urinary infection?? help!

[sarah92]

I took Benjamin and Nudge to the vet yesterday to be vaccinated, while there I showed the vet that nudge had urine burn and lost ALL the hair on his inner legs.
The vet assured me it would just have been from sitting in his litter box and the heat irritating the skin..

He told me to use Aloveen conditioner (meant for dogs) to ease the soreness.

I noticed Nudge was arching his back funny today while peeing several times and he was doing little pees over and over as if it was painful to do the whole thing.

I turned him over and his penis area (sorry if that's not correct way to say it) is red and swollen.
I am really concerned but the vets are already closed. I can't take him to the vet to tomorrow until the afternoon because I have to transfer some rescue rats to melbourne :/

does it sound like an infection? what can I do in the mean time to help?
this has never happened to nudge before, his never got urine burn and rarely gets his bum dirty which is also happening.. so I thought something was up and now I'm annoyed I didn't question the vet more!

by the way nudge is neutered if that makes a difference.

 

[JBun]

First of all, find a different vet if you can. The vet should have listened to your concerns and checked your rabbit. It's not normal for a rabbit kept in a clean environment, to suddenly have problems with a dirty bottom.

The straining does indicate some sort of problem. It could be a UTI, or maybe bladder sludge.
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/urinary.html

I don't know that I would use that conditioner. I don't know whether or not it is safe to use on rabbits. Some dog and cat products aren't. You can take a look at this link. It gives instructions for butt bathing, as well as rabbit safe products that can be applied to the skin.
http://www.disabledrabbits.com/baths--cleaning.html

Unless the vet gave you pain meds(eg. metacam) for him, I don't know that there is much else that can be done til his appointment, besides ensuring that he continues to eat and drink normally. He should be fine for one more day, but if he stops eating you need to get him to a vet.

 

[Sweetie]

You could try cranberries. They are good for UTI, if that is what it is. Doesn't hurt to try either way. I have a cat that I thought had a UTI, I bought some food that had cranberries in it because I heard that cranberries helped with UTI. Made an appointment with the vet and found out my cat did not have a UTI.

Back on topic though, I would try cranberries as they may help your bunny with the possible UTI. I hope your bunny feels better soon. Sorry haven't had a bunny with a UTI, only a cat.

 

[Imbrium]

The cranberries may or may not help in this situation, but (unless your bunn is super sensitive to sugars) they certainly won't do any harm in moderation and bunnies LOVE cranberries! They can be good for UTIs, at least in humans - my college roommate was prone to them and found cranberry juice very helpful. You can actually buy fresh cranberries in many grocery stores (and in the grocery area of Walmart, at least in Houston) - they usually come in a 1 lb bag and are in the pre-packaged fruit (sliced melon, pineapple, etc.) part of the produce section. They'll have a brand name on them like "Ocean Spray".

The fact that your vet saw how severe the urine burn was and didn't indicate a desire to do a urinalysis (which btw, costs about $30 at my San Antonio vet - prices vary from vet to vet but it's a reasonably inexpensive procedure) is a HUGE red flag, as a rabbit-savvy vet should know that urine scald is almost always indicative of an underlying problem. The fact that he didn't even express a desire to rule out that possibility is very concerning. Finding a better vet would most likely get your bunny the proper diagnosis and treatment faster *and* cheaper (because a more savvy vet will typically pinpoint the issue more efficiently and find an effective treatment for him sooner - meaning less tests, procedures and medications to pay for)... plus, an un-savvy vet may prescribe something unsafe or even extremely dangerous for a rabbit.

You can find lists of exotic vets in Australia on these pages:
http://members.shaw.ca/cocoasun/AustralianRabbitVets.htm
http://www.aemv.org/vetlist.cfm
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f21/australia-12014/

As for the conditioner, it appears to be potentially unsafe because of the potential for ingestion. It's advertised as being made with oatmeal and aloe vera gel (in fact, it's about 97.5% aloe vera gel), both of which are safe if ingested by a rabbit. Despite aloe vera gel being safe for rabbits, you'll find Aloe Vera on any list of plants toxic to bunnies. That's because the gel isn't toxic to them but other parts of the plant are - specifically, the part that makes aloe vera juice. I was a bit suspicious of the assertion that it only had two ingredients and there were references to the ingredients but no "official" list to be found. Thankfully, that's what MSDS sheets are for. [There's not a direct link for the MSDS because it's a PDF file rather than a website, but the link to open the file is third from the top on this list of search results (at least, it is in the US).]

The MSDS shows that it contains 0.5% oatmeal, 2% aloe vera juice and the rest of it is non-hazardous ingredients (ie the aloe vera gel). In other words it contains the part of the plant that's toxic to bunnies (and a fairly powerful laxative)... albeit in a very small quantity that may not be enough to cause any problems, especially if only a small amount of the conditioner were ingested. Still, better safe than sorry, imo. Also, the Ph seems oddly low to me - 3.0-4.0 (7 being neutral/plain water), which sounds rather acidic but I don't know if it's necessarily bad or dangerous (for comparison purposes, orange juice has a pH of 3 and tomato juice has a pH of 4). Plain aloe vera gel normally has a pH similar to that of human skin (5.5). All in all, I'd skip the conditioner as whether it's unsafe is debatable but it certainly can't be stated as definitively safe.

 

[sarah92]

hey guys ,
thanks for the replies. I took nudge in this morning to my vet- who is actually wonderful with rabbits the one I saw the other day wasn't my usual vet.
Nudge was infested with maggots. I know this makes me look like a horrible owner and I feel SO BAD. but she said things like this can happen overnight and that it wasn't my fault its just the very hot weather, he had urine on him and the flies started to attack.
I was so so so upset my poor little baby.

His been shaved, and wounds cleaned. He is now on antibiotics, pain meds and a cream to help the soreness. Also has had advantage so no flies/maggots will get back on him.

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

hey guys ,
thanks for the replies. I took nudge in this morning to my vet- who is actually wonderful with rabbits the one I saw the other day wasn't my usual vet.
Nudge was infested with maggots. I know this makes me look like a horrible owner and I feel SO BAD. but she said things like this can happen overnight and that it wasn't my fault its just the very hot weather, he had urine on him and the flies started to attack.
I was so so so upset my poor little baby.

His been shaved, and wounds cleaned. He is now on antibiotics, pain meds and a cream to help the soreness. Also has had advantage so no flies/maggots will get back on him.

--just briefly--urine scalding,-and fly strike-are two problems that come to mind http://www.medirabbit.com this is a medical website for our furry friends,,--and yes,-this all requires immediate medical care,-antibiotics-probotics,-with ground pellets,water--hay,hay.!!-daily ,care 24/7--please keep us informed-as time permits,--sincerely james waller :agree:bunnieskiss:bunny5:rabbithop:bunnyheart

 

[Imbrium]

hey guys ,
thanks for the replies. I took nudge in this morning to my vet- who is actually wonderful with rabbits the one I saw the other day wasn't my usual vet.
Nudge was infested with maggots. I know this makes me look like a horrible owner and I feel SO BAD. but she said things like this can happen overnight and that it wasn't my fault its just the very hot weather, he had urine on him and the flies started to attack.
I was so so so upset my poor little baby.

His been shaved, and wounds cleaned. He is now on antibiotics, pain meds and a cream to help the soreness. Also has had advantage so no flies/maggots will get back on him.

Oh, god... I didn't even think about that possibility, as I'm so used to my own "indoor only" rabbits that it didn't occur to me to mention the dangers of putting a rabbit with a poopy or urine-scalded bum outdoors .

Flystrike has a brutally swift progression; it's often fatal within 24h if it isn't caught and treated very promptly, meaning it would've started the night or morning before the second vet visit. Thank god you're such a concerned bunny-momma that you brought him back in as soon as your regular vet was available - you saved his life by not following the other vet's lead and shrugging off a wet bottom like it wasn't a big deal!

We had a bunny when I was a kid who got a cut on his shoulder (can't even begin to remember how)... it was maybe 3/4'' long and not very deep (obviously didn't require stitches), so mom cleaned it up and we kept an eye on it to make sure it didn't get infected. My parents saw no need to take him to the vet for it - that would've been like taking me to the doctor because I skinned my knee. 2-3 times a day, we'd take a good look at the cut to make sure it was healing properly and we'd apply neosporin to it.

We lived in New Orleans at the time and it was summer... our bunny technically lived indoors, but mom and dad didn't know about all the ways to bunny proof (this was over 20 years ago, mind you) so he lived in a cage (about twice the size of a standard store cage these days) and wasn't allowed to run around the house unless I was actively playing with him. To make sure he got enough exercise, they'd put him out in our big, shade-covered back yard for 4-6 hours a day.

We had done a lot of research on rabbits at the library but we were unaware of the concept of flystrike . His cut looked fine when he came inside early one afternoon but when I delivered his nightly veggies around 7 pm, it was obvious that something was horribly wrong - the skin around his cut was turning black, if I remember correctly, and it looked scary as hell. Mom rushed him to the emergency vet, where he was treated for flystrike - they told her she brought him in just in time, as he would've been dead by morning if she hadn't!

Flystrike can happen in the blink of an eye... and once you've had an experience with it, it makes you pretty paranoid after that. You should've seen me the couple of times a fly got in the house after I got Nala and Gaz - 19 years after my flystrike experience and I'd hunt the thing down relentlessly like I was on a life-or-death mission until I'd killed it!

Don't beat yourself up over him being a victim of flystrike - it could happen to anyone! You were very worried over the urine scald and making sure the problem was addressed... and because you were such a good bunny slave, he's alive and on his way to a full recovery!

As a note, if she didn't give you probiotics, you might ask about getting some - they're always recommended when antibiotics are being given, as they can go a long way towards mitigating any side-effects.

ray: I hope he has a seamless recovery! I remember it taking a LONG time for my bunny to fully recover (maybe as much as a month), as we had to put a special ointment on him a couple times a day until it was completely healed. He was good as new when it was all over, though!

 

[sarah92]

Oh, god... I didn't even think about that possibility, as I'm so used to my own "indoor only" rabbits that it didn't occur to me to mention the dangers of putting a rabbit with a poopy or urine-scalded bum outdoors .

Flystrike has a brutally swift progression; it's often fatal within 24h if it isn't caught and treated very promptly, meaning it would've started the night or morning before the second vet visit. Thank god you're such a concerned bunny-momma that you brought him back in as soon as your regular vet was available - you saved his life by not following the other vet's lead and shrugging off a wet bottom like it wasn't a big deal!

We had a bunny when I was a kid who got a cut on his shoulder (can't even begin to remember how)... it was maybe 3/4'' long and not very deep (obviously didn't require stitches), so mom cleaned it up and we kept an eye on it to make sure it didn't get infected. My parents saw no need to take him to the vet for it - that would've been like taking me to the doctor because I skinned my knee. 2-3 times a day, we'd take a good look at the cut to make sure it was healing properly and we'd apply neosporin to it.

We lived in New Orleans at the time and it was summer... our bunny technically lived indoors, but mom and dad didn't know about all the ways to bunny proof (this was over 20 years ago, mind you) so he lived in a cage (about twice the size of a standard store cage these days) and wasn't allowed to run around the house unless I was actively playing with him. To make sure he got enough exercise, they'd put him out in our big, shade-covered back yard for 4-6 hours a day.

We had done a lot of research on rabbits at the library but we were unaware of the concept of flystrike . His cut looked fine when he came inside early one afternoon but when I delivered his nightly veggies around 7 pm, it was obvious that something was horribly wrong - the skin around his cut was turning black, if I remember correctly, and it looked scary as hell. Mom rushed him to the emergency vet, where he was treated for flystrike - they told her she brought him in just in time, as he would've been dead by morning if she hadn't!

Flystrike can happen in the blink of an eye... and once you've had an experience with it, it makes you pretty paranoid after that. You should've seen me the couple of times a fly got in the house after I got Nala and Gaz - 19 years after my flystrike experience and I'd hunt the thing down relentlessly like I was on a life-or-death mission until I'd killed it!

Don't beat yourself up over him being a victim of flystrike - it could happen to anyone! You were very worried over the urine scald and making sure the problem was addressed... and because you were such a good bunny slave, he's alive and on his way to a full recovery!

As a note, if she didn't give you probiotics, you might ask about getting some - they're always recommended when antibiotics are being given, as they can go a long way towards mitigating any side-effects.

ray: I hope he has a seamless recovery! I remember it taking a LONG time for my bunny to fully recover (maybe as much as a month), as we had to put a special ointment on him a couple times a day until it was completely healed. He was good as new when it was all over, though!

thank you for your reply I really do feel horrible about him! and I too am paranoid about flies now.. I keep checking my other bunnies bum to make sure his fine!

I wish I could have my buns inside but my parents wont allow it..
I have a big outside run that they go in on the grass during the day, and at night time go in the hutch.. problem with nudge is he likes to poo in his litter box and then sit in it -.- I'm sure that's how this all started!
Flies are horrible things!
I will ask about a probiotic!

he is currently getting: Batrim syrup twice daily, metacam twice daily and flamazine cream to apply to affected skin twice daily as well.
Hopefully he heals up soon. this heat is horrible this week so that of course isn't going to help!

 

[Imbrium]

If you suspect that sitting in dirty litter is a contributing factor, a good solution for that is to install a grid. This thread has great info on how to make one (check 1/3 of the way down the first page). The eggcrate (lighting diffuser for large florescent light fixtures like we have in schools and office buildings) is easy to find at big hardware store chains in the US, but I'm not sure how readily available it is in Australia. If you can't find it or want a cheaper option, you could ghetto-rig a grid using a cooling rack (for cookies or w/e) or any number of other inexpensive things.

By itself, though, sitting in dirty litter shouldn't cause an issue like severe urine scald - it may worsen it, but it's usually not the root of the problem. Given that his unsanitary bum is being caused by urine, I still believe a urinalysis is likely to provide some useful information - that test checks for a number of possible issues, like a UTI or bladder sludge.