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DeepSeaGoddess

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Joined
Nov 2, 2008
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Location
Glen Allen, Virginia, USA
Hi All,

This morning my rabbit Ginger refuses to eat anything. Not even a pineapple chunk which she normally comes running for. I have given her 3 doses of mylecone now as in the past when this happened before, it seemed that gas was the cause and after a half hour or so, she'd be back to her normal self. She pooped a little bit that I saw and it looked normal. She just refuses to eat anything, hay, pellets, veggies, or treats. It is Sunday here in VA with a foot of snow on the ground. My rabbit vet is not open today...only option is emergency vet but, they are not as familiar with rabbits. Wondering what else I can do? I got up at 8:00, usually feed her and her buddy their veggies/pellets which they usually eat right away. It has been almost 2 hours and 3 doses of mylecone and she still won't eat. Should I try more? Any other ideas?



Thanks
 
Do you mean Mylicon/?

the product should only have simethicone in it

You should also give her a dose of a probiotic like benebac

You can syringe her pedialyte (baby electrolyte drink) and if you cannot getthat you can syringe plain water or flavor her water bowlwith a little juice so that she wil drink on her own.

You can give her gentle tummy massages and encourage her to exercise ( run around) to try to dispel and move through any gas bubbles.
if she is still pooping that is good
I would not give any more simethicone for at least 8 hours from the last dose.
keeping her hydrated is very important.
Also does she appear in pain or is she chilled
if her ears are cold and she appears uncomfortable you can fill a sock with rice and microwave the sock until it is warm and the warmth is evenly distributed through the sock ( make sure there are no hot spots )

place this in her area where she can sit beside it if she wishes but move away from it if she wishes also.
this may still be a difficult gas problem or beginning stasis...
 
HI, yeah, I meant mylicon. Haven't given her anymore just yet.

I did give her some water through a syringe just a little bit ago. She ate one or two small bites of parsley but, now won't eat any.

Ijust gave her some fresh pineapple juice through a syringe (from fresh pineapple).

Her ears are not cold and she doesn't seem to be in pain but, I did notice she got in the litter box once but nothing came out (that was about 20 minutes or so ago)....she looked to be trying. But, just a few minutes ago, she got in the litterboxand there definitely was poop after shegot outand it looked normal.

Still won't eatthough.

Going to try the pedialyte.....headed to the store to get some as soon as we can get the car cleared off.
 
You can also get a probiotic (benebac) in small tubes for small mammals or benebac in powder form (sometimes it is labeled fordogs and cats.) and that is OK

You don't want benebac for avian/birds

if you get the powder form you can dissolve the powder in pedalyte and give per syringe

The pineapple juice needs to be fresh juice from a fresh pineapple and not canned.
I would not give the benebac at the same time as the pineapple juice
 
Yeah, it is from a fresh pineapple. I just put some in her water bowl. She drank a little water on her own after that but, still will not eat.

I've been encouraging her to run around her room quite a bit. I tried to massage her belly but she doesn't want to be messed with there...of course, she never has liked to have her belly touched.

Think I should just stick to fresh pineapple juice?

I've never heard of benebac....where could I purchase that? You mentioned not giving her that with pineapple juice though?

I called all the emergency vets in this area and even a few hours away. None of them see rabbits. :( My normal vet is open tomorrow but I'm worried about waiting that long.
 
Benebac is a probiotic which replaces normal micoroorganisms into the gut of the animal and helps to establish normal gut flora.
it is sold at petco or petsmart.

I use this all the time when my rabbits either have gas, are not eating etc.
just use it a few hours apart from the pineapple juice

I don't know whether the acidity in the pineapple juice would affect the positive effect of the benebac.

This is natural stuff ..won't hurt the rabbit

Still use the pineapple juice but wait a few hours after giving a dose of benebac.
 
My boyfriend went to get pedialyte and benebac at Petsmart (hopefully they have it!) Going to try the benebac when he gets back.

She pooped a little again and has urinated twice....just still won't eat.
 
Just an update. Found an emergency vet in Fairfax, VA That has an exotic veterinary center that is open! We went ahead and brought here here as nothing was working and I didn't want to wait till tomorrow. They said she looks to be in excellent health right now after the initial exam. They are doing an x-Ray first...hopefully will know more after that. May have to leave her here......not sure yet. I hope not!!!! I hope they can figure out what it is!
 
Xray showed gas pockets and fluid in her stomach....inflated stomach and gas pockets. And she said GI stasis. They are keeping her and going to get her started with special force feedings (with high fiber) and fluids to get stuff moving. Going to also palpatate her stomach all night. They said it was some sort of powdery fluid high fiber mixture to get stuff moving. I have never dealt with this before...is she going to be ok?
 
They most likely will give her critical care which is a powdered formula used for herbivores. it is mixed with H2O and fed by syringe. They also will probably give her sub q fluids
She will most likely be fine..
 
Ok, so here is the latest update and now I am a bit baffled. The Exotic Dr. is in the office this morning and she just called. Ginger still hasn't eaten on her own but, is drinking water. They are treating the gas problem with laxatives, assisted feedings, medication, and anti-inflamatories.

But, she saw something in her exam this morning that has her a bit concerned. She said the way she was sitting with her head held up, her nostrils were doing a lot of work for her to breath. She examined her, her teeth look fine but, she said things were a bit darker in her mouth than they would like.

They want to do another x-ray to get a better view of her heart! They are concerned that we are dealing with heart disease!! :? The Dr. went over the x-ray with me yesterday and her lungs looked good and clear....no fluids. But, apparently it didn't show a good view of her heart. She wants to get another x-ray focusing on her heart and depending on what they see, possibly an ultrasound. I'm completely baffled! I mean, I'm doing it....what else can I do?

I had a cat with heart disease once. When he had labored breathing, there was a lot of fluid in his lungs that had caused it. After an echo cardiogram confirmed it, he was put on lasiks medication and other medication including a baby aspirin. He lived perfectly fine for about another year but, finally, I had to give up when the fluid build up couldn't be controlled. :(

I guess I"m baffled because her lungs were clear. Also, she is DEFINITELY stressed and being taken out of her home stresses her.....I would have assumed that and the GI issues caused her to work hard to breath? It didn't seem any abnormal to me when she was home....

They are also doing bloodwork which they expect to have the results back around noon today.

I'm baffled....anyone ever had this happen? And Heart Disease???

Also, how long does it normally take to get the gas cleared and things working again in her GI system?
 
Wow. In most cases, the bunny doesn't eat because of gas, but the gas is often just from 'something she ate' and can be broken down with Simethicone and tummy rubs (and some mild exercise). It can take up to 12 hours in my experience.

I won't take mine into the ER for 12 hours after they fail the treat test if they're only showing signs of gas (pressing the tummy against the floor, shifting around, etc.) and they're not too lethargic (beyond gas pain lethargic), they've had normal normal poops, not only because it's usually treatable at home, but also because the home environment gives me a better idea for diagnostics.

I can watch for straining to pee, breathing issues, wheezing, nose discharge, wet eyes, drooling, tiring earlier than usual, sleeping more, etc. without it being attributable to Vet stress.

How rabbit-savvy is this Vet? They're throwing absolutely everything at this bunny, I'm sure she's stressed.

If she was pooping and peeing normally and drinking, it was not 'stasis' and she's unlikely to be critical without other symptoms. This can lead to that so yes, you have to look closely for the cause.

Has she had any trouble chewing or has she had any changes in eating habits? How old is she? What breed? It all depends on symptoms (even slight ones), age, etc.. E.G. - Breathing issues could also stem from a tooth root problem -- more common in older bunnies -- so head x-rays are more usual. Visual exams of the teeth are not all that great. (Are they medicating her before the x-rays?)

I don't know about the 'laxatives', anti-inflammatories at all, I assume they're talking gut motility drugs and NSAID pain meds -- Reglan and Metacam. I personally would have given the fluids and fiber a chance to work.

The bloodwork is great, it can catch hidden issues, but IMO it's overkill until there's more symptoms than a pretty immediate loss of appetite.

A little observation will less stressful and an AWFUL lot cheaper. If her only real symptom is the loss of appetite, with all that, I'd lose mine, too.

Stress also lowers the immune system so its possibly that something that wasn't a problem before the vet visit becomes a problem.

If they're just in the dark and throwing everything they can at her, really not good for the rabbit and especially the wallet. :shock:

I guess this could go either way. They could be heroes for discovering a heart issue, or they could be running up a humongous bill for nothing. I'd ride 'shotgun' on these guys.


Good luck!



sas :clover:
 
Supposedly this vet is very reputable for rabbits: Eastern Exotic Veterinary Clinic in Fairfax, VA.

http://www.easternexoticvet.com/

I do not know her age as she showed up at my bird feeder in November 2008. It is very likely she is older. I know from what neighbors had told me about her that this deadbeat in my neighborhood had just put her outside...she apparently had been living outside for at least a year. I took her in, learned a TON about rabbits from a rabbit rescue lady AND this forum, got her spayed, and eventually bonded her with a bunny, Kanga who is neutered that I got from the rescue person. He, btw, is very much wondering where she is. :(

She has not had any other issues eating or chewing except for one day a few weeks back. Same symptoms but, with 2 doses of simethicone (mylicon) she turned around pretty quickly and was back to her normal self. but, I had had her for over a year and never had a problem until that one day and now yesterday.

Before I took her yesterday, she would just lay down, sometimes groom, sometimes sit up. A couple of times she went to the litter box and once, it did look like she was straining. She did poop a small amount and it was normal yesterday. When it went on for more than 4 hours with her refusing to eat, I didn't want to wait. I found the vet online and saw that they had an exotic section that did happen to be open.

Last night they monitored her all night and she didn't poop at all...nor did she eat...she'd only drink some water. But, she DEFINITELY does not like to be out of her room....I know the stress of that has to be attributing to some of this.

Well, I went ahead and did the x-ray and it did show that her heart is enlarged. :( They are going to do an ultrasound this afternoon. I feel like I should go ahead and do it...I know it is definitely not cheap...my bill already because of the emergency last night is $750! But, my animals are my family...I will do everything I can for them. (Thank God for plastic) I love her and fear the worst at this point. :(
 
Ok,just want to give an update. The bloodwork came back and her kidneys are functioning fine. However, some blood levels (white count) were elevated which makes her think there is an infection. She wants to go ahead and start her on lasix since her kidneys are functioning ok to hopefully make her more comfortable with her breathing. In addition, she wants to start her on an antibiotic for the infection. Heavy sigh. I'm wondering if the infection is the root cause of her GI issue?

She actually isn't on gut motility drugs yet as the Dr. wants her to poop before she gives her any drugs for this. Normal? I've never actually dealt with GI STasis before but she said it can take a few days to clear up!

They are still assist feeding her and giving her fluids. Still doing the ultrasound this afternoon but, I'm starting to get really discouraged (and sad...well I am already sad).

Their office is 1 1/2 hours from where I live but, we are driving up there this evening when I get off work to visit her.

Thanks you guys for letting me just talk about it here to others that understand as well as providing your advice. It helps!
 
The pointing her nose up to breathe is either a sign of lung issues or heart issues, so the vet did have that right. I agree that I personally would have let the fiber and such have more time to work before doing laxatives, etc, but perhaps the vet was worried because of some sounds from the heart they heard.

I would ask the vets what they can do for her with an enlarged heart. To be brutally honest, I have only heard of bunnies having it after it's too late to help--in post mortem exams they discover that's what the cause was. It does not make much sense for them to do a lot of diagnostics to tell you if she has an enlarged heart if there's nothing you can do for that. It's possible, however, that they want to do the ultrasound because there's another possible medical explanation for what's going on that they CAN fix.

If it's myocarditis, an infection around the heart, that could probably be treated with antibiotics, but to be honest I don't know of anything other than genetics, age/strain on the heart, or an infection that would cause an enlarged heart, and I'm not sure that infection could increase heart size. Strain due to arrhythmia probably could, so I guess they could put her on arrhythmia medicine.

I hope this doesn't sound callous, but I'm dealing with some similar stuff with a very elderly dwarf hamster. I could have them do ultrasound, which may not work due to her size, but it would tell me which organ exactly is enlarged (ovary or kidney/adrenal gland)/if it looks like cancer, cysts, etc. However, the only option to treat cancer is abdominal surgery, which I don't want to put a very old hamster through anyway, especially since few vets have done that kind of surgery on such a small animal. Therefore, we're trying medication to treat the other possible condition--cystic ovaries--because it's the only thing we could do. If this treatment doesn't work, we'll know it's something we can't treat without abdominal surgery and Petunia and I will go into hospice mode.

Similarly, depending on what your vet says of course, an ultrasound may not tell you much more about Ginger's heart or influence what kind of treatment to take. I would ask the vet what possible diseases could cause her heart to be enlarged, what they want to see with the ultrasound (is it to rule out any given disease?), and what could they see via ultrasound that they can't see via x-ray, will that will change their diagnosis/course of treatment? You can't do heart transplants on rabbits, so there's really no treatment if it's genetically enlarged or enlarged due to strain. You might put her on a daily aspirin regimen, I guess.

In any case, I don't want to sound mean at all, I hope that comes through. I hope the best for you, Ginger, and Kanga.
 
Thanks Tony...this actually does help me! When I hear back from her I'm going to ask what you suggest about what they expect to find out additionally from the ultrasound but I agree, it may not be much more than what we know now. :( So sad...hopefully it is just an infection causing it that is treatable....that is my hope now. I'm trying to be optimistic.

All the best to you too and Petunia! That is very sad too....it is so hard when they get ill.
 
Here's info from Kathy Smith's book...

http://www.lagomorphs.com/heart.pdf

And here's two stories about rabbits with heart disease. One of them wasn't showing symptoms and would not have been discovered without a vet appointment.

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/hearts.shtml

So again, it could go either way -- something stress-related or it's an issue that was developing and was caught very early.

But you can have a bacterial disease affecting the heart. The symptoms of this should have been showing before she stopped eating, I would think. Did she seem more tired than usual?

Rami from MediRabbit always recommends not separating a bonded pair because of stress. Here's one quote... "Separating a bonded pair is very stressful to rabbits, and stress means all kind of diseases that can develop, especially respiratory diseases."

Bacterial-related heart disease from stress? No clue.

Either way, while she has to stay in their care for diagnostics, I think she's better off at home in terms of feeding and medication regimes. But I'm no expert.

If you want a second opinion, Dana Krempels recommends that Vets consult with Dr. Susan Kelleher, who has treated a number of rabbits for heart issues. Her contact info is here:

http://www.exoticanimalcare.com/

Hope this helps!


sas :clover:
 
Well finally some good news! The ultrasound didn't show anything wrong with her heart! No abnormal rhythms or anything. The Dr. Still does not know what was the cause of what she saw on the xray. Now, just have together her thru this GI issue. Apparently they do not like to just give the gut motility medicine right away. She said they like to give the rabbit 24 -48 hours to clear it up with what they are doing now....assisted feedings, fluids and laxatives I guess. She said by tomorrow morning if she has not pooped or peed, they would have to male a decision on whether to just go ahead with giving it to her or not.....she mentioned trying an enema possibly! :O. For now though I am SO relieved that her heart is ok! We are on our way to visit her.
 
DeepSeaGoddess wrote:
Apparently they do not like to just give the gut motility medicine right away. She said they like to give the rabbit 24 -48 hours to clear it up with what they are doing now....assisted feedings, fluids and laxatives I guess.
Click to expand...

The no gut motility meds is the smartest thing I've heard from these guys. :) But I still question the 'laxatives'. If they're giving her some oil-based 'hairball' med, it could be coating the material in her gut and keeping it from getting hydrated and moving along on its own.

I'd honestly just get her out of there. You can feed and hydrate her at home. Rounds of Critical Care, simethicone and some Sub Q fluids is pretty much all they can and should be doing in terms of supportive care, and you can do that in less stressful (and expensive) surroundings.


sas :clover:
 
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