Advice on Marley?

[Boz]

Marley getting on my last nerves. No matter how nice I am or how much I ignore it Marley still grunts, lunges at me, scratches at me and yesterday she nipped me. :grumpy:

She does a lot of this in her cage but she does do it outside of it.

Don't get me wrong, she can be a sweetie (on rare occasions). She'll sit in my lap and let me hold her and I can pet her but if she's had enough she'll let me know with a grunt, kick, and run. When I go to feed her she ALWAYS grunts, grabs the cage bars and pushes at them or pulls at them. A few times she's scared me so bad I spill all her food all over the floor.

I think it's cage aggression? Territorial aggression?

Marley is a female French Lop. She just turned a year old last month. She's also not spay (yet). Anyone think that's why she's like that? Because she's not spayed? Do you think she'll calm down after she's spayed? She started doing this when she was about 3 to 4 months old and she really has not calmed down much at all.

Can anyone give me some advice?

 

[Flashy]

Yes, this sounds very typical hormonal behaviour and should ease when she is spayed. If it does not change, it means it is behavioural and then you can work on that, but the most likely cause is her hormones, so spaying her should sort it.

 

[Boz]

Thank you for the reply! It's reassuring to know that this could ease with being spayed. I'm figuring it is hormones because this started right about when she hit the "teenage" years.

 

[gentle giants]

LIke Flashy said, most does that are not spayed will act this way. Even after the spay, though, it will take a while for her to calm down, some of them can take months to settle. Get her spayed, and to help with the aggression right away, give her more free roam time. To much time in the cage will exagerate this behavior as well.

 

[Boz]

gentle giants wrote:

LIke Flashy said, most does that are not spayed will act this way. Even after the spay, though, it will take a while for her to calm down, some of them can take months to settle. Get her spayed, and to help with the aggression right away, give her more free roam time. To much time in the cage will exagerate this behavior as well.

Thank you very much for the advice! It will be very helpful!

I have another question.
Do you think if her cage is too big or small that it could effect her behavior?

 

[timetowaste]

Hi!

Just as a suggestion to you, if she is cage aggressive, why not try using a puppy pen as a "cage" for awhile. No cage....no cage protectiveness!

At least that's the general idea behind it, yeah?

Tracy

 

[pla725]

Neutering and Spaying and using a pen have worked wonders withall of my fosters and even my own rabbits.

 

[Boz]

I should correct myself.
She does not really have a cage. It's a huge pen. It's about 10 feet wide and 3 feet deep.

EDIT: Maybe I should switch her pen around a little? Or move her? (although that's harder then it sounds)

 

[gentle giants]

Well, the size of it shouldn't be a problem then, usually it's if the cage is too small that makes the problem worse. Does she actually bite you, or just bluff? She has learned that she gets a reaction from you when she acts this way, so you have to change your response. Anytime you reach into her space or anywhere that she tends to get aggressive, have a treat in your hand, and make sure the treat is the first thing she comes to.

Keep your voice low and soothing, don't jerk away from her or startle. If you are afraid of being bitten, you can wear gloves, and that will help youkeep fromjerking when she comes at you. Make sure all your movements are slow and calm. You can start working on this right away, and once she is spayed that will help even more. Just keep in mind that it does take some time for them to re-learn ingraned behaviors, and be patient with her. Good luck, and keep us posted on how she does with the spay and her behavior.

 

[Boz]

Thanks gentle giants.

She has bitten me before, but that was a while back. Just the other day though she nipped me. I did not bleed though. I think a lot of it might be bluffing. I usually don't leave my hand there long enough to find out. I think I'll get some gloves so I don't jerk.

I'll have to do some overtime sweet talking too. A lot of times when I give her a treat she grunts and pulls it away from me as I give it to her. It's like she's saying "It's about time you give me a treat!"

I'm not sure yet when she'll be getting spayed. Sometime soon I'm hoping!

 

[maikochopstix]

do you pet her regularly and hold her? i have had rabbits turn antisocial from not being held and pet for a while

 

[Flashy]

I agree completely with gentlegiants.

She may be picking up on your emotions and fear of her biting you (i.e. you feel anxious, and she picks up on that anxieyt and thinks there is a reason to be anxious and so attacks you because she thinks she should be scared), and that can lead to a perfectly normal hormonal behaviour to become a learned behaviour (for both of you). Gloves are a great idea. I personally went with bare hands for taming my vicious bun. Why? I think I'm stupid, but it worked, lol. I also used a 'dominance sock' as well which worked well with one of my hormonal girls and she learnt through that that no matter how much she attacked me I didn't move and she got a lot better. Most importantly remember to be calm whenever you go near her, be completely calm, talk in a soothing voice, move slowly too.

It might also be worth changing your routine with her because they get into a routine easily, like if you go into the room, give her her food, she charges at you and then you leave, she might think 'ok, person in room, nowI get my food, then i have to attack her so she goes away'. Obviously not in conscious thought but that will be the process and routine she gets into, so try and change the routine you have so things are in a different order to hopefully break the habit.

 

[Boz]

I pet her a lot. (although almost every time I do she grunts ) I do hold her too but not as often. I will open up her pen though and sit in front of it so she can sniff me investigate and possibly realize I'm just trying to be her friend. She acts calmer too then if I'm sitting there with the cage between us.
I always try to stay calm because I know they can read you like it's plastered on your forehead. I never thought of leaving the room though. I'm going to try that. Hopefully she'll learn that if she charges, I leave, and that means no food. Also, With changing the routine do you mean like feeding her at different times?
Oh and Flashy, what's a 'dominance sock'?

I feel really bad.

 

[Flashy]

Why do you feel bad?

In terms of changing the routine I mean not times, but how you do it. Like I always go out and do things in the same order with each bun and they act exactly the same way each day, so, for example, for Lightning, I go out, open his doors, he walks out and walks off (hes an outside bun and he walks across the top of his and other buns runs), so I put him back, then I give him food (to keep him there), and he eats, then I give him water, and then he walks out again, so I put him back andclose the door. then I open his bed door to put in some hay and out he comes again, so I put him back and close the door. then he goes back to eating. I open the run and the take out the old, used litter trays, and put in the new ones, he then comes down and runs around my feet. I get out, close the lid, replace all the weather proofing stuff and then go onto the next bun.

That happens the same EVERY day, but if I didn't want him to walk out of his hutch I would probably do the litter trays first to attract him downstairs away from the doors, then probably move the food downstairs too to, again, distract him from the doors, and, then do the water and upstairs hay whilst he was downstairs eating and smelling the new litter trays.

Does any of that make any sense?

As for a dominance sock, it was just my own creation and idea. I just used to put my hand in it slightly and approach her with it dangling. She used to launch at it, and then soon realised that biting and scrabbling it didn#t do anything, so over time I just gradually slid my hand in more and more and in time I could just put the hand in and get her out. She realised that attacking it did nothing, and so she stopped doing it (unless she was in a bad mood) and it wasn't cruel, or baiting her or anything, it just showed her that her actions ahd no effect, the same as gloves would, but in a different way. I also did other things like letting her out into a space she didnt see as hers and then going to her and she was fine then.

 

[Boz]

I feel bad because I feel like it's my fault. :? I don't know why. I just do.

And I know what you mean about changing things around. Usually I feed her her pellets, fill the water bowl, then give her hay. If it's evening then I give her her veggies after the pellets.
I might try that sock thing too. See how it works. I see what you mean how she'll realize that lunging at it does nothing.

And thank you a bunch Flashy for your help! It's really appreciated! :hug:

 

[Flashy]

I don't think this is your fault, this is just something that happens SO commonly in rabbits. It's how you deal with it that is important and it sounds like you want to make the situation better and that's all anyone can do

Do you intend to get her spayed?

 

[Boz]

Thanks Flashy! That makes me feel better.

I plan to get her spayed sometime soon. It's the financial part that's got me waiting. :?

 

[Flashy]

Fair doos. Have you got quotes or anything for spays in your area? If not, it might be worth doing, at least then you know what you are aiming for

 

[Boz]

Yeah I should do that. I haven't called around yet.

I just thought of something... Do you think that being literally 4 feet from my other two bunnies could cause her to be more aggressive?

I have a little story to tell. Today I was sitting with Marley's pen door open giving her veggies. And what she was doing was making me giggle. She would grab a piece of whatever I had, grunt, and run off into the corner, eat it, then run back to me and repeat. And when she runs it's more like a binky sort of run. Like she's pleased with herself. She's done this before. It's adorable watching her run back to me.

 

[Flashy]

She sounds very cute Even when she is spayed I bet she will stay strong willed and cheeky.

In terms of the other buns, it might be them being there, but I'm more inclined to think it's their smell on you that might be more likely to bother her (or the smell of any other animals if you have any others).