Snuffles? Or something else?

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lilangelhotots

lilangelhotots

Well-Known Member
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Jan 21, 2008
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Location
, Texas, USA
Hi Everyone,

I just purchased a Dwarf Hotot buck last week, when I looked at him to buy he did have a little bit of a runny nose. I didn't think much of it because it was very hot that day and with the traveling maybe he was just a tad stressed. Well after I purchase him and get him home he starts sneezing and white watery mucous is around his nares. His eyes were watering too. My question is this, could it be snuffles??

This buck is 4 years old and was kept in an enclosed garage so could it just be that he lived in a high ammonia environment for years and is trying to adjust? He has been on Terramycin since Friday and this morning he looks dramatically better. He is inside away frommy other rabbitsand I'm using strictsanitation measure to prevent the spread of whatever this is.

If this is snuffles when is he no longer contagious? Can snuffles be cured or will it come back? Basically, I'm stuck with the decision should I keep him if he gets better or send him back to the breeder?? I love this little guy's type but I don't want to risk infecting my other buns.

Thursday(day 1):

449307864_jfSRL-M.jpg


Sunday(day 3):

449307867_Go4Ki-M.jpg


Today(day 4)-much better, the fur is dry but you still see the mucous up in his nose:

449307874_bughz-M.jpg


Thank you so much for any and all help!!




 
Poor little dude. I'm glad the terramycin is working for you, just be aware that it is very mild and also (IMO) over-used by some breeders so not all infections will respond to it.

Snuffles is a common name for an upper respiratory infection. There are a number of different bacteria species that can cause it. It can be spread to other rabbits BUT most of them have already been exposed anyway. The only problem comes in when you get an especially strong strain or one that is drug-resistant.

Ammonia is also a definite cause of runny eyes/nose. Ever walked into a reallyunkempt barn or worked with cleaning ammonia? OMG it stings! It's possible that is the problem if his breeder had too many rabbits in too small of a space or wasn't cleaning enough. In that case it will clear up over time. The only way to know for sure if it's an infection is to have a vet do a culture test.
 
i dont know that much about it,... but i remeber reading some where that it is very very contaisius. (sp?)

so i would separate them, and ring ur vet... i dont know weather this is true info, but to make sure...

hope this is correct and helps:biggrin2:

good luck
 
Yep, like the others have said, I'd get atest done at the vet's to confirm it is a pathagen, aka an upper Respiratory infection.;)

Please keep us updated!

 
No reason to seperate the other would already be exposed. Also just because one became sick doesn't mean the other will. It is something that is already in them. A weak or strained system can sometimes lead to a over abundance of it. Than making them sick.

I have one who is high pasteurella and not one of the others has it. Not even the one he plays with.


 
just wanted to let you know that snuffles is highly contajus. I had a rabbit that had it, i treated him with anti-botics and he would look better when he came off but it came right back again. if your rabbit is around other rabbits quareteen it imeadetly. i would put the rabbit down imeadetly. taking them to the vet wont help, there is no cure for snuffles. also keep in mind that i selectively breed rabbits.


-hannah
 
Tinkerbell Rabbitry wrote:
taking them to the vet wont help, there is no cure for snuffles.
Click to expand...
I took my rabbits to the vet for snuffles 3 years ago - they were fine after a course of antibiotics.

Rabbits who have snuffles do NOT need to be put to sleep - this is an "old-time" thinking of many rabbitries and breeders.

Many people have had rabbits that had a case of snuffles and they got over it.

I'm sorry about the rabbit you had to put down.

We do have lots of good information in our library section on how to treat ailments.


 
I'm sorry, but the idea that an upper respiratory infection can't be cured and requires euthanasia is false. Some rabbits with poor immune systems may have recurring problems throughout their lives, but most rabbits can be cured of URIs. It is simply a bacterial infection. It's best if a vet does a culture and sensitivity test to find out which antibiotic will work best, especially if the first attempt at treatment didn't work. It's pretty common now for the bacteria that cause URIs to be resistant to common, frequently-used medications like Baytril. But there are a lot of other possible antibiotics to use including injected penicillin, injected Baytril (which sometimes works better than oral Baytril), Zithromax, chloramphenicol (sp?), etc.

Please, do some more reading here:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12016&forum_id=10

I know you may have been told otherwise by other people, but a little research shows that URIs are treatable and certainly not a reason for euthanasia.
 
Let me clarify a bit about what I posted earlier. "Snuffles" is a catch all term for rabbit upper respiratory infection. Yes, some are treatable, it depends what the bacteria or virus is that is causing the infection. My vet charges $165.00 to do one culture, then extra for treatment. This can be very costly just to identify which bacteria you are dealing with. Most rabbit owners cannot afford all the testing, no matter how much we love our bunnies.

The main bacteria responsible for respiratory infections in rabbits is Pasteurella multocida. There is a lot of disagreement in the breeding and veterinary community as to weather Pasteurella multocida is carried in all rabbits and just surfaces during times of stress. There are also several different strains of this bacteria. There is also much disagreement as to effective treatment. The one thing that everyone agreed upon was that all strains of Pasteurella multocida are very contagious. This bacteria can also show up as infection in the eyes, head tilt,(neurological damage from the infection) in the reproductive system and abscesses under the skin. ANY discharge from a rabbits nose needs to be taken very seriously as this a sign of illness, not just stress.

We researched extensively, vets, breeders, scientific journals, ect. Every one of the sources said that there is a high mortality rate from this bacteria and that it is very difficult to treat permanently. Most times long term treatment with antibiotics and quarantine from other animals is necessary.

Our personal experience was that we tried antibiotics for the vet recommended amount of time, the infection would clear then within several days of stopping the antibiotics, the infection would return. So back to the antibiotics again. This went on for quite some time. It was a very difficult decision to euthanize my rabbit. I have 12 other rabbits to consider and every day there was an increasing risk of spreading this to them even though I separated the sick rabbit and was fanatical about hand washing, changing my clothes, ect. This bacteria has been know to spread to humans, although very rare, through a scratch or open wound. I have a compromised immune system due to a liver disease and was concerned for my health as well.

Every rabbit owner needs to do their own research. Decide which sources to trust, and make their own decision. If I had only one pet rabbit I would have definitely made a different decision, but that was not the case.

Do your research, ask people you trust. I noticed that someone mentioned penicillin. Penicillin can be toxic to rabbits. Check with your vet.

Hannah
 
Tinkerbell Rabbitry wrote:
Do your research, ask people you trust. I noticed that someone mentioned penicillin. Penicillin is toxic to rabbits. Check with your vet.

Hannah
Click to expand...
Penicillin is toxic when taken orally. However - many many rabbits on this forum have had Pen G shots given - and found it quite helpful.

I know - I've used it (after doing my research).


 
TinysMom wrote:
Tinkerbell Rabbitry wrote:
Do your research, ask people you trust. I noticed that someone mentioned penicillin. Penicillin is toxic to rabbits. Check with your vet.

Hannah
Click to expand...
Penicillin is toxic when taken orally. However - many many rabbits on this forum have had Pen G shots given - and found it quite helpful.

I know - I've used it (after doing my research).
Click to expand...

Many owners of rabbits on this forum have been SAVED by the use of of injectable penicillin (bicillin) and sometimes the combo of this easy to get drug with chloramphenical or zithromax.

I am using injectable bicillin on one of my rabbits at this very moment.

Randy has brought up another newly researched drug named Convenia which requires only 1 injection.
 
I don't have a lot of time to post a long explanation....but I will later. But a few thoughts. First, pasteurella is very treatable. I have no problem here treating it. It causes problems when it is not treated properly. Much of the information found in many articles are from years ago....and there have been great strides in treating infections in rabbits in recent years. I have read articles written as recently as 4-5 years ago thatare almost to the point of being barbaric. Abscesses? They do contain pasteurella...but it's a tag along. It takes the opportunity to infect. Thecore infectionof an abscess is usually one or more strains of anaerobic bacteria...much different than pasteurella. Skin abscesses? Most of the time skin abscesses are caused by staph. Got a cat? A walking mass of bacteria....mostly pasteurella. Got a bird? They carry it too. Are you breathing? Then you have pasteurella. There is no debate in any medical community on ifpasteurella is carried. All mammals and many birds carry this pathogen sub-clinically and most often in the respiratory system....that means it is there but the immune system keeps it under control. Do you go in a public restroom maybe at a Wal-Mart or McDonalds? Much morelikely to catch something there that is much nastier than pasteurella. But if something compromises the immune system, the geniecan comeout of the bottle. That is why they call it an "opportunistic bacteria". Stress, injury, bad living conditions, other infections....anything that stresses the immune system can allow pasteurella to show itself.

I have access to technical information that very few outside the veterinary world has access to. I routinely see the old and outdated information still out there. Things like antibiotic laced beads to treat abscesses (I developed a drug therapy here that is very successful....without surgery), using yogurt to "replace bacteria" in the digestive system....old school and in error. Many vet references and papers still say you can't use penicillin in rabbits.....I need to tell that tomany that were healed here that penicillin won't work....I have used amoxicillin in rabbits. I use Convenia in rabbits...ask a vet about that one. But things are changing as vet schools are now starting to train students in exotics. How do I know? My real world rabbits with real world problems have been and are still beingused to expose students to these issues. No more "rabbits are treated just like a cat" as we have heard from many vets. Totally wrong. I will also be using some of my non-releasable wildlife to train future vets on those species....and they are a totally different and more difficult world than domestic rabbits.

My thing here is not to make a personal attack....it's a general attack against old and inaccurate information. When peoplethat are in a panic due to a sick animal read inaccurate information from whatever source, that can lead them to make decisions that limit effective treatments. Inaccurate information has also put me indifficult situations....and that has happened recently when a vet treated based on inaccurate info found on the internet.I am in a constant battle with fellow rehabbers that treat based on what "has always been".In many cases, what has "always been" is just plain wrong. And manynotions of infections like pasteurella are just that...plain wrong. Pasteurella, like many other issues,is managable if properly diagnosed and treated.

Randy
 
This is great information, Thank You for taking the time to educate me and others. Just a quickupdate on the buck, he is doing somewhat better, still has a runny nose though. The breeder wants him back and will be getting him tomorrow. :(She stated that she wanted to take him to her own vet to have cultures done as she had no idea that he was sick when she sold him to me. I hope that happens and he gets treatment. Thanks again for the replies and info!
 
Aw, that's sad that she's taking him back. At least she's concerned and she's going to have a culture done. Maybe the stress of the move caused the infection to pop up. That's not unusual.

Is she going to keep you updated? Can you get him back?

Hannah- injected penicillin is a safe and sometimes necessary medication for rabbits. If you breed, you should be familiar with syphilis. The only treatment protocol I'm aware of for that is injected penicillin, which I had to do this summer with two litters (one weaned, one nursing) and their mother that I was fostering for the local shelter. No bad effects not even for the nursing babies and they're all healthy now. Injected penicillin can be useful for many other infections as well although it's not always the perfect choice. That's why culture and sensitivity tests are useful.
 
I have used injectable pennicillin on several of my rabbits as well, and yes my vet told me it was bad for them. Although someone evidently forgot to tell the rabbits that, as they are all alive and well now! LOL.
 
I think fluffy wuffies had injection penicillian for his inner ear afect combined with his head tilt. Head tilt costed us a lot of money to cure, but we are by no means breeders or for show. Even after all the work and the $$$$$ it costed us to get him all better, my sister and I both agree, when u love a bun, money is often not considered. We had a $500 Emergency bill + stay in the hospital and then medication ontop of that for 6 or so months. We were just happy to have fluffies back. I'm sure a breeder would put down a bun with headtilt, but IMO there are many people like my sister and I who are willing to love their bun no matter what, we see it through to the end.

I treat my bun almost like a human being, u wouldn't put someone down to like breast cancer, it's treatable, but not cureable, just like many other things, but head tilt is very common is what we were told, so we were relieved. He's now very funny and we tilt our heads to say "Hi" to him often during the day as he tilts his head up and smiles up at us.

Buns are so much fun to love!!!
 
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