still worried about bailey

[hailiejade]

ages ago baileys cecals went a bit weird so took him to vets and he was given a fibre paste and a gut injection (which they never asked , and i was not happy about)

while he had the fibre paste everything went back to normal but ive noticed in the last couple of weeks hes always really messy on his bottom.

he has normal round hard droppings , and does not appear ill , is lively and eating and drinking well , but his cecals keep getting squashed and covering his bottom and tail to the point they are getting matted in the fur and pulling on the skin and i am having to bath , cut and combe the area every day , aswell as it not being comfortable for him am paranoid about fly strike seeing as he almost always has mess on his bum

its not like diaroeha or watery or runny and only happens in the morning.

ive noticed that fresh food seems to make it worse.

hes also started going for wees outside his litterbox on laminate flooring which keeps staining his fur so having to bath him daily for that as well.

lastly on occasions his eyes have looked a bit red/brown and watery around the edges , ive been bathing them with sterile water and they clean up but then it comes back.

i did go back to the vets but they didnt seem to think there was anything wrong.although they are not my normal vets and i dont rate them highly.

i am planning on taking him to my normal vets as soon as i can as they have more experience with rabbits , but as it is a distance away and i dont drive i have to rely on some one to take me as going by public transport is not possible when i have a 1 yr old who has to come with me and my partner doesnt get back from work till the vets is shut as he has to commute 7 days a week.

any ideas what could be up with him

 

[Alexah]

I think, most importantly, that if you think there may be something wrong - trust your instincts and get him in to see your normal, rabbit savvy vet.

The eyes automatically make me think that it could be the urine affecting him. Rabbit urine is very strong and if he is peeing outside of his litter pan, they fumes may be getting to him and causing his eyes to run and burn. It seems plausible to me, but I'd definitely run it past a vet as it could also be a sign of something more serious such as an infection.

As for the cecals, have you been able to determine whether they are excess cecals or just his "norm" at this point? I'm not a vet and am not positive, but if he was on a fiber paste that was helpful, it would (potentially) stand to reason that he needs additional fiber in his every day diet. What are you feeding him? Check the protein (too much can cause excess cecals) and the fiber (not enough could be an issue) content in his pelleted feed. Also, what types of hay and fresh foods is he being offered?

I hope that Bailey really is okay, but I don't think that what he's experiencing can be termed as normal and that may take an additional vet visit along with some investigative work by you to fix. Please let us know what happens and know that you and Bailey are in our thoughts.

 

[hailiejade]

i think they are his normal cecals as he still attempts to eat them despite being caught in his fur , i was worried that mayb as they are getting caught in his fur hes not getting enough of them to eat which is causing him a little digestive upset , which could lead to a potentially bigger problem but the local vet i saw didnt seem to think this was the case , saying that she didnt seem to know what cecals were so didnt really have high hopes on her knowing much about rabbits , but its getting to the point now that i wake in the morning to see his whole underneath of tail and top of bottom is one big dried poo , fur ball , matted mess that takes an hr or 2 to try and fix and even then i dont get all of it as some of the fur is pulled that tight he wont let me nr it , poor thing .

as for his diet , he has plenty of hay , meadow and timothy with added herbs etc

his pellet food is beaphar care plus

as for fresh fuit and vegetables

carrots he only has in small quantities(2-3 slices every other day or his cecals get runny )

brocolli , spinach , apple , peach again in small quantities as too much fresh upsets him

 

[Haley]

Im so sorry to hear Bailey still isnt well. I would also be worried if he has mooshy poops and you think he doesnt seem himself. I would try to get him to your normal vets as soon as possible.

My first idea is to cut out all fruits and veggies since those tend to make things worse when you have excess cecals or mushy poops. I would feed him a diet of limited pellets, lots of timothy hay, and lots of water. Im not familiar with the pellet youre using but it doesnt have any colored pieces in it, does it? You'll want to have him on a timothy-based pellet and he should get about 1/4 cup a day per 5 lbs of body weight. Any changes should be made very gradually.

But it would also be good to have a vet look at him to be sure. As you know, bunnies can go downhill so fast.

Hope he's better soon

Haley

PS Be sure to keep him extra hydrated if he has mushy poops- childrens electrolyte drinks like pedialyte work great.

 

[gentle giants]

I agree with Haley, I would cut out all fruits and veggies for a few days anyway, to see if that helps any. As for the litterbox habits changing, I'm not sure. Have you changed the type of litter or anything like that? I would definatly get him to a good rabbit-savvy vet to see if you can get these issues cleared up.

 

[Haley]

How is Bailey doing? Any progress?

 

[hailiejade]

i stopped giving him veggies and he was a lot better but he had one of those popcorn stick things for bunnies and his bum got all messy again so have booked an appointment with an exotic vet friday to take a look at him , i keep bathing him and have cut the fur away around his bum to stop it sticking and matting as am paranoid about flystrike but wondering whether his teeth are too long and hes having trouble grooming himself which is why hes so messy as hes been constantly chewing everything recently and caught him the other day rubbing his teeth on the metal bottom of the clothes airer

 

[tonyshuman]

Other people's posts have been really helpful. I wanted to add that those popcorn treats aren't good for bunnies, especially those with sensitive tummies. All the carbs in them can make stomach issues even worse. Fruits and veggies are better as a treat than anything that is made primarily of carbohydrates, like most treats marketed toward rabbits.

You will want to stick to a diet that is mostly fiber, water, and all the vitamins he needs. Lots of hay, water, and a small amount (1/8 of a cup is enough) of a good pellet should take care of that. Like others, I don't know about the pellet you're feeding but it should have at least 25% fiber. We have a whole thread somewhere on which pellets are good choices around the world.

The vet can help you get his teeth in order if they're a problem, and should be able to help you set a good diet. I wanted to ask if maybe he was a little overweight and has trouble reaching his bottom to get at the cecals? That can be a problem in obese rabbits. Also, is he on a wire floor? That can make getting at them hard to do, and they might fall through or stick to his feet in that case.

Good luck at the vet's, and hope you can get this straightened out!

 

[hailiejade]

hes not over weight and doesnt have wire flooring he lives indoors and is only caged at night and then sleeps in a very large hutch ,

The Beaphar Care+ range is the first, totally complete, super premium food available for the small pet, offering the highest possible quality and formulation known to man. The high quality proteins and Omega 3 and 6 fatty acids ensures that an animal will have a healthy and long life with out experiencing the diseases caused by nutritional deficiencies. The foods also contain prebiotics and Yucca extracts and the chelated minerals improve absorption and supply to the body.
Being developed in cooperation with veterinary surgeons, dieticians and leading rodent experts this food has to be the very best available on the market today.
this is the pellet he is on

 

[hailiejade]

i cant find anywhere that says what the nutritional content is but under feed materials it says.

cereals , derivatives of vegetable origin(cont.yucca schidigera min 0.2 %.echinacea min 0.05% , vegetables(fructo oligosaccharide min 0.0076% , minerals , seeds , milk and milk derivatives , mannan oligosaccharide (from cellwalls of yeast) , algae(spirulina min 0.0075%)

other than that it just says

vit e (cell protection system protects your rabbits cells

dental function special crunchy ingredients

yucca schidigera helps to minimise the odour of faeces and urine in your house

omega 6/omega 3 fatty acids

prevents selective feeding

mos and fos pre-biotics to enhance intestinal flora for optimal digestion

feeding guidelines.

small/mini-pole/dutch/dwarf 60 grams per day

dutch / lop 85 grams per day

rex 115 grams

giant rabbit 170-450 grams

english giant 340-450 grams

it was the feed that both my bunnies were on when i got them so carried on with it rather than changing , my other bunny is fine and has no problems , i did try changing bailey to burgess excel but it made him worse as did russel rabbit

 

[tonyshuman]

Glad to hear it's not his weight or cage that are causing problems!

Hmm... maybe a member from the UK could be of more assistance, but here most pellets that are a "complete diet" or having "dental function special ingredients" aren't the best. A pellet should be mostly made of timothy hay, with as little grain or cereal product as possible. Also milk is not digestible for bunnies. Here's our Pellets Library article: http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=36596&forum_id=26&jump_to=481688#p481688

In general, a good pellet will have ~14% protein, more than 25% fiber, 1-2% fat. A "good" pellet is Oxbow BBT, a VERY bad one is Kaytee Rainbow.

From what I can glean from the list of UK pellet brands, Oxbow BBT (which you can also get in the US, it's what I feed and it's a forum favorite) is good, and Allen & Page is probably ok. Maybe someone else can help you a little more with the UK brands.

Hope you can get this sorted out!:bunnybutt:

 

[hailiejade]

just got back from the vets.

he seems to think it could be a dietry issue , he cleaned baileys bottom up and has suggested to stop feeding him pellets and fruit and veg and only give him hay and grass for a week to see if it makes a difference , hes also prescribed protexin bio lapis sachets for the week and a painkiller (metacam) incase its to do with back problems and thats the reason his cecals are stuck to him all the time as it could hurt him to reach them , he checked his teeth and they are fine , have also been given rear guard to protect against flystrike and have to bring a sample of his cecals to test when i go back.

so hopefully things will get better for bailey now , hes already much happier at not having a huge clump of dried poo stuck to his tail

 

[Haley]

Glad to hear the vet visit went well!

I would be careful with anything sugary..even be cautious with most fruits. A lot of bunnies with GI issues need to stay on a diet of very limited pellets and lots of hay and nothing else. Things like rabbit treats (that are very high in sugar and carbs) can really set them off.

Heres hoping hes on his way to a healthy recovery!

 

[tonyshuman]

Sounds like your vet is good! Glad to hear you got some help.