GI issues, head tilt and E Cuniculi. We also accept small exotic mammals as well as birds. I am a licensed wildlife rehabilitator with a specialty in eastern cottontails but I also work any animal that can be legally treated. There have been hundreds of cottontails and squirrels thru here and many other species from field mice and opossums to hawks, owls and eagles.


I would also like to add that he works very close with a vet school.



Snuffles is a broad term that can have a broad range of causes. It is like saying every time a person is sick it is the flu. There can be so many different causes and each requires a different protocal. The key to the most sucessful treatment is finding the EXACT cause and treating it with the best medication possible.


Also I have a HIGH pasteurella postive bunny who has tried a LOT of medications beforeI pushed for something out of the norm and saw real postive results.
 
Thank you but I'm going to put my trust in a vet, not a rabbit rescue moderator. Also, even though you speak against Baytril, Katmai was prescribed Baytril and it worked WONDERFULLY.

And to Karenladd: Katmai did see a vet. He has a low positive pasteurella that has been treated. Yesterday was his last day of medicine. He is much better! :)
 
If you get the chance you should read my guys story. Ringo and his Ongoing Story of Hope

It is a bit long but it starts back in Sept of 06. It can give you an idea on some triggers.
 
Katmais_mommy wrote:
Thank you but I'm going to put my trust in a vet, not a rabbit rescue moderator. Also, even though you speak against Baytril, Katmai was prescribed Baytril and it worked WONDERFULLY.

And to Karenladd: Katmai did see a vet. He has a low positive pasteurella that has been treated. Yesterday was his last day of medicine. He is much better! :)

I have had baytril work wonderfully the first few times it is prescribed but inevitably the infection will return. I have had so called "rabbit -saavy" vets prescribe baytril for difficult URI infections only to have the rabbit worsen mid treatment; most rabbits will eventually develop a resistance to baytril.

It is most commonly prescribed because vets have notup-dated their knowledge beyondthe simple fundamentalslearnedin their exotics rotation in school

When treating rabbits one needs to investigateany vet before permitting treatment...just too risky

that actually means learning a lot on your own which is why a site like this is so helpful


DVM behind a name means very little when treating rabbits unless the vet hasstudied rabbit medicineand treated many.

I am veryvery glad that your rabbit has improved. :)That is really what it is all about here.


...and stick around the forum a little longer. :)

Randy is quite a bitmore more than a 'rabbit rescue moderator"; heis responsible forsaving rabbit's lives on this forum;he hasadvised vetsworldwide on "cutting edge" treatment for rabbits and his rescue is a training ground for exotics medicine

Randy's vast knowledge on rabbits ( and wildlife) is current
due to his alliance with a veterinary school.


Maureen
 
ra7751 wrote:
Such a shame. There is no such thing as "snuffles". I hate to see that term used because it tells me immediately about the level of rabbit experience I am dealing with when vets make that "diagnosis".
Randy

"Snuffles" is actually a medical term used for humans as well as rabbits. We use it as a generic term for cold symptoms in rabbits. You will also find the term listed in the human medical dictionary for similar symptoms in humans. It is also a term associated with the nasal discharge of an infant with congenital syphilis.

We use the generic term "cold" for humans even though a "cold" isn't always caused by the rhino virus.

These terms aren't meant for diagnostic purposes, but to describe signs of illness.
 
My bun has been on baytril for a month now for pasteurella. It's helping a bit, but she isn't eating her night droppings anymore. How concerned should I be?
 
I agree, if the vet says your rabbit has snuffles, your first question should be "What is causing the snuffles?" If the vet doesn't know or offer tests to find out, the vet knows little about rabbits.
 
My 7 year old mini Rex had pastuella and the vet gave him bay trill three days later after we gave him his baytril he passed away. 15 mins after that
 
As a rancher with 25 years experience raising purebred Arabian show horses, miniature goats and longwool sheep,along with 12 years experience raising purebred longhair cavies, I would definitely put my faith in Randy's advice. Practioners of animal husbandry accumulate a vast wealth of practical knowledge which veterinarians don't have time to accumulate. Veterinarians are scientists who treat many patients, read medical literature, and go to conferences. They usually do not handle the day-to-day treatment of your animals. That is YOUR job. They are doctors, not caretakers.

As a caretaker with years of experience, I have learned how to give injections, read symptoms, start initial treatment, perform all kinds of first aid, and even suture open wounds. I have reached inside numerous female animals to reposition a baby for delivery, handle breeding stallions, and done all the things a good caretaker does to provide an optimal healthy, happy environment for my animals, and provide proper nutrition. Yes, I have taken animal science classes at the university, attended clinics on all sort of topics, such as nutrition, breeding, and other matters. None of this makes me a medical expert, which is why I hire the services of a veterinarian. Having a good vet, however, is not my only resource. I rely on the experiences of other ranches and cavy breeders as well.

I think the most important point of being an animal owner is to learn how to read your animals and the signs can be very subtle. A horse looking "not quite right", a marsu who seems "off the weather", a goat who isn't quite as energetic as usual. These are the subtle signs which foretell an illness long before the obvious symptoms which appear after the illness has been in the animal's system for several days. By then, your animal is very sick and you've lost precious time in starting treatment.

So, you look for the subtle signs, which is particularly important with rabbits, cavies, and other prey animals, who mask their symptoms until they are desperately ill. I read many forum posts like this: "Two days ago my bunny got a stuffy nose and now she won't eat. What should I do?" or "My marsu wouldn't eat last night and I woke up this morning and he was dead."

PEOPLE! Being an animal caretaker is more than relying on your veterinarian. You have to READ your animals. For example, I have a bunny on Batril. After 10 days, there was no improvement. She stopped eating. I called the vet. She said, "keep her on the Batril. Give it time to work." Based on my experience, I have seen animals not improve and that means it's usually because the drug is not effective for some reason. We may never know the reason - resistant bacteria, the animal is not metabolizing the drug properly, etc. So, at that point, I drew on my years of experience and decided that there are drugs which attack pneumonia better than Batril. So, Iconsulted the vet again and demanded that we try another medication. We put the bunny on trimethylprim sulfa. Within 36 hours, I saw dramatic improvement. She's still not eating, but she is more alert, has her ears up, and the white extrudant on her nose is gone. Okay, that's progress. Now, I have to get her to a better stage where she can eat without handfeeding. So, as a responsible owner, I do my homework. I read and read about apetite stimulants, other possible medications, and then armed with this knowledge, I call the vet. I present my findings and that gives the vet some ideas to think about. We discuss the options, make a plan, and try it for several days to see what happens. One option would be changing to a newer medication- maybe azithromycin (if it's available in Finland) or something else. What herbs are recommended and who has used them with success? How do I keep the costs of all this treatment reasonable? At the back of my mind is what happens if the bunny refuses to eat and has to be euthanized? How do I tell my husband because she is his bunny?

In the meantime, I rely very heavily on the experiences posted by people like Randy, who are kind and caring enough to spend their time - with being paid - to help those of us with less experience. To discount someone like Randy, just because he is not a vet, is pretty harsh. Veterinarians listen to people like Randy to add to their knoweldge base of what happens "in the field".

Personally, I think Randy wrote a very good post with valuable information that you can't easily find elsewhere.

Thank you, Randy.
 
I also really value Randy's advice, I wish he was still active on the forum. I often use the search engine to look up his advice on specific topics. I also once contacted him through a Facebook page for the current animal rescue he runs and he emailed me and answered all my questions. He's brilliant :)
 
I have a bun with Pasteurella. He had it when I got him. His lungs have always been clear and he came through his neutering surgery just fine (although the vet was very concerned he wouldn't, but she is a bit of a worry wart). His nose does pop and click when he inhales because he's snotty, and he does sneeze and have a little bit of yellowy discharge. His eyes used to get crusty too.

We did a round of abx to try to treat it, but it didn't make any change.

What helped most was getting him a friend. She keeps his face cleans and runs to be with him when he has a sneezing fit, and generally keeps him happy and keeps his stress down.

I have read and heard stories that range from "totally mild, no effect" to "died from horribly abscessed lungs" and I think most cases lie somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't worry too much. Be aware of it, keep him happy and healthy, go to the vet if you see a lot of discharge or gross green stuff, but he should live a reasonably long and normal life.

It is the herpes of the rabbit world, so said my vet yesterday. I have a cat with herpes and it also presents as an upper resp infection. There are a lot of boogers on my walls...
 
In the meantime, I rely very heavily on the experiences posted by people like Randy, who are kind and caring enough to spend their time - with being paid - to help those of us with less experience. To discount someone like Randy, just because he is not a vet, is pretty harsh. Veterinarians listen to people like Randy to add to their knoweldge base of what happens "in the field"

Oh oh, typo. "without being paid".

Ah, that's better.
 

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