Why? How can my buns fight one minute and then lick one another the next!?

[jcottonl02]

While the dogs were out I decided it would be a nice quiet time to bring the rabbits inside for a few hours to let them have a run round our nice big living room. They always enjoy it, and plus they never fight when they are indoors so it'sa nice way to carry on with their bonding becuase I know they won't fight. So I put the tv on, cut up some veggies and put it in a bowl on the floor for them; a nice little luxury few hours- a massive room to run around in together and some yummy apple.

So about an hour later, I see this giant white ball rolling across the carpet.

:S

So I jump up screaming my head off and shove my whole arm into the middle of this ball and prise them apart, and with one hand each I just hold them both against the floor until they calm down- which they do.

I was so so angry at them. I picked Pippin up, checked him all over, and put him outside in the run. Same with Benji.

Then I look out the window a few minutes later and they are licking eachother through the partition!!!!!

How can they try and kill each other one minute and then lick eachother the next?? I am getting so confused with this whole thing. I've brought them in maybe 20 times and they have never fought inside. Why now?

It's getting better outside now. Before, when they were in the run together, Benji would attack after about 20 seconds (when Pippin's bottom was facing him) and now it is about 10 minutes. So it's getting better. But I am just so confused at this love- hate relationship.

Also, today for the first time I noticed Pippin attacking back- totally holding his own. Now should this be comforting, so maybe Benji will stop attacking if he thinks Pippin's not weak? Or does this mean that they will both just fight to the death, rather than one rabbit being chased by another?

It makes me so happy when I see them licking one another, sitting snuggled up together on the sofa etc. and I want to make it like this all the time. I know they love each other sometimes- they show it through the first time being brought inside together all they did was groom each other. And I know they have fun together becuase of the way they are together. They get excited to see each other when I put them in the run in the morning, by running towards the partition, sniffing and licking each other.

I know I keep going on about this bonding and I'm so sorry if its repetitive and annoying but I don't know anyone else I can ask.

Thanks

 

[Sarah8000]

 

[JadeIcing]

Sarah8000 wrote:

I'm not an expert on things like this but will offer my opinion from what i've read from the internet and other forums.

The reason they are probably fighting inside is because they are trying to assert dominance in a 'strange' area. If they are not inside all the time then they wont remember the smell of this room when brought back in, so they scrabble to show who's the boss in this room.

This the first time the have fought inside. So not sure that is the case. It could be a variety of things that caused this incident.

I dont think its a good idea bringing them in periodically, then putting them back outside. Firstly because of the temperature changes, and secondly, obviously because of the change of environment - especially if you are still going through the bonding process; they should be kept in one area until fully bonded - its liking taking one step forward and two steps back :?

It is very common for someone with outside buns to bring them in for bonding, or for someone with inside buns to take them outside. That is why it is netural territory. I do worry about the temperture change with the coming of winter.

Are they neutered as well?

Ditto. Are they?

 

[Sarah8000]

 

[JadeIcing]

Sarah8000 wrote:

I'm not an expert on things like this but will offer my opinion from what i've read from the internet and other forums.

Sarah8000 wrote:

I dont agree that they should be brought in and out whilst still bonding, they'll just be getting used to one territory before they are taken into another - where all smells are different.

It might still be the first time they have fought inside but this could be because as the bond is formed the dominance shows. I have seen this many times with buns.

Ok how many bonding experience do you have I am alittle confused?

Dominance will happenone way or another nothing is going to change that.


JCotton I was wondering are there hutches side by side and that is how they have contact outside?

If so I do something similar. My buns are in cages in my room. Near each other, I use the living room as their bonding area. Currently I divide the living room in half and Elvis is on one side and trio on the other.

Read some of this in my bonding blog. I have to update it in a few minutes. Alicia's Zoo Crew Bonding Journals

 

[Sarah8000]

 

[JadeIcing]

Ah makes sense now. From what you posted thought you had only read about it.One thing I tend to tell people is keep in mind every bunny is different and bonding is a guessing game.

Sarah8000 wrote:

JadeIcing wrote:

Sarah8000 wrote:

I'm not an expert on things like this but will offer my opinion from what i've read from the internet and other forums.

Sarah8000 wrote:

I dont agree that they should be brought in and out whilst still bonding, they'll just be getting used to one territory before they are taken into another - where all smells are different.

It might still be the first time they have fought inside but this could be because as the bond is formed the dominance shows. I have seen this many times with buns.

Ok how many bonding experience do you have I am alittle confused?

Dominance will happenone way or another nothing is going to change that.


JCotton I was wondering are there hutches side by side and that is how they have contact outside?

If so I do something similar. My buns are in cages in my room. Near each other, I use the living room as their bonding area. Currently I divide the living room in half and Elvis is on one side and trio on the other.

Read some of this in my bonding blog. I have to update it in a few minutes. Alicia's Zoo Crew Bonding Journals

Theres nothing to be confused about! I have helped bond friends bunnies which is why i have seen it alot, but i wouldnt say i'm an expert.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Why? How can my buns fight one minute and then lick one another the next!?

 

[NZminilops]

I've taken outside bunnies in to bond, and inside bunnies out. I find that if you are like me and the inside temp of your home isn't really any different to the outside (no heating or cooling here), then it works really well!

It gives them a whole new environment to sniff out and they tend to be so busy exploring that they forget to fight.


I'm sorry your buns faught, I'm not sure what advice to offer except don't give up. Maybe try a new room inside, and shorten the sessions to 20 minutes instead of an hour.

 

[Leaf]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

Why? How can my buns fight one minute and then lick one another the next!?

THAT is too funny! Where do people go to make pictures like that?

 

[jcottonl02]

Thank you so much for all your quick replies- they have been very helpful. I'll try and answer everything lol.
Yes they are both neutered, and have been neutered for a while.
We don't ever have the heating on in our house (obviously will do if it is absolutely freezing outside) so generally temperature change isnt too much of a problem. I do understand this though, and try and bring them inside in the mid-afternoon or middayish, so the temp outside is still pretty mellow.
Both hutches have been facing eachother, perhaps a metre away, for the last few months. Now they live in big hutches right next to eachother, and they are swapped every week when I clean out each hutch completely. They have a run with a partition in it, so every day they are in there for most of the day with one another.

The reason I bring them inside to do the bonding is becuase:
it is easier to keep an eye and separate them easily if something happens
they don't fight inside (apart from this one time, and i've been doing this months)
they are with eachother every day outside for hours and hours
inside is neutral territory for them- they have nothing in thier that is 'theirs'
I also like them to come inside with me alot, even if I'm just doing work while they are running round me etc. and so I find this a nice time to continue the bonding.

Most of the time they just snuggle up together or groom one another, or rub noses, which is why I think inside is a lovely place to build their relationship stronger and stronger.

Sarah8000- I'm not really sure what ur saying- sozzy little confuzzled. I don't really bring them in periodically- every day or every couple of days I bring them inside with me, whether to watch my fav tv programme (Prison Break used to be Benji's favourite, but......darn Sky1 nicking it) or just to work or just to play with them or give them time with the kittens and dogs.
And inside is where I bond them, really. Outside in the run I sometimes do but I think Benji feels its his territory there, I don't know why, so he tends to get miffed. I thought I would build a strong relationship inside, and occasionally introduce outside, so the strong relationship would help in that area.

Jadeicing- yes I completely agree with the temp change in winter. When it tends to get very cold outside I don't bring them in in the evenings because that is when it is really cold outside, and when it is very cold all the time, I just go outside to them, and sit with them outside. Of course, I keep their bedrooms completely filled with hay constantly when it's cold, so they have a nice little nest to cuddle up in.

As to the dominance thing- it was there from the complete very beginning. I know that inside is more neutral than outside, becuase benji will attack outside but not inside. Benji was much more dominant and aggressive a month ago- now he's much less so. It's decreasing slowly, and I know I am having little set-backs with fights such as this- but in general it is getting better, I believe, but I am no expert with bunny bonding.

NZminilops- thanks- that sounds like a good idea. I've shortened their sessions in the run togther to maybe 10 minutes now, so they don't fight in that time and then remember that nice time together for next time, rather than ending on a bad note, and that's what they remember next time. Although it's got better- it used to be maybe 10seconds before Benji attacked in the run- now its 10 minutes.
I agree with the whole new environment so they forget to fight- I usually distract them with a big chunk of food too- so if they want the food, they have to eat it side by side and not fight lol- nice little trick.

What i also need to know is: are they trying to kill each other? There was no blood- but lots of fur. There was no scratches either. And they licked each other 5 minutes later. Or are they just having a tiff?

Also- will adding a third bunny help? Now this sounds really offhand- oh i'll just 'add' a third bunny. Its not like that at all. If that has a good chance of working, then I may consider it, and if it doesnt, then I can bond this new bun with Pippin (who isnt dominant) and benji can live alone- if that's what he wants, which might be the case. Is this a good idea to consider?

Thanks so much for your replies- I hope mine isn't too confusing and helps you guys.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Leaf wrote:

THAT is too funny! Where do people go to make pictures like that?

Don't know but I found that on the ICANCHEEZEBURGER thingy. Those pics are hilarious.

It just came to mind about fighting and then licking and loving.... LOL!

 

[jcottonl02]

Lol Bo B bunny that pic reminds me so much of the kittens with the rabbits. And the puppies with the rabbits come to that. It's very cute.

So does anyone know the answer to my last two questions? They are quite a bit of a puzzler, that I can't work out:

Are they trying to kill or realy hurt each other? Or just having a tiff? If they are trying to kill each other or really hurt each otherthen why did they lick each other afterwards?

Will adding a third bunny help?



Thankies

 

[MsBinky]

Are they used to the dogs? I have heard of bunnies fighting when new scents are introduced. I know Wiggles and Bam-Bam fight when another bunny comes around but I am not sure if it's the same with other animals.

Anyone know?

 

[jcottonl02]

Thats an idea.......not one I've actually thought of.
Well they have known the dogs for months now. They've always been inside when the dogs have been inside and never fought, so I'm not sure that would be the reason. The dogs were actually out this time. The puppies have actually grown up with the buns so.......even though they get very excited when the buns come in and want to constantly lick them, which the buns seem to enjoy lol, they are def used to them.
Maybe that is the reason though? Anyone know?
Thanks