Am I pushing him too much?

[3willowsbunny]

We brought home our 11 week old Flemish Giant Saturday and he has been very good with potty training and letting me pet him and feed him out of my hand (some of his pellets) but has tried to bite on occasion. I noticed he was a bit "mouthy" at the breeders but he didn't actually bite just little nips, almost like teething tasting or something. I think I am to blame for the one time I did get a little nip on the finger and the time he tried to put a hole through my jeans, I was "in his turf" (we have a huge dog crate and an x pen attached, I was sitting in the x pen, just watching and petting him). Mostly he just nudged me for the past day or so. Yesterday I thought I would try to pick him up, it went okay till I stood up, he got scared and nearly bit my neck, he got put down carefully but fast. I read that if you hold a rabbit away from you, hand under front legs, other hand supporting butt he would accept it better, well he was fine until I tried to put him down. He ran into his cage and thumped at least 5 times, glaring daggers at me! The only reason I want him to get used to me holding him is for nail clipping. He has no problem with me touching, or even rubbing his paws and feet but to clip them I would have to puck him up. I'm actually getting a little afraid of him as he is going to be a huge rabbit, and a huge rabbit that bites would not be good at all. We are getting him neutered soon, but I need to learn how to be patient and not ruin my bunny....

I was giving him a half of a baby carrot but only if he climbed on my lap, kind of a reward for trusting me. Have I killed the trust by trying to pick him up?

Does he have too much "turf"? I folded up the x pen and he is now only in his ex large dog crate. I think he is a bit aggressive due to me being in his space. I though t I was doing fine with him until today, please tell me I didn't ruin my bunny!!

 

[Apebull]

Are you sure he is a he and not a she. I know that females can get cage aggression and lung at you if you are in there area. He may have also not learned not to bit as a baby. If he's nipping you to get your attention I've heard if you yelp really loud it will let them know hay that hurts don't do that. You can also gently hold his head down to show that it is behavior that is not accepted.

As for him being mad at you for trying to pick him up. Don't worry about it, he'll get over it. If you continue to work with him he'll get used to it. I know the first time I cut Twig's nails he was angry and gave me the "silent treatment" for almost the rest of the day. But now I just get bunny butt for a few minutes then he's fine.

 

[Azerane]

When he nips you, say a sharp "no" and hold his head to the ground. It doesn't hurt them, it's what other rabbits do to let a rabbit know they don't like what they did. If you're consistent he will learn not to bite. Bandit used to give little nips when I first got him, but he doesn't anymore. As for picking him up, maybe instead of standing up straight away, stay close to the ground and hold him so he feels secure and reward him if he's calm while you're holding him and also when you put him down. Hope that helps

 

[3willowsbunny]

The breeder showed us his "pee pee" when I asked to make sure he was a he, so yes, I'm 100% sure he is a he. I think he just doesn't know he hurts when he nibbles a bit too enthusiastically. I did do the head down when he tried to bite through my jeans. He has forgiven me, I opened his crate and petted and talked to him, I put gates up at the doorways to the room he is in and let him wander around while me and my Golden Retiever were laying on the floor. Stewie would come over for a sniff or nudge, he was nose to nose with our dog (they adore each other!). There was no nipping at all from Stewie, he was chewing on everything but that room is pretty empty totally rabbit safe, he found a cardboard box and a kiln dried 2x4 (sawhorse leg) to chomp on. I emailed the breeder and she said to towel him for nail clippings. I used to have to do that with my African Grey but now I can just do it with her sitting on my lap. I'm going to continue to work on picking him up, I don't want him afraid of me or me afraid of him. I just realllllly don't want to get bit, funny how a bunny bite scares me and an African Grey bite doesn't scare me at all (though I have had Kellie for 15 years and know all her quirks) bunny is a mystery to me.

 

[whiskylollipop]

I think he's being hormonal. 11 weeks is about the right age that most rabbits start going through bunny puberty. It's a good sign that he's got the restraint to just be "teethy" - yes he's annoyed, but if he doesn't draw blood he's not really trying to bite you. Neutering (or spaying if it's a she) should help with all these territorial and hormonal aggressive behaviours.

He's nudging and mouthing you to get attention. It would be a good thing to use some positive/negative reinforcement to show your bold bunny what's the right way to get it - as Apebull said, squeal if he bites and gently push his head down to show him you don't like it. If he nudges, give him a friendly head rub and a pellet as a treat. He'll soon figure out the most pleasant way to interact with you!

When you pick a bunny up the most important thing is that he feels SECURE, in that he's not going to fall no matter what AND if he tried to escape, it's never going to work. Balancing his front legs on your hand is fairly unstable and that's what would've made him so terrified. You want to grip him under his chest, firmly but not squeezing, and with your other hand grip his back feet together, palm up, like his feet and your left hand are a sausage roll supporting his hindquarters. So that he can't kick, can't roll out of your hands, ain't going anywhere even if a violent earthquake struck suddenly. Don't let go until he is ground level, they tend to try and escape the most when they see the ground coming up, which could seriously hurt them.

Don't worry, you didn't ruin him. He sounds like a very bold and friendly bunny, maybe a grumpy teenage one right now, but there's no real aggression in him and I bet he WILL get over it and calm down after his neuter. Best of luck!

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Sounds like a normal bunny trying his best to train you. Got to keep working at it--consistency is your friend. He will come to accept being handled. Mine don't have a choice as this isn't a Democracy. Just keep at it and use the advice given by everyone. Remember, your the alpha or else your in for a world of problems.

 

[3willowsbunny]

Sounds like a normal bunny trying his best to train you. Got to keep working at it--consistency is your friend. He will come to accept being handled. Mine don't have a choice as this isn't a Democracy. Just keep at it and use the advice given by everyone. Remember, your the alpha or else your in for a world of problems.

I can see where wimping out would be an issue for me, I have to nut up and not let him get the upper hand. I did it with my parrot and dog and to a big extent the kids (99.9% MOM, the rest...friend) momma is the alpha of the house . My husband brought up that with my bird I can see her beak and her pupils get smaller when she's miffed, with the bunny those choppers are hidden by a cute little wiggly nose so you never know when he's going to chomp. I will definatly not wimp out anymore!

 

[lovelops]

I don't think you've ruined your bunny. He's only 11 weeks old!!! He's still getting used to you and I've heard that the Flemish Giant's are a bit different any way to deal with.. they are special! I would not be afraid of him however, you know he is going to pick up on that..I don't think you've killed any kind of trust. Heck if that was the case I would have ruined it with Lady for the times I had to *try* to pick her up!

I think it's a territory thing, but think you need to keep working with him and be patient with him. I don't have a Flemish Giant but Brooke is like 10 going on 11 pounds now and she has bit me in the face sometimes after picking her up but I think some times the dogs spook her, or she is nervious, or.. it could be hundreds of things. She is a rescue and your little guy is young. I don't think you ruined anything. I think he is being a young bunny and is being a bit territorial at times. Since he is about as big as Brooke and I can't keep Brooke in a cage either, I would keep the Xpen out.

In my case, Brooke needs space for her litter box and I don't want to put her food on top of her litter box. I just think that is gross. It's like eating in the bathroom. Your little guy is going to need room for his litter box and food and toys also and I don't know how much he weighs now but he is probably going to be huge.

Let us know how it's going and I wouldn't get too freaked out!

Vanessa

 

[lovelops]

I emailed the breeder and she said to towel him for nail clippings. I used to have to do that with my African Grey but now I can just do it with her sitting on my lap. I'm going to continue to work on picking him up, I don't want him afraid of me or me afraid of him. I just realllllly don't want to get bit, funny how a bunny bite scares me and an African Grey bite doesn't scare me at all (though I have had Kellie for 15 years and know all her quirks) bunny is a mystery to me.

Ok so you are going to do a bunny burrito for him when it's time to cut his nails. I have NOT yet cut the girls nails. There was a bunny grooming clinic going on in November and I took them to that. I let someone else deal with the headache!

Our grandma was scared of Brooke because of how big she was also and had the same problem in picking her up. I told her that Brooke could tell she was scared and would make it difficult to be picked up. I showed her by just walking in the Xpen and picking Brooke up even if she ran, snorted, was doing something else.. eating, etc it was better if you didn't show any fear. I won't pick her up if she is using the litter box! I just go in there and grab that big
ol' bunny! And sure she is going to bite me some times. I know that is going to sound like sh*t, but I've just about gotten used to these guys bitting me.
My original two bunnies NEVER bit me at all. They were sweetie. These two think I'm a chew toy. I can't win for losing with them. I take them to get their nails cut, the come home and bite me. I pet them and stop petting them, they bite me. I give them treats... you get the general idea. Trust me, Brooke's teeth are pretty big also, so I know where you are coming from with your Fleming, but I've gotten used to her body language also to know when she is about to be assy and try to bite me.

That making the noise like a squeal with her does not work when she bites me also. She *loves* to hear me make that sound and I posted before I think I saw little hearts in her eyes and her batting her pretty black long eye lashes like the monster in the warner brothers cartoon with Bugs Bunny after I made the sound. She now will bite me *just* to hear that sound. She thinks it's cute. I think otherwise.

But it sounds like things are going wll so far!

Vanessa

 

[BlueMoods]

No rabbit likes to be picked up and, Flemish Giants are big rabbits, instead of trying to hold him, try teaching him to sit in your lap, on the floor and let you hold, pet and manipulate his feet. You will be able to trim his mails that way and, spare you both the frustration of trying to hold him or pick him up.

 

[PaGal]

Stick with it. He's only 11 weeks old and has much more growing to do. It will be much harder getting him used to being picked up when he is larger. He may get miffed for a while but it will pass. Remember buns are prey animals so for them being picked up instinctively means they are going to be eaten. You just have to work with him until he learns that is not the case.

You may want to check out the site The Language of Lagomorphs. It explains what they are trying to communicate through their behavior and body language.

Flemmies are a wonderful breed. Thanks to my boy I don't imagine I'll ever live without having one.

 

[3willowsbunny]

Stick with it. He's only 11 weeks old and has much more growing to do. It will be much harder getting him used to being picked up when he is larger. He may get miffed for a while but it will pass. Remember buns are prey animals so for them being picked up instinctively means they are going to be eaten. You just have to work with him until he learns that is not the case.

You may want to check out the site The Language of Lagomorphs. It explains what they are trying to communicate through their behavior and body language.

Flemmies are a wonderful breed. Thanks to my boy I don't imagine I'll ever live without having one.

The language of lagomorphs is excellent!! I was reading it while my son was in his karate class and have bookmarked it for further reading tonight. Thank you!!

 

[Tammy B]

Hi..

I have a bun that is doing the biting thing with me right now amongst other things..Urg...i have been doing everything i can think of including the NO and holding his head to the floor and it doesn't seem to be working it seems to make him more determined but we're still battling it out and he's only started thios recently but i think it's his hormones as he is doing other things too while he's nipping and then biting.

Hopefully once you get him neutered this will stop or at least give you a calmer bun to work with..At least that's what i am hoping for my bun.

 

[Sage's mom]

Holding his head to the floor? This will not only result in a confused, hurt rabbit, but it will destroy all trust. Please re-think your tactics. This sounds abusive.

 

[Sage's mom]

If your rabbit does not like to be picked up, don't pick him up. Period. This is not rocket science folks it's about mutual respect and understanding. Forcing will create misery. I promise.

 

[Azerane]

Holding his head to the floor? This will not only result in a confused, hurt rabbit, but it will destroy all trust. Please re-think your tactics. This sounds abusive.

This is a common technique used that simulates the behaviour of other rabbits. It does not hurt the rabbit, you are only holding their head down for a moment or two, I have used it with Bandit, he never got hurt, he never seemed confused, he still trusts me and he doesn't bite anymore.

If your rabbit does not like to be picked up, don't pick him up. Period. This is not rocket science folks it's about mutual respect and understanding. Forcing will create misery. I promise.

With some rabbits, perhaps. But with Bandit, if I never picked him up, he would forever have been scared to be. But the fact is, there are times when I need to pick him up, so by working with him slowly, I gained his trust to where he lets me pick him up whenever, but initially he hated it. Because I was persistent with trying with him, he got used to it and trusts me to do it. He is far from miserable.

 

[Sage's mom]

Granted there are times when a rabbit must be picked up. But consistently forcing him is not a good idea. Especially with rescued rabbits.

Also, I will never condone aggressive forms of training. It may not "hurt" them but it is not kind or helpful.

 

[BlueMoods]

Holding a rabbit's head down (AKA reminding them to take a submissive posture toward you) is not harmful, it's using the same means another rabbit would use to communicate to them that they need to cooperate, like it or not. Every domestic aqnimal has to learn that lesson, they may not like what we must do to care for them all of the time but, they need to learn to accept it.

I'm quite sure none of mine actually like having thier nails trimmed, ears tattooed, medicine forced in their mouths, having the food rationed, having to get in the crates when I decide it's bed time etc... but that's what they all have learned to accept as part of life around here, like it or not, it isn't going to change and, they know it. They also know that the best thing to do is simply put the head down and be quiet if they don't like it. No nipping, fighting me, etc... it will be over sooner if they simply submit to it and, putting the head down is how they can tell me they will allow what has to be done but, are not happy about it.

Mutual understanding, they learned how to communicate displeasure with me w/o making it a fight or a stressful game of chase the reluctant rabbit. I know they don't like what has to be done, but I also know it has to be done, so, once it's over, they get a treat, a brussing or something they enjoy. (treats, being brushed, getting to dig in the sand box, a few minutes playing chase the hand, etc...)

 

[Sage's mom]

I can clearly see that some of you are unwilling to part with aggressive training techniques. While I will never agree that these techniques are kind or helpful, I accept that some folks swear by them... Having said that, I think it bears repeating once more that I have seen remarkable progress in Sage's willingness to trust me, allow me to medicate him when needed, and give him his critical care porridge. Creating an atmosphere of trust and mutual respect is crucial. Ask yourself, "Am I doing this for my rabbit's health and well being or because I am too lazy and impatient to put in the time it takes to build a healthy relationship with my rabbit?" Also, sometimes a little game of chase gives him a good workout! Allowing Sage freedom, privacy, choices, combined with love and firmness when his health and wellbeing are at stake has resulted in a trusting, patient, loving little gentleman rabbit friend in our household.

 

[BlueMoods]

How is gently pushing a rabbit's head down to teach him he is to be submissive to you aggressive? Now swatting, yelling, etc... that's aggressive. But I suppose you wold see my teaching my wofdog to submit to me as aggressive as well when in reality, it's simply speaking the animal's language and helping the animal understand you (they don't speak English after all).

We aren't talking about slamming the rabbit's head down, just gentle pressure to make the rabbit lower its head, same as gentle pressure to make a wolfdog lay down and expose it's throat or belly in submission. Yes most of the time it's give and take with the animal but, sometimes we have to do things the animal is not going to like and, then the animal needs to know that it has to allow us to do that anyway and, not fight us, bite us or otherwise cause a struggle that could in fact injure us and/or the animal.

I know people who refuse to use any authority with animals, and the animals rule the house and, end up being given away or put down for biting, scratching, destroying items, etc... all because the owner did not teach the animal what was appropriate and what was expected of it in their home. Once the animal learns, it's a happy home for humans and animal alike, everyone knows what to expect and, what is expected of them and, yes the rabbits can learn not to chew whatever they want and go get their chew toys or sticks instead.