Trip to the vet made things worse!

[Big Boy Wallace]

Age: ~4yo (rescued at around 7months)
Breed: Flemish Giant
Weight: 8.11kg, or ~17lbs
Gender: male
Diet: unlimited hay, pelleted food, with occasional veggies and friut

For the past few days, there has been a squeak to Wallace's breathing. He then started to sneeze, and it increased, so I took him to the vet today. He was diagnosed with an upper respiratory infection, and I was given anti-biotics to give to him via syringe.

He is very calm normally, and not much upsets him, however, he hates his travel crate with a passion, and getting him in is always a struggle. I think the trip tot he vet was a little much on him, and a lot of people sort of gathered around him taking pictures because of his size. I think these things along with the examination really stressed him out.

When we got home, he started acting very strangely. He keeps sitting on his bum (tail under where he is sitting) and rocked back on the heels of his hind legs. His front feet barely if at all reach the ground in this, upright position. He has never done this before. When he does this, his breathing gets very rapid, his eyes are wide and almost fearful, and once he slumped down and fell, his head draped in his litter pan until he seemed to snap out of it.

I called the vet clinic back and spoke with the doctor. She said it may be heart problems, and he is more comfortable being up off his chest. Does anyone know what this can be, or what is causing it? I'm very worried! I don't want to bring him back to the vet clinic, as this stressed him so much already!

 

[JBun]

It sounds like he's having some sort of pain. Do you have any metacam you could give him? That may help for now. If it is a heart problem, then I don't know what else can be done besides getting back to the vet. Is he eating and pooping? Sometimes a stressful event can cause a rabbit to start to have GI issues, which will cause gas pains, maybe that is what he was experiencing. If so, then keep an eye on the eating and pooping, as they will stop if he gets GI stasis. If you think it's gas pain that is the problem, then simethicone can be given for it along with some metacam.

 

[missyscove]

It does sound like he could be in pain to me as well. Did the vet have any suggestions for what you should do? After all, I presume she just did the physical exam on him.

 

[Big Boy Wallace]

Thanks for the replies.
The vet didn't really have any further advice based on what I was describing over the phone. She said it sounded like he was overly stressed, so not to bring him in to have looked at, as it would make it worse. She also said it sounded like it could be a heart issue, where he was sitting up to relieve pressure on his chest area. Other than keep him quiet and calm, there wasn't much to do, but we are touching base in the morning for a follow up.

He seems to be doing much better now, but is still dlong that wierd sitting upright thing. His coordination also seems a little off, he sort of bailed going into his litter pan, and when he was loose in my room, he would only hop around a little bit (a little even for his lazy standards). I almost got the feeling that something was bothering him about moving, because after a hop or two he would lie down, or do the sitting up thing again.

He is eating, drinking, and is having normal stools. He doesn't seem stressed out anymore, and was quite happy to be pet, rubbed all over, given treats, and even brushed (he loves it!).

I just don't know what to make of all this. Could it have been a sort of stroke? He did kind of fall over during his first bout of sitting up, and seems to have some coordination issues since. He also started almost stomping his front legs while sitting up too.

In all my years of owning him (and other rabbits), I have never seen this, and it is freaking me out!

As for medication mentioned, I don't feel comfortable mixing medications with the ones he has to take already, and wouldn't even know where to get them!

 

[missyscove]

Metacam is an NSAID (pain relief) commonly prescribed for use in rabbits although it is labeled for use in dogs (and single dose use in cats). Simethicone is a medication used for gas in infants that also seems to provide comfort to rabbits with gas.
I wish I could be of more help, but I agree that it's not something I've seen before either. The closest example would probably be the sort of behavior my Timmy exhibited immediately before he died (of undetermined causes), so of course I hope that's not what's going on with your boy.
Had he already gotten a dose of the antibiotics (which antibiotics were prescribed?)? It certainly doesn't sound like a typical adverse reaction, but I wonder if it could be.

 

[JBun]

Christina brings up a good point about the antibiotics and him maybe having a bad reaction to it. Does it seem like the sitting up thing he is doing is because he is having a hard time breathing and catching his breath? Maybe an allergy to the antibiotic or a side effect? You may want to discuss both possibilities with your vet, and maybe hold off on giving the next dose until you do.

 

[tolstoibunny]

How is his breathing now? I wonder if he could be having difficult time breathing normally if his nose is blocked and / or if he also has a lower respiratory infection. Perhaps sitting in a weird position helps? This is just a thought, though. I've never heard of anything similar.

 

[Bunnylova4eva]

Do you know what the antibiotic was that he got? Was this a truely rabbit savvy vet??

 

[Big Boy Wallace]

Hi,
So it isn't an adverse reactiont o the medication, he hadn't taken any at this point. I was waiting until he was calm after the vet visit to give him the first dose. The medication is Baytril, and I am to give him 1.5ml of this twice daily.

This morning he is still doing the "sitting thing", still seeming to have coordination issues, but otherwise, is alert, eating/drinking/excreting normally. His breathing is just as laboured as before I brought him into the vet with the initial problem, so no real changes there.

I'm confindent in my vet's ability with rabbits. The clinic I go to have 3 different vets, all of which handle rabbits. This one performed the spay surgery on my former rabbit with no complications. She also has a 9yo bunny of her own. She did a thorough exam on him, and said he was in excellent body condition, well muscled, not overweight, no issues with eyes, ears, teeth etc.

I don't think it could have happened as I was there the entire time, but maybe he hurt himself somehow? At one point his leg sort of slipped off the edge of the table, then he got it caught under the table as he tried to hop forward. Seemed harmless, but I'm grasping at straws here!

 

[tonyshuman]

It sounds something like our Benjamin did before he passed away of heart attack/respiratory arrest due to a thymoma, a tumor in the chest region that was putting pressure on his heart and lungs. The thing where he kind of falls over is him passing out/fainting due to not getting enough oxygen to the brain. I would guess that your bunny had a heart attack or some serious respiratory issue. If he had a heart attack, the heart is not pumping well enough to get blood where it needs to be to get oxygenated in the lungs and get oxygen to the brain, so he's sitting in a way to get more oxygen in him. If he is having a serious respiratory issue, like a lower respiratory infection, advanced pneumonia, lung collapse or some other trauma-related injury, his lungs may not be working efficiently, leading him to take deeper breaths and still not get enough oxygen.

I think you need to have an x-ray done to see if his heart is enlarged, if there is anything abnormal-looking with the lungs, and if there may be a mass in the thorax area. The reason we found out Benjamin had thymoma, a large cancerous tumor in his chest cavity (thorax area), is that he would have sneezing fits that antibiotics and allergy medicine could not treat. We had an x-ray done to see if tooth roots or something were causing nasal irritation, and the vet found the thymoma putting pressure on his windpipe, lungs and heart that way. He was otherwise a healthy-looking bunny except for the week before he passed away, when he got a bit less active and ate less, and the day he died, which started out with him looking not as alert, progressed to tipping his head forward ("passing out") occasionally along with more labored breathing, which eventually got more frequent and he had a final cardiac/pulmonary arrest and passed away. Now I know it may seem that I see thymoma everywhere, but I do think it is more common than people think. Based on your description and the bunny being a giant breed, I would expect an enlarged heart/heart attack first, as thymomas seem to occur most frequently in dwarf breeds. Giant breeds are more likely to have heart issues because their hearts have to work harder.

If possible, take him to a vet school. They may have access to other diagnostic equipment. We had MRI done on Benjamin to see the extent of the tumor as it was more of a shadow on x-ray and not very obvious. The MRI was very illustrative in understanding how sick he was. About 75% of his chest cavity was occupied by tumor, and he was acting 95% normal, even doing athletic things like binkies which you wouldn't expect with such reduced space for heart and lung in the chest. Your normal vet though should be able at least to do an x-ray and/or listen to the heart at the very least. Usually if he's had a heart attack that is causing symptoms this serious, it should be affecting his heartbeat. If you are too concerned about taking him in due to that causing more stress, you can get a stethoscope or have the vet make a house call. I am sorry but this sounds very serious. Best wishes for you and your big guy.

 

[Big Boy Wallace]

Sorry to hear about your little guy, sounds so tragic to have lost him so quickly.
I guess the fear I have is that he had such a bad reaction to going to the vet the first time, I worry that another trip would do him in! I'm so torn on what to do! My roommate happens to be a vet tech though, and she can take a look at him and listen to his heart tomorrow is she brings the equipment home.
Apparently from listening to his lungs yesterday, the vet thinks it is only an upper respiratory infection, and that I caught it fairly early. She also listened to his heart and said it sounded fine, and she also felt all over his body for any lumps or abnormalities. That isn't to say something could have been missed by a strictly physical exam.
What is worrying me is that he seems much more lethargic as the day is going on. He came out of his cage this morning, then when I tried to get him to go back (usually a "go home" does the trick), he took two hops then lay down again. I actually had to pick him up to put him back (which is VERY odd because he hates being held, so no protest was alarming).
When I have his cage open now, he doesn't want to come out, but kind of draped his head out of the cage. There was something strange about the way he did it that I can't put my finger on.

I'm so afraid that I'm watching him go before my eyes, but I don't know what to do about it! If I bring him in, it could be it, but no action seems wrong too! My poor little man!

 

[tonyshuman]

Poor guy. I wonder if the URI got really bad really quickly due to the stress of the trip? One way to improve a bunny's breathing is nebulizing treatments. We did this some for Benjamin with just saline solution because he had some pneumonia related to the pressure on his lungs. Nebulizing can also be used in serious respiratory infection cases to deliver the meds directly to the lungs. This is some info on a case where they did that: http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/respira_main.htm

We got the nebulizer off of Craigslist, someone was selling it because they got it for their asthma but no longer needed it. Your roommate might also have access to one at the clinic and might be able to bring it home. Alternately, you could do somewhat of a warm, moist air treatment by putting him in the bathroom with the room full of steam from the shower. I'm so sorry; it is so hard to tell what to do in this situation.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

ray:

 

[Big Boy Wallace]

So Wallace's condition has become critical. I called the vet this morning and described his newest symptoms. He has gone off food and water, lost a great deal of coordination, seems weak and lethargic, and has started deficating and urinating on himself. Also last night, he wouldn't settle, which is unlike him.

I brought him back to the clinic today, since he was doing soo poorly it was better to have him looked at an risk stress than nothing at all. The vet seems to think it was a bacterial respiratory infection, which may have spread to other parts of his body, including his nervous system. He was given IV fluids, and a sort of mega dose of antibiotics as a hail mary sort of thing.

Given his condition, she didn't give him a very positive prognosis. She said he sort of has 24 hours to make a turn around and show improvement (which he should if the antibiotics will do anything), so we may have to resort to having him put to sleep so he isn't in pain or discomfort any more.

I'm just so heartbroken over the whole thing, and how radily he has gone from being a bit of a jerk in the most endearing ways, to being on his death bed. I'm trying to stay optimistic, and wait for an improvement in his condition, but seeing how bad he really is, it's hard to stay positive.

Thanks everyone for your input and concern, but it seems out of my hands now. I will let you know how everything eventually plays out.

 

[Apebull]

ray:

 

[Chrisdoc]

I´ll be praying for him and really hoping for some good news. You´ve done the best you possibly could for him and he´s a lucky guy to have you whatever happens.

 

[tonyshuman]

I'm so sorry he is doing so poorly. I hope the treatment he's getting will help him pull through this. It sounds like he's in good hands and will have the best chance of getting through this. Best wishes

 

[HEM]

We are so sorry to hear about Wallace
We are hoping that the meds help the poor guy out
We are thinking of you and Wallace