Unknown problem with intestinal track

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DeSERG

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Almost for 4 weeks my rabbits poop are very soft and wet. It starts with molt. H stopped pooping and we solved that problem by injecting him antispasmodic and ranitidine (as vet prescripted). Rabbit pooped a lot that day - soft and wet. But his behviour remained strange. Seemed like rabbit had urologic problems. Next day we visited the vet to cut teeth and told him about that fact. Check up showed that rabbit feels pain near bladder zone. So the decision was to pass antibiotic course. For 21 day we injected him antibiotics and it seemed that urologic problem was solved. But all that time rabbit pooped wet and soft poops. More than a week ago we stopped antibiotics, for 3 days gave rabbit anthelmintic, but till today nothing changed. Rabbit lost 250gr of weight (he was 1,2kilo before, 970gr today). And out vet doesn't know what is it.
Teeth problem is excluded, helmints excluded, urologic excluded. Poop analysis didn't show anything.
My vet supposes that it can be a problem with cecum, but in my city there's no way to check it. So vet recommended to try probiotics. And i want to ask, what rpobiotics can you recommend? And may be somebody solved the same problem?
 

SableSteel

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I've used the probios powder from tractor supply before. I don't know what probiotics are available near you, but rabbits have a similar digestive tract to horses. Probiotics sold as for horses or for multispecies would likely work.
 

FuzzyBunny ph

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I give Bene Bac to my buns, I usually sprinkle it in their hay or in their water bowl. Hopefully giving your bun probiotics would help! try to also increase hay intake :)
 

JBun

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Are the round fecal balls soft and wet or are just the cecotropes wet and mushy? Could you take a picture of the wet rabbit poop and post it here so we can better have an idea of what might be going on.


What is the exact diet that you feed your rabbit? In your rabbits urine, are you seeing it being thick and creamy, gel like, or gritty and pasty at all? Is your rabbit still eating on it's own and normal amounts or is there a decreased appetite?

 

DeSERG

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Thanks for answers, guys. Rabbits nutrition:
IMG_20211007_104429.jpg
His fecal has no form.
IMG_20211007_104455.jpg
Ultrasound diagnostics showed nothing in bladder. And it also showed that peristalsis is slow.
His appetite decreased,but he still eats without help. And I can't say anything about his urine because it absorbed in his toilet.
 

DeSERG

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I also give him 1-2 salad leaves or small piece of apple two times a day. And twice a day give him snacks
IMG_20211007_110238.jpg
 
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FuzzyBunny ph

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Thanks for answers, guys. Rabbits nutrition:
View attachment 57806
His fecal has no form.
View attachment 57807
Ultrasound diagnostics showed nothing in bladder. And it also showed that peristalsis is slow.
His appetite decreased,but he still eats without help. And I can't say anything about his urine because it absorbed in his toilet.
Out of the thee pellet variants you shared, only Versele Laga Complete is good for bunnies. The other two variants seem to be muesli type pellets which have added ingredients that are not ideal for bunnies :( this could be what was causing the bad poop :(

Yes. but I don't know what type is it.
These dont look like timothy, orchard or meadow maybe? but it looks like stargrass, not sure if thats what its called there but here in the philippines, timothy cannot grow in our country and stargrass is a local type of grass that is said to be an okay alternative to timothy. But it doesn't have the same nutritional value as timothy and not all bunnies here like it.

Are you able to get timothy or meadow hay in your area? :)
 

Moonshadow

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Okay, my next questions are do you feed him all three of those pellet types every day? And how much is he getting?

Also, how much hay have you seen him eat?
 

JBun

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We're seeing that part of your rabbits problem likely has to do with his diet. He is getting way too many foods high in carbohydrates and sugars. Rabbits need to be on a primarily high fiber diet from a good quality grass hay, and very limited in high carb/sugary foods like fruit and grains(if these are fed at all). But for your rabbit having these poop problems, I wouldn't be feeding any fruit and grains, and other high carb foods. I would be feeding mostly a good quality grass hay(soft or medium coarse, not too coarse of a cut, green, never been wet, no mold, no noxious weeds), limited pellets(the Complete ones from your photo) with the amount based on your rabbits weight, and maybe some leafy greens(not too high in calcium). Do you know how much hay your rabbit eats in a day, the amount being compared to his body size(eg. a pile the size of his body, half his size, etc)?


How long have you had your rabbit, and was it just the 4 weeks ago that the mushy poop problem started? Did any food changes occur at that time too? Did the wet poop only start after your rabbit was put on all of these medications, and is your rabbit still on any medications and which ones? What are the names of the antibiotic, antiparasitic, and other medications your rabbit has had so far since this started? Have you seen any signs of mucous or blood in your rabbits stool, or signs of intestinal worms? Also, what color is your rabbit? For the probiotic, do you have access to Protexin Fibreplex? It's a rabbit probiotic sold in Europe.

Did your vet do any blood tests to check kidney and liver function?
 

DeSERG

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Out of the thee pellet variants you shared, only Versele Laga Complete is good for bunnies. The other two variants seem to be muesli type pellets which have added ingredients that are not ideal for bunnies :( this could be what was causing the bad poop :(


These dont look like timothy, orchard or meadow maybe? but it looks like stargrass, not sure if thats what its called there but here in the philippines, timothy cannot grow in our country and stargrass is a local type of grass that is said to be an okay alternative to timothy. But it doesn't have the same nutritional value as timothy and not all bunnies here like it.

Are you able to get timothy or meadow hay in your area? :)
I buy hay in the shop. Usually in sale there are 2-3 different manufacturers hay. I thought about changing hay to another, more soft, may be. May be i have to do it.
Okay, my next questions are do you feed him all three of those pellet types every day? And how much is he getting?

Also, how much hay have you seen him eat?
I give him mix of it 2 times a day 10-20 gr. He eats some pieces , not much. After few hours i take away that he didn't eat and give him new portion. He eats while feed is just taken from the pack and attracts rabbit by fresh flavor.
He definitely doesn't eat much hay. i'd say that he eats 2-3 blade of grass (idk how to call a a few pieces of hay in english).
I'll try to buy bio-lapis probiotic and pro-fiber but buying it will take a lot of time, because in my country it doesn't sell and i have to order it from Poland...
 

DeSERG

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Do you know how much hay your rabbit eats in a day, the amount being compared to his body size(eg. a pile the size of his body, half his size, etc)?


How long have you had your rabbit, and was it just the 4 weeks ago that the mushy poop problem started? Did any food changes occur at that time too? Did the wet poop only start after your rabbit was put on all of these medications, and is your rabbit still on any medications and which ones? What are the names of the antibiotic, antiparasitic, and other medications your rabbit has had so far since this started? Have you seen any signs of mucous or blood in your rabbits stool, or signs of intestinal worms? Also, what color is your rabbit? For the probiotic, do you have access to Protexin Fibreplex? It's a rabbit probiotic sold in Europe.

Did your vet do any blood tests to check kidney and liver function?
About hay i answered above. He doesn't eat much of it.
My rabbit is 3,5 years old. I handle him starting 1st month.
Yes, this problem started 4 weeks ago. No food changes. Everything is the same as it was.
Since tuesday i stopped all the medicamentations because it didn't help.
He was given from the beginning:
- Drotaverin and ranitidine when he stopped pooping;
- Marfloxin 0,18ml injections for 3 weeks (till tuesday 28.09) and Metamizol natrii for 4-5 days as pain reliever after teeth cut. Vet found that we got problems with gums plus urological problem, so that's why antibiotic course was so long. urologic problem was solved.
- on the last week we gave him Stop-coccid (Toltrazuril ) for 3 days as antiparasitic .
And during whole that time his poops stayed wet and soft.
There was no signs of mucous or blood in rabbits stool, or signs of intestinal worms.
About Protexin Fibreplex - have to check it.
Vet didn't do any blood tests... I'll ask her if it's possible. Unfortunately my vet is only one in city who specializes on rabbits.
 

JBun

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I think you're looking at possible drug side effects from some of the meds your vet used, as the cause for the gut problems. Drotaverine and metamizole, as far as I can tell, aren't used in rabbits, so their safety for rabbits is unknown. If I had to guess, because this occurred when your vet first prescribed the drotaverine and ranitidine, that there's a good chance the drotaverine could be the cause of all this.

Originally your rabbit had something called GI stasis, where he stopped pooping. This was likely due to his molting and ingesting fur, which can slow down the digestive tract. And because he has a high carb diet and eats very little grass hay, then he wasn't getting sufficient fiber to help move the ingested fur out of his gut, so his gut motility slowed down and stopped.

The usual treatment and meds for a minor to mild case of GI stasis is, a gut motility med like metoclopramide or cisapride, ranitidine(though this may not be used any more because of recent problems discovered with the drug), sub q fluids if the rabbit is dehydrated, and the pain relief/anti inflammatory meloxicam. Then a few other meds might be added in, but those are the basics.


So if it was one or more of the meds that have caused the mushy poop problem, because it damaged the nerve function in the digestive tract(which is one of the main things for proper poop formation and movement), about all that could be done at this point that I can see(just my opinion), is to try and help correct the as much of the disfunction as possible, with a strictly regulated diet that is high in fiber and low in carbohydrates.

One of the best things to help correct digestive problems in rabbits, is indigestible fiber from a good quality grass hay. This helps promote good gut motility and helps to restore the imbalance of the microflora in the gut, which balance is absolutely essential for rabbits to maintain good health and proper gut function. This high fiber low carb diet would basically be following the recommended treatment for cecal dysbiosis in rabbits, that causes mushy cecotropes.


So starting with free feeding a good quality grass hay. I can't tell from the photo how good the quality of that hay is, so you'll need to determine if you think the quality is fine. Iif it's not a good quality hay, I would suggest getting a different grass hay. It absolutely has to be free of mold and never been wet, as mold can make rabbit very sick, even cause death. Signs of mold are white and black spots, waxy appearance, white dust, dampness, sour or musty smell.

Good quality grass hay should be a mostly nice green color, and it's best to be at least half to three quarters leafy strands(contain the necessary protein and nutrients), and the rest the crunchy stems(high in fiber). Then this hay needs to be free fed, meaning your rabbit should never run out of it and it needs to be topped up fresh at least twice a day.

Picking good hay for rabbits

I would remove all of the other pellets and treats and only feed the Versa Laga Complete, though at a reduced amount than what you have been feeding so that your rabbit will start eating hay. About how much in cup measurements, do you think you currently feed of all of those foods/pellets combined? And about how much does your rabbit weigh?
 

DeSERG

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Today I changed a hay. Bought another one, with more green grass. Seems that rabbit appreciate it more. But I don't know how to keep it vacuum, don't want it to lose it flavor.
About quantity of feed - I give him 3-4 sticks of Complete and 2-3 pieces of other feed. He eats part of it. Like 2-3 pieces in a couple hours. Then I take out that he left and put a new portion.
It's hard to measure. Rabbits yesterday weight is 970gr.
 

JBun

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Do you keep the hay indoors and out of direct sunlight?

I would start with 1/4 cup of the Complete pellets. All of the other foods I would stop feeding completely. No apples, fruit, or other sugary snacks. None of the Crispy snacks, Nature feed, or other treats. The only treat I would continue to feed is the salad leaves(no iceberg lettuce leaves) and other rabbit safe leafy greens(never spoiled ones).

Then closely monitor how much hay he is eating per day. If he is starting to eat his hay well but isn't eating a pile of it the size of his body per day, then I would reduce the pellet amount to 1/8 cup per day. If he is then eating a pile of hay the size of his body per day, I would keep the pellets at that amount and monitor his poop. The critical points when reducing pellet amounts are being absolutely sure the rabbit is eating the hay really well or their digestion will slow down due to reduced food intake and they can go into GI stasis, feeding a hay that is green with nutrients and isn't a really coarse hay but has soft strands(coarse hay lacks nutrients), and closely monitoring the rabbit for unhealthy weight loss.

If you don't see any improvement in the mushy poop after a few days to a week on the reduced pellet amount, then I would reduce the pellet amounts again. Provided the rabbit is eating a lot of hay and isn't continuing to have unhealthy weight loss.


So when done right, feeding a high hay and restricted pellet low carb diet, will help correct the digestive imbalance that has occurred, and will clear up most mushy poop problems. If there is permanent nerve damage in the digestive tract, there may be some continuing poop issues, but a high hay diet will usually improve the problem a lot, and minimize the effects as much as is possible.
 

DeSERG

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Do you keep the hay indoors and out of direct sunlight?

I would start with 1/4 cup of the Complete pellets. All of the other foods I would stop feeding completely. No apples, fruit, or other sugary snacks. None of the Crispy snacks, Nature feed, or other treats. The only treat I would continue to feed is the salad leaves(no iceberg lettuce leaves) and other rabbit safe leafy greens(never spoiled ones).

Then closely monitor how much hay he is eating per day. If he is starting to eat his hay well but isn't eating a pile of it the size of his body per day, then I would reduce the pellet amount to 1/8 cup per day. If he is then eating a pile of hay the size of his body per day, I would keep the pellets at that amount and monitor his poop. The critical points when reducing pellet amounts are being absolutely sure the rabbit is eating the hay really well or their digestion will slow down due to reduced food intake and they can go into GI stasis, feeding a hay that is green with nutrients and isn't a really coarse hay but has soft strands(coarse hay lacks nutrients), and closely monitoring the rabbit for unhealthy weight loss.

If you don't see any improvement in the mushy poop after a few days to a week on the reduced pellet amount, then I would reduce the pellet amounts again. Provided the rabbit is eating a lot of hay and isn't continuing to have unhealthy weight loss.


So when done right, feeding a high hay and restricted pellet low carb diet, will help correct the digestive imbalance that has occurred, and will clear up most mushy poop problems. If there is permanent nerve damage in the digestive tract, there may be some continuing poop issues, but a high hay diet will usually improve the problem a lot, and minimize the effects as much as is possible.
What about probiotics? Should I try to buy it? Just got a message that buying probiotics I've linked above will take 2 weeks.
 

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