Vitamin D / UV Light / Sunlight

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Yes, my vet has lights that he sells. I bought one. He says he knows of people doing a study of bunnies and they were trying to figure out why inside bunnies had worst teeth than outside bunnies. And.. it was because of the light(sun). So, He recommends keeping lights on the bunnies for so long a day. I can't remember for how long. I was doing it when the bunnies were bonded, but when I had seperated them, i quit, cause I only have one light. I'll start again when I rebond them, after their fixed.



Haven't heard of the bladder thing.
 
I hope you post anything else you find out. This is very interesting and I appreciate you posting it here.

I have a bun with chronic sludge and stones. I take her to the vet every month. I will ask my vet about this next time we go in about 3 weeks. My vet is pretty good but has never mentioned lamps or sunlight.
 
I've always heard that it was more beneficial to just go outside for five-ten minutes than worry about UV lights. I remember reading something about it for turtles, that an outdoor turtle with get more beneficial rays outside on the average day for five minutes than an indoor turtle will get in a full day of being under a lamp. Same with people, last I heard you needed to go outside for a grand total of five-ten minutes towards the end of the day with a t-shirt and pants on to get what you need.

I'm not sure how much vitamin D was added to the diet for these statistics though, and it's been awhile since I had read anything about it so that may not even be true anymore.

I can understand it not being worth it for cooler areas or places with a lot of rabbits, but it's rather interesting that the sun is that strong even from so far away!
 
We have over 80 rabbits as well as other critters, so it's not practical for us to take them out.

Pam
 
Bill, those are questions I have spoken to my vet about several times. I always get the answer that they really don't know, there just isn't enough information. My vet has said that with siblings one can have a calcium problem and the other is fine. Or an owner can have several rabbits, feed them the same diet and one rabbit will have a calcium problem and the others will be fine.

My rabbit, Chase has had 2 bladder stones. The first stone was sent to the lab and came back 100% calcium. So I know that is my buns problem. I know that vets can take a urine sample. I wonder if they could test your buns urine to see the calcium content of it. The only problem with that is that calcium tends to sit in the bottom of the bladder so when they aspirate the urine, they may not be getting a true sample. I am not sure though. I know my bun has had urine cultures come back normal with calcium content.
 
I am also interested in knowing more about this.
I have a tortoise, and keep a UV light on her. I wasn't able to take her outside when I was in an apartment, as they used a lawn service. Her UV light also provides heat, so she basks under it during the day anyway.

I'm also wary about taking my bunnies outside, as the climate is very extreme where I am. There are only a small percentage of days that would be suitable for taking them outside.

But if putting a UV light in their room would be beneficial, I would certainly do that. I wonder, though, would it have to be a certain distance from them to be beneficial? I know for my tortoise, the recommendation is that the bulb should be no more than a foot (?I think, it's been a long time since I looked it up) above the top of the shell to actually provide enough UV to be useful.
 
This is very interesting...and something I have been preaching for quite a while. We see a lot of metabolic problems in wildlife that are hand raised in rehabbed. Metabolic Bone Disease (and the term is a bit inaccurate) is something we commonly see in squirrels, opossums, turtlesand birds....but it also happens in rabbits. We have been doing Vit D supplements here for years. There are two ways to get this vitamin....unfiltered sunlight or supplements. Unfiltered sunlight means just that....plain old being outside in the sun. Most all of the glass used in homes are filtered to prevent sun damage to the interior of the house. Window screens also dilute the rays. You can create artificial sunlight by using "solar simulators" (the new term for what us old people called sun lamps). The correct broad spectrum lamps are not cheap and do have a limited life span for concentrated spectrums. Many reptile and reef aquarium keepers used these simulators....and they are used in human light therapy mainly for a type of depression.

Metabolic Bone Disease does have a severely negative effect on many systems in any animal afflicted. In squirrels, we often see very brittle bones that fracture when they miss a jump. It usually results in a spinal fracture and paralysis...and there is only one human resolution to that. And an adult squirrel in this condition can be very dangerous....and is very capable of severing a child's finger. In squirrels, the cause of MBD is usually the result of an untrained person feeding a combination if improper formula along with seeds and nuts. Squirrels are also prone to deformities and seizures. Opossums will be very weak and bony...unable to climb. In opossums, again the primary cause is improper diet early in life. Many people, unfortunately even licensed rehabbers, tend to try to convert ops to solid food far too young. And birds....it is devastating and extremely painful. Again, diet is the primary factor. We have a bird now that has MBD and was fed bread and water in it's early life....never will be released. In birds, splay legs and swollen, very painful joints are the usual presentations. In turtles, the most common presentation is low weight along with a deforemed shell. The shape of the shell naturally provideds a "roll-over"...if the turtle flips, it's shell will help it right itself. With MBD, the shell has an unnatural dip which restricts the turtle's ability to right itself.

It is generally considered that approx. 20 mins of sunlight a day is sufficient. Offering supplemental Vitamin D (along with Phosphorus) is still truly a work in process. We also administer calcium injections for MBD....but they are very painful.

Randy
 
ra7751 wrote:
This is very interesting...and something I have been preaching for quite a while. We see a lot of metabolic problems in wildlife that are hand raised in rehabbed. Metabolic Bone Disease (and the term is a bit inaccurate) is something we commonly see in squirrels, opossums, turtlesand birds....but it also happens in rabbits. We have been doing Vit D supplements here for years. There are two ways to get this vitamin....unfiltered sunlight or supplements. Unfiltered sunlight means just that....plain old being outside in the sun. Most all of the glass used in homes are filtered to prevent sun damage to the interior of the house. Window screens also dilute the rays. You can create artificial sunlight by using "solar simulators" (the new term for what us old people called sun lamps). The correct broad spectrum lamps are not cheap and do have a limited life span for concentrated spectrums. Many reptile and reef aquarium keepers used these simulators....and they are used in human light therapy mainly for a type of depression.

Metabolic Bone Disease does have a severely negative effect on many systems in any animal afflicted. In squirrels, we often see very brittle bones that fracture when they miss a jump. It usually results in a spinal fracture and paralysis...and there is only one human resolution to that. And an adult squirrel in this condition can be very dangerous....and is very capable of severing a child's finger. In squirrels, the cause of MBD is usually the result of an untrained person feeding a combination if improper formula along with seeds and nuts. Squirrels are also prone to deformities and seizures. Opossums will be very weak and bony...unable to climb. In opossums, again the primary cause is improper diet early in life. Many people, unfortunately even licensed rehabbers, tend to try to convert ops to solid food far too young. And birds....it is devastating and extremely painful. Again, diet is the primary factor. We have a bird now that has MBD and was fed bread and water in it's early life....never will be released. In birds, splay legs and swollen, very painful joints are the usual presentations. In turtles, the most common presentation is low weight along with a deforemed shell. The shape of the shell naturally provideds a "roll-over"...if the turtle flips, it's shell will help it right itself. With MBD, the shell has an unnatural dip which restricts the turtle's ability to right itself.

It is generally considered that approx. 20 mins of sunlight a day is sufficient. Offering supplemental Vitamin D (along with Phosphorus) is still truly a work in process. We also administer calcium injections for MBD....but they are very painful.

Randy
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i like this subject,,,my rehab/facility is a solarium-16 windows,but they are shielded during bright sun light,,unshielded on cloudy days.,,one-of-two fixtures inside has sunlight tubes,..sunlight has been at the forefront of concerns as it would seem to be important necessity of/for life-sort of a (photosynthesis)-,sincerely james [email protected] :p
 
sludge,excess calcium//bladder infections,,hi.randy,,i am conducting a study-,is it possible the sludge/calcium build up in a rabbits bladder,-could possibly be linked to a lack of sunlight//-environmental factors.//one can control calcium intake through diet,,but the rabbit still has to eat..ie timothy/orchard(hay)-and pellets-for-vitamins/nutrition,and,lots of water to stay healthy,,your thoughts much appreciated,..,sincerely james waller:)
 
I love this thread, it has so much great information. This may seem like a stupid question but do rabbits get vitamin D at all from regular light from your bulbs in your house?

My buns are in the basement so they don't get a ton of sunlight. This maybe far out there but Chase's calcium issues started about 2 years after I moved to my condo where she lives in the basement. Before that she lived in my bedroom where she probably got more sunlight. I do let Chase out but she usually goes upstairs and hangs out under the bed so she still isn't getting any sunlight.

I don't feel comfortable using the UV light bulbs. Chase isn't in a cage so I am afraid she could get to them and burn herself or she would never lay close enough to it.

I am also curious as Bill posted to possible vitamin D supplements. Chase gets blood work once every 1-2 months to check her potassium. I wonder if vitamin D is checked then to. It would be nice to know if her levels are normal.

I agree with James, there is only so much you can do to control calcium intake. If you are giving your rabbit low calcium food and they still have calcium issues, what are additional options. Sub q's didn't help at all. The lasix and soaking the veggies has helped. All different types of lab tests have been run, including urine cultures and cultures of the stones. After her second stone, I took her in to get her stitches removed 7-10 days later and sludge was already forming.

ETA: Are there foods high in vitamin D that we can give buns that don't get a lot of sunlight? I tried to do a search but couldn't come up with anything that a bunny could eat. Most of it was fish, milk or cereal.
 
billinjax wrote:
Hi Amy,

I checked with my vet. They told me that they don't (or can't?) check for Vitamin D in the standard blood work.

Standard light bulbs will not produce UVA or UVB. I believe, and this requires some fact checking, that UV-B is what we need for Vitamin D. I found a bulb at the pet store that can radiate UVB. I agree with you and would only feel comfortable putting it far away, which may minimize the benefit. I also believe that most of our standard windows will block UV rays.

My vet didn't seem to have an opinion on connecting a lack of Vitamin D to bladder sludge or teeth issues. However, she firmly believes that rabbits need sunlight and Vitamin D.

From what I can tell, I can't find any supplements designed for rabbits or vegetables that can provide Vitamin D. I believe pellets do provide this vitamin.

I am plan on revisiting this big time when I get through my short term crisis with Jack's bladder sludge. One unfortunate reality that benefits us is that rabbits and more so mice/rats are often used for testing like this. I really wish this wasn't the case but I have already found some data on Vitamin D testing. I'll post links I found and references to books/texts that I find. I've already purchased the Textbook of Rabbit Medicine. It was expensive but covers the biology of rabbits nicely.

We really need a poll that asks rabbit owners with calcium related illnesses (bladder / teeth) if they provide direct sunlight for their rabbits.

Bill
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i am of the belief(sunlight)is a life giving force,,i believe well intended people have obviously overlooked this,,there are fluorescent tubes/bulbs which project the necessary sun rays(-color-spectrum)--the heat ray penetrates glass creating a green house effect,,reflecting the uv rays/this is why one fixture inside has sunlight tubes,,i sure don,t think it would cost too much to carry out this idea/theory--which could not hurt,,..any comments are welcome,,sincerely james waller:biggrin2:
 
If you can't put your buns out in the yard, and they're indoor buns, help them up on to a windowsill, buns do love to sunbathe.
 
One thought on light coming thru window panes....while is warming and feels good....at least here in the US all commercial glass produced for homes or carsistinted either blue or green (filtered) and do not allow the beneficial rays thre (even a screen will filter these rays). These beneficial rays are filtered because they have a "bleaching" effect and will cause dyes and paints to fade.

Randy
 
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