Us Against Them

[RaspberrySwirl]

I did some surfingearlier thinking perhaps I would find some other places as fun andfriendly to learn about rabbits as our own great forum.

One of the things I love about the Rabbits.com forum is the greatvariety of people we have here. Young and old. Men and women. Newowners and experienced owners. Breeders and pet owners. Still, withthis mixture we have a cohesiveness that I believe is uncommon.

We have supported each other through more than just rabbit issues. Wehave gone through career changes, hurricanes, broken hearts, illness,death…. I bring these things up because I believe it is this closenessthat keeps our forum interesting and quick moving.

A quick check on other rabbit forums shows a much slower pace of postsand lower new member sign ups. Perhaps it is for these reasons thatmembers from other forums have begun to migrate our way and test ourwaters.

I feel like we do our very best to welcome new members with open arms.Naturally it's difficult to notice everyone, but we do try.

I recently welcomed someone (I'm going to keep names out of thisbecause I intend to try to make a point, not a personal attack) thisperson is obviously very knowledgeable and well educated in rabbits. Inmy opinion you can't ask for a better scenario than to have people whodeeply love their pets, are truly committed to them, and are willing toask for the direction and advice of someone who is far more educatedthan themselves. So, I think it's wonderful when we have new memberswho are breeders, judges, veterinarian assistants, and so forth joinour forum.

What I find repulsive is when people join our forum, are warmlywelcomed, included and trusted and then return to their other forums todiscuss how they refuse to sell rabbits to pet owners. That becausesome rabbits turn up in shelters, no rabbits should be sold to petowners. This persons answer is to not sell ANY rabbits to pet ownersand to get rid of all extra rabbits by donating them to the wildlifecenter for research and raptor food.

BEFORE anyone gets in an uproar about that…. That is another topic. Butrabbits were a food source long before they were pets. The humanekilling of a rabbit for research or food is a far better end than thatwhich some come to in a back yard hutch.

Onward…. I think breeders have a tremendous value and I believe thosethat disagree are ignorant of the facts. They have extensive knowledgeof health issues, breeding, genetics, etc. Pet owners can be verydedicated, loyal and knowledgeable as well. Why does it always have tobe us against them? Why can't pet owners and breeders exist togetherand bring to the table good things from both sides that would benefiteveryone?

What I'm angry about is this; it seems to me that we on this particularforum are a group of reasonable, non-judgmental, and fair people. We'realso smart. If you're searching for a friendly environment and a fastpaced atmosphere, you'll find it. If you befriend us, then runelsewhere and stab us in the back, we'll find you.

RaspberrySwirl

 

[m.e.]

*nods* Good Word

 

[BunnyMommy]

Very well written post, Raspberry. I echo all of your sentiments.

VERY WELL SAID.

 

[Carolyn]

*Standing Ovation*

Bravo! BRAVO!! -- To you and Buck Jones.

This is what Buck Jones reply was:

Seems to me there is room for breeders and pet owners, both, inthe rabbit fancying world. I get annoyed with the superciliousattitude(s) expressed here, and on some of the pet oriented forums inthat "they" have the only acceptable and logical manner to approach allaspects of rabbit husbandy. If we all like rabbits, none of that shouldmatter.

While I have found that breeders are often more knowledgeable regardinggenetics, breeding, medical care and raising rabbits, they are oftennot as knowledgeable regarding rabbit social behaviors, nor thegeriatric aspects of keeping rabbits until the natural conclusion oftheir lives. My own modest studies or rabbit nutrition also suggeststhat a "good" diet for rabbits should include some natural vegetation,instead of the exclusive pellet diet often recommended by breeders, forexample.

The danger, in my estimation, of taking such a superior stance on thepart of either faction, is that it insulates one's self from any validinformation the other side might have accrued, because what could theypossibly tell me of that would be of any value? One becomes a sort ofrabbit cultural "redneck," with all the stigmatism that name implies.

We can all stand to learn from one another, even if we don'tparticularly enjoy the technical terminology and jargon oranthropomorphism one side, or the other, promulgates. All we need do isbe civil and not belittle that other side's philosophy and maybe we allcould learn something.

For the record, I am the owner of six pet rabbits, four of which areoutside rabbits and two that are house rabbits. All my rabbits areafforded the opportunity to free range and are bonded couples, contraryto most breeder AND pet owner proclivitiesl

JMHO
_________________
Buck

 

[Sarah]

Well done RaspberrySwirl. I agree completely.

 

[Buck Jones]

Yeah, well, it's their loss, if they leave andbad mouth people here. I think the "numbers" Raspberrymentioned says it all. The open attitude here encourages allrabbit fanciers and that reflects in the number of membersjoined and topics posted since March 2004: whichare quite impressive and have surpassed those of many of themore "older" and narrowly oriented Internet sites.

We don't have "tudes" here, other than we don't promulgate attitudesfrom anyone or any particular philosophical approach to rabbithusbandry. I'm here to learn from whomever can teach me andI'll give back whatever I am capable of giving. It is afamily atmosphere that reigns here and not the supercilious oneprevalent in many other nationally recognized sites.

As Popeye used to say, "I yam what I yam, and that's Popeye the sailorman!" Got something bad to say about that, please do go tosome other site and spew your venom and acrimonious sense ofsuperiority there, where it is more apt to be appreciated by otherssimilar to yourself. Good bye, and good riddance!

Buck

 

[Carolyn]

It was said in the post the rabbit had Pasteurella, but the rabbit mostcertainly did not. Same rabbit is fine and happy today, living a veryfull and healthy life.

The Fool spoke with misinformation and lack of follow-through. (As per usual.)


*giggles*


Get your facts straight.


"Hyprocrit: Move On."



-Carolyn

 

[BunnyMommy]

Buck Jones wrote:

Good bye, and good riddance!

Buck

 

[Carolyn]

You've got that right, Buck and BunnyMommy.

-Carolyn

 

[Gabby]

I have always found that this particular group of rabbit people. Forthe most part is open minded and easy going, realizing that there aremore than one way to live with a rabbit. And that we all come fromdifferent experiences, backgrounds and such. but one reason Idon't visit rabbit groups much are those few who I feel are "gods intheir own mind" How could They possible learn anything from someone"inferior" to themselves.

There are good guys out there, ones who realize, good infocan be learned from everybody, from the old timer, to the newbie, fromthe pet person to the breeder, to the rescuer. Even a child can teachus something if we take the time to listen and pay attention.
However I do think way to many are too narrow minded, as"their way is the only way" or that "the other group is evil, and howcould they, think, do, behave or dream up such a thought" As long as itis different from the other's point of view there is someone there tobash. Breeders claim they get bashed all the time, and pet people claimthey get bashed all the time, but in truth both sides deal some heavybashes.

I sit on neither side, because I don't think either side is fullyright. I think those who look down apon the opposite group,should leave that group be, and go mingle with their "own kind." Afterall if they only look down their noses at that group, why are they evenbothering to hang out with those people? Do they hope to shed somelight on some "unfortunate, mislead soles?" or maybe They are just sobored with their own lives that they have nothing better to do thanhang around a group of people so they can then go talk laugh and pokefun at them with other people. Either which way it's a sad case, andneither side is inneed of saving except to save themselves.or maybe from themselves.

 

[Buck Jones]

Gabby wrote:

Either...way it's a sad case, and neither side is in needof saving except to save themselves.....from themselves.

Paraphrasing your parting comment a bit, but I think it sums up the situation most succinctly.

Buck

 

[Gabby]

Buck Jones wrote:

Gabby wrote:

Either...wayit's a sad case, and neither side is in need of saving except to savethemselves.....from themselves.

Paraphrasing your parting comment a bit, but I think it sums up the situation most succinctly.

Buck

?that's quite ok buck. i truely think you are one the kindred spirits in this world

 

[Carolyn]

AAAAAAAAAmen!

-Carolyn

 

[BunnyMommy]

Gabby wrote:

I have always found that this particular group of rabbit people. Forthe most part is open minded and easy going, realizing that there aremore than one way to live with a rabbit. And that we all come fromdifferent experiences, backgrounds and such. but one reason Idon't visit rabbit groups much are those few who I feel are "gods intheir own mind" How could They possible learn anything from someone"inferior" to themselves.

There are good guys out there, ones who realize, good infocan be learned from everybody, from the old timer, to the newbie, fromthe pet person to the breeder, to the rescuer. Even a child can teachus something if we take the time to listen and pay attention.
However I do think way to many are too narrow minded, as"their way is the only way" or that "the other group is evil, and howcould they, think, do, behave or dream up such a thought" As long as itis different from the other's point of view there is someone there tobash. Breeders claim they get bashed all the time, and pet people claimthey get bashed all the time, but in truth both sides deal some heavybashes.

I sit on neither side, because I don't think either side is fullyright. I think those who look down apon the opposite group,should leave that group be, and go mingle with their "own kind." Afterall if they only look down their noses at that group, why are they evenbothering to hang out with those people? Do they hope to shed somelight on some "unfortunate, mislead soles?" or maybe They are just sobored with their own lives that they have nothing better to do thanhang around a group of people so they can then go talk laugh and pokefun at them with other people. Either which way it's a sad case, andneither side is inneed of saving except to save themselves.or maybe from themselves.

:shock::shock::shock:... I'm just wondering if I could have said this any better ... :dude:

 

[Carolyn]

BuckJones and Gabby

* * * RULE * * *

No question about it.

-Carolyn

 

[Gabby]

***blushing...and fainting****

 

[rabbitgirl]

sorry folks....but I do believe I missed something? Did something happen?

out of step, that's me....

Rose

 

[RaspberrySwirl]

Gabby you haveperfectly summed up what I was trying to say. I have always been openminded in all walks of life. I do not feel like I am a judgmentalperson until or unless I witness a cruelty or prejudice....for the mostpart. This whole breeder vs. pet owner thing has me baffled.Particularly because I respect so many of them and then feel like anidiot when I find out they secretly despise my kind.....Oh, I could goon and on....Anyway, well said.

You too Buck....As always....

 

[SunnieBunnie Rabbitry]

I would like to giveRaspberrySwirl and the others (you know who you are) my deepestgratitude for not naming names... and openly posting your opinions andpoint of views. I deeply respect you and youropinions.



Please bare with me... this one's going to be long :?...

I am aware of the thread that was mentioned inthe opening post. One thing I would like to point out firstoff is I do belong to a WIDE variety of Rabbit forums, mainly for thepurpose of self education... I love and enjoy each and every one ofthem. Granted, each is driven to a particular genre, be itmore oriented to Pets, Breeding, Showing, Rescue, and other "versatile"uses. Thethings I have learnedin each ofthese forums I consider invaluable - priceless.

I was not the one who started the thread, andnever will I ever "take sides as breeder vs. pet owner" as I amBOTH. Aside from my breeding / show stock ofMini Rex, I have aMixed breed pet rabbit named Panda - she'sa Dutch Lop... and gets the extra special attention - she has a Hutchoutside as well as being the ONLY ONE who gets to come inside and justchill / be a rabbit / get free roam of the house. We wouldn'ttrade her for the world (and sorry bunny nappers...lol... she'sMINE!)

However I was the one who posted that I do notsell rabbits as pets ---- BEFORE anyone starts jumping all over me onthis,please give me a chance to explain... Firstoff,I'll copy the postfor everyone else toread,I would like everyone to notice that I HAVE DONE MYRESEARCH... there is an over population ofrabbits in my area,the shelters here are overcrowded with them and the pet stores areoverflowing with even more.... on average you'll find 20 rabbits perpet store waiting for homes. Yes, I breedrabbitsfor showing purposes, however not all rabbits producedare show quality, or evenbreedingquality within myherd. I post rabbits that I don't "need" for sale on mywebsite... I give the opportunity for whoever may need that rabbit intheir breeding / show program to purchase those rabbits before theyhead out. I personally feel that I won't be helping the petstores and shelters if I send the rabbits there... so instead, I donatethem to my local Wildlife rehab centers. In my post, when Imention Wildlife or Raptor Rehab and Research... it's not Research likewhat's done in labs and such... OH NO, Never!!!... it's therehab and research of endangered species... conservationresearch. It is a well known fact that these conservationprograms and rehab centers are severely under funded and are barelyable to make ends meet... they rely on every donation they can possiblyget.

I'm deeply sorry if my opinions differ greatlythan yours, but in my situation and in my honest opinion, I personallyfeel like I'm helping out the best way I know how in two worlds -Wildlife rehabilitation as well as not increasing the over abundanceofrabbits in my local pet stores and shelters.

With that said, this was my response to someoneelse's post - again, I deeply apologize if it offendsanyone.

There are other outlets for rabbits besides Pet Homes.... Even for the smallest ND.

Pretty much everyone knows where I stand on this, but for those thatdon't - I refuse to sell any rabbits from my barn as "pets". Why?Because in my general area, there are at least 4 other breeders thatI'm aware of who are selling to Pet Stores and I've been noticing (overthe last 10 yrs especially) an increase in Rabbits at the 2 Localshelters. (I frequent the shelters just to take a look - I had lost adog a few years back, though I don't want her there, sometimes I hopeto find her.) So, the main reason I don't sell pet rabbits is in casefor some unforeseen reason the rabbit ends up in the shelter -Ultimately I'm responsible because I bred and sold the rabbit as a pet.

So instead - I sell to other breeders, and the one's that don't getbought (and that I don't need to keep) get donated to my local NatureCenter, Raptor Rescue & Research, Zoo, Wild Animal Park, andWildlife Rehab centers. I feel that my unneeded rabbits can at leastcontribute to a good cause. When I weigh the factors of what's a goodcause, contributing to Wildlife rehab and research out weighs a pethome.

I'm with*Name edited for privacy*and many others on this one.
_________________
Sunshine S. Patron
SunnieBunnie Rabbitry
Mini Rex rabbits in Lynx, Chocolate, REW, and Lilac.
http://www.SunnieBunnieRabbitry.com
No portion of this post is to be quoted or copied with out my expressed written consent.

 

[RaspberrySwirl]

SunnieBunnie, Irespect that you came forward and replied to this thread. I for one wasinsulted and angry at what I had read into your post on the other siteabout pet owners. I should clarify that. Not just what you said butthat you seemed to be in agreement with so many asses that were alongfor the ride on that particular thread. Understanding of course thatyou can not be held responsible for what other people say. I took it tomean that you felt that "pet owners" weren't responsible/capable ofcaring for a rabbit and therefore you would refuse to sell them toanyone other than a breeder. I would like to say that I do understandand happen to agree with your opinion of pet stores. I used to breeddogs and I refused to sell any of my puppies to pet stores. Perhaps itis because I have been an animal breeder that this entire "us againstthem" thing makes me so mad. I saw first hand that breeders are notGods. I also saw that there were plenty of pet owners that were goodpeople.

This is a place to share a love ofrabbits. A place to learn, to make friends, to do some silly thingsthat a lot of "serious" rabbit people would probably find quitedegrading. The formula seems to be working. It's a good group ofpeople. I was sincere when I welcomed you to our forum. I hope themisunderstanding was an honest one. Consider the olive branchextended.

RaspberrySwirl