Urgent, sick rabbit, need advice from experienced folks. - RIP

[beanbun]

Hi everyone,

A couple of months ago we nursed our rabbit Bean through a bad bout of stasis. We've only had her a few months -- she was a neglect/abuse case we found on the side of the road over the summer. We don't know her history but it's clear she's been through a lot. She is at least middle aged if not older and she has two compromised hind legs -- one is completely lame, the other partially, but she's been able to get around until just recently (the legs apparently were broken at some point and never treated).

Basically we thought we had finally recovered from the stasis through the use of gut drugs, metacam, removing pellets from her diet, and lots of hay and greens and TLC. The one problem was the weight loss. She lost a scary amount of weight over the course of the slow recovery from stasis. We have a wonderful rabbit savvy vet who has been helping us monitor this and we were working on starting to try to bulk her back up a bit.

So this brings us to our current problem. The other day I came inside and found her basically unable to use her hind legs efficiently anymore. It seems that due to the weight loss, the "worse" leg just folds completely under her now and she gets stuck. Her urine also was suddenly a very dark rust color which I understand can be normal OR not. We took her to our wonderful vet as I suspected shock and they began supportive care which helped. Unfortunately they are not 24 hours so we had to transfer her to an overnight place where they are less savvy. She spent two nights there being warmed, hydrated, etc. She responded well in the sense that she has been bright and alert and interested in food, urine cleared up, stools have been soft but copious. They discharged her to us last night saying her temps were normal, but she still doesn't seem to be able to maintain the temp without external heat.

We brought her home and have continued intensive supportive care, basically treating her for presumed shock/stasis. We have her bundled in to a nice little bed with a warm water bottle, towels, etc and we are changing everything out every few hours. She is eating greens and hay with gusto and taking her fluids and meds via syringe no problem, etc. We are keeping her with us in the bedroom at night.

So here is my question -- is this seeming borderline paralysis situation something that can result from shock or is there likely some other underlying issue? It seems she has an awful amount of weakness in her limbs now -- in all four, though the hind ones are worse.

Our vet isn't in today and I don't trust those people at the emergency place so we have to wait 24 hours to talk to someone skilled and/or even think about putting her through the stress of diagnostics. They couldn't do any bloodwork while she was hospitalized because her veins were "blown" from the shock/hypothermia.

I am PRAYING that this is just weakness and that there's hope of her regaining her strength. I love her and would do anything for her but I don't want to prolong suffering either. I don't think she feels too terrible as she's enjoying her food and treats, but I feel awful that she has to sit in her own waste despite us cleaning her up and changing everything every few hours. Also I am 36 weeks pregnant and terrified that the baby will come before she is well and we will not be able to care for her ourselves while I am at the hospital delivering.

Please advise on the weight loss, limb weakness, etc... Really I welcome any and all opinions or help. We are desperate yet hopeful. She is a very special bun.

THANK YOU!

 

[Sweetie]

Hi everyone,

A couple of months ago we nursed our rabbit Bean through a bad bout of stasis. We've only had her a few months -- she was a neglect/abuse case we found on the side of the road over the summer. We don't know her history but it's clear she's been through a lot. She is at least middle aged if not older and she has two compromised hind legs -- one is completely lame, the other partially, but she's been able to get around until just recently (the legs apparently were broken at some point and never treated).

Basically we thought we had finally recovered from the stasis through the use of gut drugs, metacam, removing pellets from her diet, and lots of hay and greens and TLC. The one problem was the weight loss. She lost a scary amount of weight over the course of the slow recovery from stasis. We have a wonderful rabbit savvy vet who has been helping us monitor this and we were working on starting to try to bulk her back up a bit.

So this brings us to our current problem. The other day I came inside and found her basically unable to use her hind legs efficiently anymore. It seems that due to the weight loss, the "worse" leg just folds completely under her now and she gets stuck. Her urine also was suddenly a very dark rust color which I understand can be normal OR not. We took her to our wonderful vet as I suspected shock and they began supportive care which helped. Unfortunately they are not 24 hours so we had to transfer her to an overnight place where they are less savvy. She spent two nights there being warmed, hydrated, etc. She responded well in the sense that she has been bright and alert and interested in food, urine cleared up, stools have been soft but copious. They discharged her to us last night saying her temps were normal, but she still doesn't seem to be able to maintain the temp without external heat.

We brought her home and have continued intensive supportive care, basically treating her for presumed shock/stasis. We have her bundled in to a nice little bed with a warm water bottle, towels, etc and we are changing everything out every few hours. She is eating greens and hay with gusto and taking her fluids and meds via syringe no problem, etc. We are keeping her with us in the bedroom at night.

So here is my question -- is this seeming borderline paralysis situation something that can result from shock or is there likely some other underlying issue? It seems she has an awful amount of weakness in her limbs now -- in all four, though the hind ones are worse.

Our vet isn't in today and I don't trust those people at the emergency place so we have to wait 24 hours to talk to someone skilled and/or even think about putting her through the stress of diagnostics. They couldn't do any bloodwork while she was hospitalized because her veins were "blown" from the shock/hypothermia.

I am PRAYING that this is just weakness and that there's hope of her regaining her strength. I love her and would do anything for her but I don't want to prolong suffering either. I don't think she feels too terrible as she's enjoying her food and treats, but I feel awful that she has to sit in her own waste despite us cleaning her up and changing everything every few hours. Also I am 36 weeks pregnant and terrified that the baby will come before she is well and we will not be able to care for her ourselves while I am at the hospital delivering.

Please advise on the weight loss, limb weakness, etc... Really I welcome any and all opinions or help. We are desperate yet hopeful. She is a very special bun.

THANK YOU!

Do me a favor, email me this and I will email a vet I know who is one test away from being a zoo vet. I am thinking that it is paralysis but I want to verify it.

 

[beanbun]

Oh thank you!! Do you want me to send it to you in a private message or to a personal email address? I am new to this forum and don't really know my way around.

 

[Sweetie]

It sounds like paralysis is getting worse but there could be something else. I can email a vet about your issue and see what he says. I know a vet who is very rabbit savvy and is one test away from being a zoo vet, so he may know what is going on with your bunny.

 

[beanbun]

It sounds like paralysis is getting worse but there could be something else. I can email a vet about your issue and see what he says. I know a vet who is very rabbit savvy and is one test away from being a zoo vet, so he may know what is going on with your bunny.

Hi Sweetie and thank you so much. I sent you a PM with my email address if that's helpful.

I am really nervous that it is some kind of paralysis situation. Would be wonderful to get some feedback from your vet friend as we are in the dark and love her desperately.

 

[Watermelons]

Please speak to a vet yourself.
The more people stories get passed through, the more dangerous the situation becomes.
There any many many things that can cause paralysis.
Can you please post your location? We may be better able to help you find a vet you can at least call to get advice from.

 

[beanbun]

Please speak to a vet yourself.
The more people stories get passed through, the more dangerous the situation becomes.
There any many many things that can cause paralysis.
Can you please post your location? We may be better able to help you find a vet you can at least call to get advice from.

We are in Tucson, AZ and to my knowledge only have one rabbit-savvy vet practice in the city (our vet) and neither of them are in today. If someone knows of another that would be great. But I am very nervous to take her in somewhere today even if there is someone because of the stress of transport etc, and I know no vet practice will advise over the phone without seeing her.

 

[Sweetie]

Let me see if I can give you my vets number so you can talk to him. I will send you the response as soon as I get it from Dr Balderrama, he is a vet and he is one test away from being a zoo vet. So hopefully he responds.

 

[Watermelons]

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f21/az-rabbit-savvy-vets-10067/
Please at least take the time to phone other vets around to see what they have to say. This is much safer.

Numerous things can cause paralysis from viruses and parasites like EC to the body throwing clots, to neurological issues, and so on. Proper testing of the actual rabbit needs to be done.
This sounds like much more then just "shock/stasis" did your vet do any diagnostic testing? Rabbits don't typically loose all control over the back legs just due to weight loss overnight. I would be in contact with another vet for even just a second opinion.

 

[beanbun]

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f21/az-rabbit-savvy-vets-10067/
Please at least take the time to phone other vets around to see what they have to say. This is much safer.

Numerous things can cause paralysis from viruses and parasites like EC to the body throwing clots, to neurological issues, and so on. Proper testing of the actual rabbit needs to be done.
This sounds like much more then just "shock/stasis" did your vet do any diagnostic testing? Rabbits don't typically loose all control over the back legs just due to weight loss overnight. I would be in contact with another vet for even just a second opinion.

But we don't HAVE another vet here in Tucson -- that is the problem.

She didn't lose all control of her hind legs, if you read my original post I stated that it seemed she's having progressive gradual weakness.

Also as I said in my original post, we couldn't do any diagnostics when she was hospitalized because she was in too dire a state from the shock/hypothermia. We decided to just support her and try to help her survive the night and then do diagnostics, but that isn't an option until tomorrow since our regular vet, the ONLY good rabbit vet in the city, isn't in today.

Believe me, I would love to speak with someone knowledgeable who would be willing to advise over the phone, but I don't have anyone qualified to contact, hence my posting here for help. Also, most vets will not advise via phone without examining the animal due to liability issues -- so where am I supposed to turn today?

I would never do anything to endanger her -- I am trying to save her, and I am a very conscientious and responsible pet owner!

 

[Sweetie]

My vet just got back with me. I will give you the office number. He is going surgeries today so it may be a while before he gets back with you. I will PM you the number.

 

[beanbun]

Also, our vet is the first Tucson one listed on the rabbit savvy vet list. The second one on the list is the 24 hour place where she stayed the night and they are NOT truly rabbit savvy. All the others on the list are 2 hours away or more.

 

[Sweetie]

That is very interesting. Good to know for if I ever go down there.

 

[JBun]

I'm sorry your bun isn't doing well. Hopefully your vet will be able to discover what is wrong when you are able to get your bun to see them. It would be hard to know what is causing the hind limb paralysis/weakness without further testing, as watermelons mentioned. Hopefully by tomorrow your bun will be doing well enough that your vet will be able to do the needed testing. Just do your best with supportive care until you are able to get your bun to the vet. Also, if you aren't already giving metacam to your rabbit, it may help to bring down any inflammation contributing to or possibly causing the current problem, and help with any pain. Maybe you could phone your vets office if they are open and ask if it would be appropriate to give it to your bun at this time, or talk to the emergency clinic. Here's some info on paralysis in rabbits, and also some info on disabled rabbits that might be helpful to you.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/paresis.htm
http://www.disabledrabbits.com/

With the weight loss, if your rabbit doesn't have kidney or bladder sludge issues, sometimes adding alfalfa hay into the diet will help with weight gain, if this isn't already something you are doing. I would suggest starting it off slowly though, as it can cause digestive upset with some rabbits, when they aren't used to it.

 

[beanbun]

I'm sorry your bun isn't doing well. Hopefully your vet will be able to discover what is wrong when you are able to get your bun to see them. It would be hard to know what is causing the hind limb paralysis/weakness without further testing, as watermelons mentioned. Hopefully by tomorrow your bun will be doing well enough that your vet will be able to do the needed testing. Just do your best with supportive care until you are able to get your bun to the vet. Also, if you aren't already giving metacam to your rabbit, it may help to bring down any inflammation contributing to or possibly causing the current problem, and help with any pain. Maybe you could phone your vets office if they are open and ask if it would be appropriate to give it to your bun at this time, or talk to the emergency clinic. Here's some info on paralysis in rabbits, and also some info on disabled rabbits that might be helpful to you.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/paresis.htm
http://www.disabledrabbits.com/

With the weight loss, if your rabbit doesn't have kidney or bladder sludge issues, sometimes adding alfalfa hay into the diet will help with weight gain, if this isn't already something you are doing. I would suggest starting it off slowly though, as it can cause digestive upset with some rabbits, when they aren't used to it.

Thank you so very much JBun. She is indeed on Metacam and we are planning to try alfalfa if/when we get her a little more stablized. I tried calling other vets but as I suspected no one will advise over the phone and I just do not think she can handle another trip to a vet today. Everyone just keeps telling us to call or go to Valley AH but that's the place that has treated her improperly on 2 occasions now. That's why I wouldn't let them do anything other than supportive care when she stayed with them -- they call themselves rabbit vets but they don't know what they're doing, it's so frustrating having people keep telling us to contact them. I have been in tears for two days and am so confused. She can't move or groom herself or anything -- it's completely heartbreaking. I love her so much. The weight loss has been terrifyingly rapid and I am really thinking she may have some kind of terminal condition. I am just getting to that point where I am preparing myself to have to say goodbye, and I hate it. She is an angel and I am so happy she came into our lives; I am not ready to lose her.

 

[Sweetie]

I will pray for your bunny to hold on as long as she can. In the meantime, have you been able to contact my vet yet?

 

[JBun]

It is very difficult when our rabbits get sick. I lost one of my sweet buns to stasis last year, and I still miss her. But I've also been able to help another of my rabbits recover from it. Even though rabbits can be a pretty fragile animal, they can surprise you and recover from the worst illnesses.

I think people are just trying to help when making suggestions to find a different vet, but not understanding that in your area your options are limited. I don't blame you for not wanting to take your bun to an inexperienced vet that you have no faith in. I don't know that I would want to either.

I'm hoping along with other possible causes, your vet fully investigates the possibility of this being caused by e. cuniculi. It can cause both sudden weight loss and the hind limb paralysis that you are seeing. Rabbits that are stressed or sick with other health problems, can especially be at risk. Usually the treatment for that is an antiparasitic called fenbendazole. Metacam is usually also given to control the inflammation causing the symptoms, sometimes steroids are prescribed in really severe cases but mostly a last resort med as it can affect the immune system , and sometimes an antibiotic may be prescribed as well if there is a suspected underlying infection. There are other possible causes, but sometimes I think that EC is often overlooked as being the cause of these type of symptoms.

I'm hoping for the best for your bun, and that she will be able to recover from this.

 

[beanbun]

Sweetie, I have not contacted him as Bean seems to be holding her own (she's stable, maybe somewhat improved from last night) and honestly I just needed to step away for a bit because I was too upset and being 36 weeks pregnant I need to keep my stress levels somewhat under control! Now that it's late in the day I don't know whether to call or just wait it out til the morning since she's doing okay right now. But either way, thank you again for all your kindness and help today, it means a lot.

JBun, you have given me some hope! I just read up on e. cuniculi and I really think it's a possibility. I am just hoping that if that's the case, we're not too late. I am going to talk to my vet about this first thing tomorrow AM and may ask her to just let us go ahead and treat for it since I don't think we have much to lose at this point. I feel it's highly likely she's been exposed since the vets suspect she was part of a back yard breeding/overcrowding/neglect situation in her former life. It really does make sense though -- maybe the original bout of stasis weakened her immune system and allowed it to proliferate. That would explain the weight loss, the weakness/paralysis, possibly the soft stools and seeming urinary incontinence and dark urine... it really makes sense to me.

When she was hospitalized I kept asking them about her movement, what did they think, what could cause this, etc, and they just gave me evasive non-answers. It was almost like no one there was even willing to admit that she was becoming paralyzed! They just kept insisting it was stasis over and over again, even though there wasn't a slowdown in her eating or pooping. It was terrible and so upsetting. I basically got the feeling that these vets just label any sick rabbit as a stasis case and that's that.

We have decided we will not hospitalize her again for this unless it's a daytime stay with our regular vet. We have the baby coming and have already spent almost 3k on her in the past week. We can't afford it AND I don't want to put her through it. So I am going to give it my all with home care and pray that we can find a solution with meds and TLC. I am terrified we'll lose her but I also have hope as she is still bright and alert. Basically from the shoulders up she seems relatively normal.

I am happy to at least feel like we have some kind of a lead at this point with the EC theory.

 

[Sweetie]

Sweetie, I have not contacted him as Bean seems to be holding her own (she's stable, maybe somewhat improved from last night) and honestly I just needed to step away for a bit because I was too upset and being 36 weeks pregnant I need to keep my stress levels somewhat under control! Now that it's late in the day I don't know whether to call or just wait it out til the morning since she's doing okay right now. But either way, thank you again for all your kindness and help today, it means a lot.

JBun, you have given me some hope! I just read up on e. cuniculi and I really think it's a possibility. I am just hoping that if that's the case, we're not too late. I am going to talk to my vet about this first thing tomorrow AM and may ask her to just let us go ahead and treat for it since I don't think we have much to lose at this point. I feel it's highly likely she's been exposed since the vets suspect she was part of a back yard breeding/overcrowding/neglect situation in her former life. It really does make sense though -- maybe the original bout of stasis weakened her immune system and allowed it to proliferate. That would explain the weight loss, the weakness/paralysis, possibly the soft stools and seeming urinary incontinence and dark urine... it really makes sense to me.

When she was hospitalized I kept asking them about her movement, what did they think, what could cause this, etc, and they just gave me evasive non-answers. It was almost like no one there was even willing to admit that she was becoming paralyzed! They just kept insisting it was stasis over and over again, even though there wasn't a slowdown in her eating or pooping. It was terrible and so upsetting. I basically got the feeling that these vets just label any sick rabbit as a stasis case and that's that.

We have decided we will not hospitalize her again for this unless it's a daytime stay with our regular vet. We have the baby coming and have already spent almost 3k on her in the past week. We can't afford it AND I don't want to put her through it. So I am going to give it my all with home care and pray that we can find a solution with meds and TLC. I am terrified we'll lose her but I also have hope as she is still bright and alert. Basically from the shoulders up she seems relatively normal.

I am happy to at least feel like we have some kind of a lead at this point with the EC theory.

You're welcome. I would give him a call and talk to him and see what he might advise you to do. It may not be much but it might help. I also sent this thread to another member and he should see it shortly.

If there is anything else I can do to help, please let me know. You can email me as well.

 

[JBun]

When EC is a possibility as a cause of symptoms, it's my opinion that it won't usually hurt to start treatment. Though there is always the off chance that there could be a negative reaction to a medication, fenbendazole is considered a relatively safe antiparasitic. It is safely used in other animals, to treat other types of parasites as well. The one drawback is that it does have to be given for at least 28 days when treating for EC. Not fun medicating a bun for that long if it doesn't want to cooperate.

Stasis may be the only rabbit illness those vets are familiar with, since it is the most common one with rabbits. Honestly, if I had taken my rabbit to those vets and heard them dismissing the paralysis and labeling it stasis, I would have taken my bunny and RAN away from that place. I wouldn't have let them touch her. If I understand what is wrong with my rabbit better than the vet, that would make me a little nervous. Having access to a good rabbit vet is certainly something to be thankful for.

I think it's good that you are going to keep her at home. I'm of the opinion that hospitalization should only be a last resort, when so much medical care is needed that it can't be done at home, or the bun can't receive the round the clock care that it needs. It's just far too stressful for most rabbits to be away from home and in that type of situation, unless absolutely needed. And stress can make the illness and situation so much worse, and can make them prone to developing stasis if they don't already have it.

It is hard though, having to constantly feed, medicate, and clean a sick rabbit, I couldn't imagine having to do that along with being pregnant! Caring for an ill rabbit is never easy under the best of circumstances, but one thing I have found is that having to care for a critically ill rabbit can also be a good experience in a way. It can really give you a closer bond with them. I went from having a rabbit petrified of people, to one that loved and wanted to snuggle with me... And you do have one really good sign that I can see. Despite your buns symptoms, her behavior is very encouraging. Being bright and alert is a very good sign. I'll be anxiously awaiting to hear how the vet visit goes.