So far with daily bonding

[renaelock]

So the first time Polo and Potter were together was at the rescue and they did great, both were curious and Potter was low to the ground. The rescue lady said that Potter is a submissive bun and I've been told from Polo's previous owner that he is dominant so I thought it'd be a great match. The first time bonding at my home went well because both were scared. They would tussle a little bit but both ended up in a basket because they were fearful - both have never been in the bathroom before. The second day I pet one while the other explored and then pet the other bun so the other could explore. Polo would sometimes put his head down and look at Potter and get a little closer (it looked like he was going to bite) so I'd blow on him to prevent any fighting. Today was the worst - the buns would look around and then one would go into "sniff" which is what I thought but then ended up with hairpulling and some circling so I got the water bottle out (spay doesn't work so I just kept flinging some water at them). So, today I noticed it's not just Polo being a jerk, Potter went up to Polos back and bit him so Polo got him back (but Polo did start it and thats why I think Potter bit him when his back was turned) and I just started flinging water and telling them to knock it off. Then they went their seperate ways for probably 30 seconds so then I put them back in their cages. I'm reading as much as I can about bonding and I know it can take a while. I want to try the "buns in box on washer during spin cycle" and sitting them side by side and petting both. Is there something I am doing wrong or anything I should know that I may not have read online or any personal experiences that might help or give me hope? Both are neutered. I know 3 days is nothing but I feel like I am observing both buns seaching out the other just to find the perfect time to bite. Hmm, off to do more reading... Thanks for reading my "short story", I appreciate any comments.

 

[kirbyultra]

Hey there,
Welcome to the wonderfully trying world of bunny bonding.

I have a lot of comments about bonding because I've seen a miserable pair and my current "promising" pair as well as pairs that have been successful interact. I've gotten a lot of good coaching, read about a lot of interesting techniques, tips and tricks, and RO has been hugely supportive of my ongoing story of bonding my 2 buns... so, I know what you mean. It's stressful!

I assume since your bunnies were rescue buns that they're already neutered/spayed? Is it a boy and girl pair? Same sex pairs who did not grow up with each other tend to be more difficult to bond.

Fur pulling and circling are undesirable behaviors when bonding because they're kind of fighting. Some people recommend the "spin cycle" stress method before putting them together in the neutral space for bonding. So give that a shot. If they're stressed, they might seek comfort from each other and lead into a more productive bonding session. But I will say that even my pair, they're pretty docile, were hard to control once I put into a cardboard box for stressing. So be prepared for the buns to try to fight being on the washing machine. Maybe put a towel over them so they won't try to jump off.

Another thing you want to try is, pt one bun into the bathroom at a time. Put one in, give him a few minutes to explore. Then pick him up and put the other bun in. Giving each bun a chance to explore may also make the session more productive because they're already familiar with the space.

In the early sessions, do whatever you can to make them comfortable with each other. Squat there with them, pet them. Make sure they can see each other when you pet them. It may take more than a few tries but if you convince them that they can be in a space and neither bun attacks the other, they will feel safer around each other. I've been told that early on you should try to make the experience as positive as possible. Prevent fighting before it happens. If they start to circle, be on high alert because somebun's going to start to pull fur (from the sound of what you described).

I hope it goes better for you.

 

[elrohwen]

I totally recommend stressing before all early sessions. I had luck with a quick 2 minute stress for my guys - I'd put them in a laundry basket and bounce it on my knees for 2 minutes.

For longer stressing, washing machines and cars work well. I would recommend making a cube out of NIC grids, putting a thick towel down on the floor of it, and using that for stressing. They'll be stressed by being able to see all around them, and they'll be forced to be close together. I know people who attach a strap to their cube and walk around the house with it for a while. Stressing is a fantastic tool.

Helen, I have to disagree with you on one point though - I wouldn't let them be in the bonding space alone. The last thing you want is for someone to get territorial of the space, so they should only be in it together and should associate it with each other. For the same reason, stressing should always be done with both buns at the same time. I would start in the bathtub, since it's a small space and neither should find much to explore. You want to throw them off their game, so the less comfortable they are with the bonding location, the more likely they are to turn to one another for comfort.

One of my buns isa total pushover, but as soon as we moved them out of the neutral bonding space and into the living room, he became much more demanding and humpy. It was fine because they were fairly well bonded already and no fighting resulted, but for a different pair of bunnies it could have been bad. So that element of comfort in a space can really work against you early on.

I do agree with you though to try and keep early sessions positive. Stressing might not seem positive, because it's stressful, but it's allowing the bunnies to positively associate with one another and not have any fighting or circling.

I am big on keeping early sessions positive, but at some point they need to be able to interact and work things out. You don't want to ever let them fight, but remember that humping and mild chasing/hair pulling is all normal. If it happens and doesn't escalate to a fight, try to let it go. This is the hardest part for me as I'm an interferer, and it takes a while to trust that they won't escalate it to a fight, but I will say that bonding can go faster if you let them work things out in their own language as long as it's not violent.

 

[kirbyultra]

elrohwen wrote:

Helen, I have to disagree with you on one point though - I wouldn't let them be in the bonding space alone. The last thing you want is for someone to get territorial of the space, so they should only be in it together and should associate it with each other. For the same reason, stressing should always be done with both buns at the same time. I would start in the bathtub, since it's a small space and neither should find much to explore. You want to throw them off their game, so the less comfortable they are with the bonding location, the more likely they are to turn to one another for comfort.

I get that concept, and maybe this "one bun at a time" space introduction was specifically recommended for my boys at the time. My buns Toby and Kirby had been running thought that hallway for months and it's not new territory. But neither bun owned it and neither bun had ever been sectioned off in it. So perhaps that is why the people at my rescue recommended me putting one bun at a time to "get to know" the surroundings. Additionally, I know my bunnies and they are both pretty panicky. The less time they spend panicking in the hallway, the more time they can spend focusing on each other. In the early stages of my bonding game, the sessions were short and VERY difficult to keep positive so we were looking for ways to keep it productive.

 

[elrohwen]

That makes more sense then. I guess my own bonding philosophy is the more thrown off they are by the new surroundings, the better But everything depends on the buns in question.

 

[renaelock]

Thanks for the comments. Both of the buns are males, one is 3 years old and the other is 9 months, they are both neutered and have been neutered early on. I did do the stress thing today in the box. I used a tote so they can't see anything but may try a open top crate next time. I did two sessions today one in the am and one in the pm. I did try the spin cycle but it did nothing for Polo. He's traveled a lot so he is use to car rides so the spin cycle is like a ride in the park. So I ended up putting the box on the floor and shaking like an earthquake. In the pm Potter, the new guy, did groom Polo a little bit but Polo just nips at Potter and then Potter freaks out and gets him back so they both have at it. In this case, I just shook the box harder and then had some petting time with praise while still in the box. Tomorrow I am going to do the box scare and then try them in the bathroom directly after. It's hard tokeep the experience positive. Polo is still getting introduced to veggies and such so I am scared if I put a whole salad out there for the two of them to munch he will get an upset tummy. Any other ways I can make it positive? I think too that if the box scare doesn't work after a while, I am going to vacuum around them in the box. both really dislike the vacuum. I do think today went well though, from my beginner in bonding standpoint.

 

[renaelock]

OMG, I probably should post a new thread but I thought it might be better to just add? Anyway, Best Bonding Session Ever. I did the spin cycle in the box and then let them run around in the bathroom (Their neutral bonding spot) and they did SO good. I only had to squirt Polo a couple of times but Potter never bit back so it didn't escalate into a fight. Both buns took time out to groom themselves too! A couple of times Polo was looking at Potter and thinking about going after him but he would stop himself - one time his ears were back/lowered and you could tell he was thinking about it and then his ears went up and he played with the ball instead. The second time he did a lunge at Potter but stopped mid stream and backed up again and just sat there and eventually started grooming himself. That was so awesome, I wish I brought my camera. I just had to post about the experience. I'm sure bonding bun stories are the same old thing but it's certainly new to me. Thanks for reading if you do!

 

[kirbyultra]

Glad it was a good session!!!! It feels great when they do well

 

[elrohwen]

Yay! Great session!

I like adding a pile of hay during bonding - it gives them something calming to do and eating together is a positive experience. I would avoid veggies for now because they're a little tastier than hay and could cause a territorial response in Polo if he feels like they are *his* veggies.

It sounds like they're in a very good place! How long was your session? I would just go for longer and longer, but continue to do some stressing.

I also found it was helpful to stress mid-session if someone was getting too humpy or keyed up. I would throw them both in a laundry basket and shake them around. When I put them back down, they had forgotten about going after each other.

 

[renaelock]

elrohwen wrote:

Yay! Great session!

I like adding a pile of hay during bonding - it gives them something calming to do and eating together is a positive experience. I would avoid veggies for now because they're a little tastier than hay and could cause a territorial response in Polo if he feels like they are *his* veggies.

It sounds like they're in a very good place! How long was your session? I would just go for longer and longer, but continue to do some stressing.

I also found it was helpful to stress mid-session if someone was getting too humpy or keyed up. I would throw them both in a laundry basket and shake them around. When I put them back down, they had forgotten about going after each other.

Thanks for the tip about the veggies! I'll make sure to use just hay for a while. The session lasted 15 minutes. I wanted to end on a good note so I didn't want to push it, I'll work up to longer and longer time together. I'll have to remember the mid-session stress, I LOVE the stress technique - my new best friend!

 

[elrohwen]

The mid-session stressing also saved me a lot of stress. When Hannah would not stop humping, I didn't know what to do, but once I realized I could put them in the basket and make them stop, I calmed down because I had a plan.