Three-Way Bonding

[Usagi_Chan]

I haven't been here for a while. I still have Thumper and Pegasus. I have a new bunny and I want to bond him with the other two. I got Nigel about a month ago. For a few weeks I had him in another room that is separated from the room that Pegasus and Thumper occupy by a fence. I figured seeing and smelling each other for a while might help.

About a week ago I started putting Thumper and Nigel in a bathtub together, which was how I bonded Thumper and Pegasus. Thumper is very obviously the alpha bunny over Pegasus so I figured that I should try to get Thumper to accept Nigel before I concerned myself with Pegasus who is a VERY laid back mini lop. In fact, I suspect that if Thumper accepts Nigel, Pegasus will not object at all.

At first Thumper and Nigel fought but now they are licking each other quite a bit. They appear to be bonded while in the tub. So therein lies the problem.

When I take them out of the tub and put them on the bathroom floor, very soon Thumper tries to chase and mount and Nigel gets upset and nips her. Then a serious fight breaks out that I have to stop. When I put them back in their respective areas, Thumper stalks the fence and marks the border (pees) She also pees and leaves droppings when I put them in the tub together but she eventually yields and licks him. She has tried (successfully) to mount Nigel in the tub but I'm right there to reassure Nigel with petting his ears that it's all right. He accepts mounting then.

My plans now are to continue with the tub and keep trying to get them together outside the tub. Does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions?

Breeds: Thumper is a 4 1/2 lb mini rex, Nigel is a 4 lb Jersey Wooly and Pegasus, as I mentioned is a 7 lb. Mini lop

Pictures are here
Thumper: http://www.bob-betts.com/main.php?g2_itemId=11500
Pegasus: http://www.bob-betts.com/main.php?g2_itemId=11504
Nigel: http://www.bob-betts.com/main.php?g2_itemId=17134

 

[Eli]

Does Thumper associate the bathroom as his own territory? Perhaps there is a room in the house that is more neutral or even perhaps outside in an x-pen?

Usually, it is suggested that you keep them in separate pens where they can see each other but not touch each other. Then you bring the pens closer and closer where they eat parallel each other. Then when you think it is safe, you clean everything as best you can with deodorizers and such and rearrange their furniture and toys or even get new ones so that they are in neutral territory. This way, both bunnies don't get territorial much since they think it is new territory. Also, you may want to try clicker-training methods. They teach you to click & treat every time the bunnies show affection as a reward. This way, they continue to reinforce the good behavior. They also suggested rubbing a little banana in the other bunny's ear to get them to lick back. I would be careful if your bunny nips you when they get a treat though because then it may not be such a good idea.

 

[Usagi_Chan]

Thumper has not been allowed in the bathroom so I don't believe see sees it as her territory. However she does seem to be marking the tub as hers by peeing and leaving pellets when I put her in there with Nigel. Thumper is a typical rex, smart. She can sometimes out-smart me. (If I were being 100% honest I'd admit that she outsmarts me most of the time.)

I hadn't thought of clicker-training, thanks. I haven't practiced with her lately but I did clicker-train her a few years ago to do a number of tricks. I just tested her. She has a great memory and remembers all her tricks. I didn't clicker-train Pegasus. The dear lad is sweet and very cute but dumb as a post He get's by on his looks.

Pegasus and Thumper share the living-room with me. They are always loose in this well bunny-proofed room, even when I go out. They have a cage and come and go into it as they wish. The door of the cage is always open. So the room has their smell everywhere and I seriously doubt that I could remove it. To clarify, it's not poop or pee smell. I keep their litter-boxes clean. They do leave some poos around as I suspect most bunnies do.

None of my bunnies ever nip me. Nigel is quite strange because he doesn't mind being picked up at all. My other two allow me to pick them up but are very happy when I put them down. Getting picked up is not their favorite activity.

Nigel and Pegasus are both male and all of them are neutered/spayed

 

[Usagi_Chan]

Still haven't got there Can anyone help with this?

 

[juliew19673]

I'm SO in your same possition; Unfortunatly do not have any knowledgeable advice... I have a bonded duo amd am thinking of adding my foster male bun to the group.
The female is the Alpha, but the new bun has, what I see as, "Alpha Bun" behavior and do not want to witness a fight.

Where I live, in Los Angeles there are 3 reputable individuals that I woulD trust dropping off all 3 buns and they would "Get" bonded and then come home to me but would cost me $600. AnD then I wouldn't be there to see it happen.

Hope and will watch your thread here to see what's suggesteDd and to at least, champion you on your journey.

Wishing you every success and let me know what you find works and what doesn't.

 

[Usagi_Chan]

They were doing fairly well in the bathtub and one time, after their tub session, I noticed that Thumper went over to the fence separating them and laid down there right by the fence. It looked like she wanted to be with him and was ready to accept him so I put Nigel in her area. Immediately a fight broke out under the table among a bunch of chair legs. By the time I got to them and separated them, I had to take Thumper to the vet to get her sewed up. $350 later (vet bill) they are still not bonded.

It seems to me that the living room that Thumper and Pegasus command is just too big and there are too many places for them to start fights and I couldn't get to them fast enough to prevent injuries. They free-roam that well bunny-proofed area, day, night and even when I'm away. Tonight I put Pegasus and Thumper in their cage and I have Nigel in a corral in the kitchen end of the living room. That area is tiled. I had tried him in their area earlier this evening while they were in the cage but he started marking the wall-to-wall carpeting so I put him in the kitchen corral. I really don't want my home to smell like a rabbit-hutch so continuous marking is just not acceptable.

I tried the clicker-training but it just doesn't work. You have to click and then treat, which breaks up the behavior that you are trying to encourage -- licking. It's like trying to talk with your mouth full -- Thumper can't lick and chew her treat at the same time. it just doesn't work.

Most things I've read say to clean the area so that the scent is minimized. I just can't see how I can do that with a 12x18 or so room. Besides, as soon as it's cleaned, they start marking and thus smelling up and staking out their respective territories.

I think the only reasonable thing to do is continue with the bathtub and hope I can figure out when they are ready to be friends. I do have a pretty good perception of them. That is, I can sense by watching body language, ears and the fire in their eyes when they are intent on killing each other and are ready to start.

Pegasus is far less aggressive. In the tub Nigel seems to start it with him by tapping him on the head with his teeth, not a bite, a hard tap. Pegasus then leaps in surprise. I've been able to sense when Nigel is about to hit Pegasus and tell him forcefully , "NO!!" and tap him on the head, not hard but enough to command his attention. Nigel's breed (Jersey Woolly) has a lot of Netherland dwarf in it and they are often quite nervous and even aggressive. Perhaps Nigel is attacking first out of fear because Pegasus is so much bigger than him.

I also grab any of them and force them down if they start aggression and tell them, "NO, NO fighting!!" I read somewhere that when you shove them down like that you are showing them you are the "alpha bunny." That does stop any aggression and they seem to cool it.

Maybe I'm doing ok, I really don't know. I bonded Pegasus and Thumper and that took about 2 weeks. I have at least a month and a half, maybe two into getting this three way bond accomplished and it seems I'm not there yet.

Nigel is a foster. I volunteer at the SPCA and he came in with his very long hair severely matted. I took him home to get the mats out and told the SPCA I'd keep him if I could bond him with my two. He is REAL sweet. He loves to be held and watches TV with me, all the while licking my chin and face. He is incredibly social and loving so I really don't want to part with him. Thumper and Pegasus are also wonderful bunnies in different ways and I love them dearly.

I'm sure ready to listen to any ideas that anyone might have.

 

[juliew19673]

I think you "Got" it! As far as bonding them. You have the patience, the ability to "read" body behaviour' just sounds like it will take A LOT of time.

The 1 thing that stood out to me was when you said that you would grab the bun by the neck and point his nsoe down, (I think), and say "NO", I've never seen any Rabbit be vocal when telling another bun "I'm in charge." Which you were doing. Might rethink the sound and just try the re-correction.

If no one else chimes in ever with tried and true knowledge, I personally think your handling your "Lot" well and am looking forward to hearing of your success.

 

[Usagi_Chan]

I gave up on bonding them a few months ago. Thumper is quite jealous and Nigel is a VERY unusual bunny which I'll describe in another post. I'm somewhat afraid that he might change if he's bonded. He really loves me and people in general.

 

[isabelly]

I read somewhere that if you create a bonding experience, it'll bring them together. For example, if they don't like car rides, put them all in a box together and go for a ride around the block with a driver. It's kind of like going through a shared, stressful experience with another person, it forces each to rely on the other for comfort and bond. I've never actually tried it though.

 

[MiniLopHop]

I tried bonding a trio and ended up giving up and getting another rabbit. Now I have two seperate pairs. The girls just would not share their man. The larger female would chase the smaller one away from the food so she was getting too thin. I think given more time I could have forced it, but I didn't think it was worth the stress to them or me.

Best of luck, the stressful situations is what got them not to kill eachother, so it's worth a try if you are still interested.

 

[Usagi_Chan]

I meant to post about the new bunny but got caught up in other things. He (Nigel) is a very unusual bunny. I know because I have been a volunteer at the SPCA for three years now and have seen a lot of bunnies. He is far more social than any other bunny I have ever seen. On thinking it over I became somewhat afraid he'd lose his very special qualities if he were bonded with other bunnies so I decided not to try to bond him.. I'm off to post about him