Several rabbits off their feed

[pamnock]

BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:

Ok here is the e-mail

Dated Monday, March 31st, 2008

Urgent message to all members that feed Pfaus brand rabbit food!! There is a very bad lot of Pfaus rabbit food that is being sold under the lot numbers 081102(there is a possibility it may not have the 0 in front of the 8 so look closely they are both bad lots of food). DO NOT FEED TO YOUR RABBITS, TAKE IT BACK TO THE FEED STORE YOU PURCHASED IT FROM AND LET THEM KNOW THE PROBLEM ( most already do know but make sure) and when you get a new bag check the lot numbers (some stores are still selling the bad lot even though they know it is bad). THERE HAVE BEEN MANY RABBIT DEATHS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS LOT # IT IS SERIOUS... PLEASE PASS ON TO OTHERS YOU MAY KNOW THAT FEED THIS BRAND SO THAT NO ONE HAS TO EXPERIENCE A LOSS..The mill knows of this problem but will not address it.

So, Peg, do you feed Pfaus? I guess this is a *warning* to all who feed Pfaus, cuz it says the problem is associated with the mill, so yeah. :?

Hope this helps someone, anyone!


Emily

What exactly is the problem with the feed? What are the necropsy results on the rabbits?

Pam

 

[TinysMom]

tonyshuman wrote:

I would contact the nearest vet or agriculture school to get the food tested. And although it may seem like it's hard to get dandy greens, most natural food stores have them, and stores like Whole Foods are everywhere these days. I'm not the best person to ask, just chiming in.

Thanks - I have no idea what Whole Foods is - I live in a small Texas "border town" and the nearest place that I know of to find whole food type places is San Antonio - about 150 miles away...

Also - to Blue Sky - thanks for the warning but I've never heard of that brand of food.....

As for the four in my office - Saphira has eaten some hay but looks a bit uncomfortable too.....Isenstar has eaten lots of hay and looks a bit more comfortable.

Miss Bea still acts like she doesn't feel the best....and Zeus - bless his heart - must be feeling pretty darn good 'cause he's laying on his tummy with his legs stretched out behind him and in front of him.....

I'll probably update everyone later tonight or tomorrow.....

Peg

 

[ra7751]

I had held off posting this article...but this might be the time for some interesting reading. I think that many of you will remember my concerns about mycotoxins coming into play this spring due to the really poor baling conditions last growing season. We have found quite a bit of mold in our hay this year. Tossed quite a bit....tossed some pellets too. We have had a small run of some issues that appear to be toxin related. We see this every year about this time....and it usually runs thru May. We just know when to watch for it, what to look for (or smell for sometimes) and how to react aggressively and decisively.

I have discussed my concerns from a couple of years ago with the author of this article. She is a doctor and a licensed wildlife rehabber here in NC. I received much more detail than is in this article. I was nothing short of amazed and shocked at the brand names and the amounts of toxins found. While she doesn't mention specific brands in her article...I think there are some hints that some of you may pick up on.

The thing that really stands out for me is when multiple rabbits get sick with similar symptoms all at once. It would be a very rare bacteria that could infect multiple animals at the same time. Not many viruses can cause these type problems in rabbits....and again, if they did, it would be very unlikely the timing would be so close to each other. We had this happen for three years in a row....and lost rabbits and spent a lot of money the first two. But by tracking these events, we could put a time line on things. At the time, we were using a very popular brand of hay and also pellets. While I fully realize that toxins can form in anynaturally produced foods, I no longer use this suppliers products. Not because of the problem since that can and does happen to all brands of food....but I was just plain disgusted by their response.

Mycotoxins are basically food poisoning. I don't think I need to mention all the food borne illnesses that are in the news with humans.....and the major dog food recall from last year (that originated from a mill in NC). When I have multiple issues like the ones mentioned in this thread....I am looking for the common denomiator....and that is the food and/or water in most cases.

I urge everyone to take a good look at this article and take it seriously.

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/myco.html

This condition is many times misdiagnosed by vets....and that is assuming the rabbits survive long enough to get to a vet. It is many times misdiagnosed as stasis, wool block or whatever it is known as. If an x-ray is performed (and it should be)....there will be no impaction (blockage). The GI tract will most likely be almost totally empty with large pockets of gas caused by decaying bacteria. This is the "marker" for a toxicity issue. Treating this is difficult once the event is evolving.

I look forward to comments on this article.

Randy

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

pamnock wrote:

BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:

Ok here is the e-mail

Dated Monday, March 31st, 2008

Urgent message to all members that feed Pfaus brand rabbit food!! There is a very bad lot of Pfaus rabbit food that is being sold under the lot numbers 081102(there is a possibility it may not have the 0 in front of the 8 so look closely they are both bad lots of food). DO NOT FEED TO YOUR RABBITS, TAKE IT BACK TO THE FEED STORE YOU PURCHASED IT FROM AND LET THEM KNOW THE PROBLEM ( most already do know but make sure) and when you get a new bag check the lot numbers (some stores are still selling the bad lot even though they know it is bad). THERE HAVE BEEN MANY RABBIT DEATHS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS LOT # IT IS SERIOUS... PLEASE PASS ON TO OTHERS YOU MAY KNOW THAT FEED THIS BRAND SO THAT NO ONE HAS TO EXPERIENCE A LOSS..The mill knows of this problem but will not address it.

So, Peg, do you feed Pfaus? I guess this is a *warning* to all who feed Pfaus, cuz it says the problem is associated with the mill, so yeah. :?

Hope this helps someone, anyone!


Emily

What exactly is the problem with the feed? What are the necropsy results on the rabbits?

Pam

I don't know exactly what is wrong with the feed, nor the results of the rabbits - I'm not sure if any had necropsies, but I will check on it tomorrow

Emily

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Hey Randy. You and I think alike a lot sometimes!

My mom's dogs are sick. They all have a stomach "bacteria" is what the vet said. I think maybe with all the bad weather - we could be seeing mycotoxin in feeds. You know Purina is in St. Louis where a lot of areas are flooded. Water will cause molds.

ALSO, I think Peg caught that they were "off the feed" quick enough to stop some of the illness. (sure hope so!) Cassanova was older, maybe his immune system just couldn't take it like the stronger, bigger Zeus. My mom's oldest dog, who has had other health issues is worse than the other two. We thought she was dying the other day cause she was so sick and had minor seizure like symptoms (tremors). When I got to looking to see if it might be her feed (I suspected that thing that happens to feed that Randy talks about sometimes! lol) and found it... I looked into dog symptoms..... Seizures is a main one. One article describes it as like strychnine poisoning.




[/quote]

 

[TinysMom]

I think what clued me in was when Saphira started not only trying to throw her feed at me - but literally dumping her food bowl upside down onto my desk (she is beside me).

This is a rabbit that practically LICKS her bowl clean and then wants to know why she doesn't have more.

She didn't eat all her food the day before (which I'd noticed) - but then she started dumping the old food and the new food out of her cage.

I know - Saphira is ornery - but THAT ornery?

Peg

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Exactly Peg. If we watch and "listen" I believe they tell us.

I fed that bad hay and Clover looked at me like I was a crazy woman. I thought she'd just grown accustomed to the barn hay (which we just used for a few days til I could get out and get hay at the petstore - now they are loving it!) but she didn't eat her hay..... that's not clover. She LOVES her hay. She peed on that hay LOL!

 

[Bo B Bunny]

This is VERY interesting, Emily! Thanks for posting it. Anytime you hear of something like this, please post it or at least send it to admin so we can see if there is anymore info. It's worth checking out.

BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:

pamnock wrote:

BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:

Ok here is the e-mail

Dated Monday, March 31st, 2008

Urgent message to all members that feed Pfaus brand rabbit food!! There is a very bad lot of Pfaus rabbit food that is being sold under the lot numbers 081102(there is a possibility it may not have the 0 in front of the 8 so look closely they are both bad lots of food). DO NOT FEED TO YOUR RABBITS, TAKE IT BACK TO THE FEED STORE YOU PURCHASED IT FROM AND LET THEM KNOW THE PROBLEM ( most already do know but make sure) and when you get a new bag check the lot numbers (some stores are still selling the bad lot even though they know it is bad). THERE HAVE BEEN MANY RABBIT DEATHS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS LOT # IT IS SERIOUS... PLEASE PASS ON TO OTHERS YOU MAY KNOW THAT FEED THIS BRAND SO THAT NO ONE HAS TO EXPERIENCE A LOSS..The mill knows of this problem but will not address it.

So, Peg, do you feed Pfaus? I guess this is a *warning* to all who feed Pfaus, cuz it says the problem is associated with the mill, so yeah. :?

Hope this helps someone, anyone!


Emily

What exactly is the problem with the feed? What are the necropsy results on the rabbits?

Pam

I don't know exactly what is wrong with the feed, nor the results of the rabbits - I'm not sure if any had necropsies, but I will check on it tomorrow

Emily

 

[Flashy]

How are they today Peg?

Just another spin to put on it, and it's most likely not appropriate here, but it might be worth mentioning it. I don't know what your mental state is at the moment, but I find that the lower and worse I feel, the stranger the rabbits behave because they sense it. Is it possible that this is your more sensitive (or more bonded to you?) rabbits sensing that you are feeling down and bad and maybe reacting to that?

Just a wildcard thought to add to the mix

 

[TinysMom]

Flashy wrote:

How are they today Peg?

Just another spin to put on it, and it's most likely not appropriate here, but it might be worth mentioning it. I don't know what your mental state is at the moment, but I find that the lower and worse I feel, the stranger the rabbits behave because they sense it. Is it possible that this is your more sensitive (or more bonded to you?) rabbits sensing that you are feeling down and bad and maybe reacting to that?

Just a wildcard thought to add to the mix

You know what - if it was just the four in my office - I'd say that you have a good point....

But in the living room - Triad and Cocoa were affected....sweet rabbits - but not love bugs.

In the rabbitry - my greatest concern is Billy Sunny. Art is VERY VERY attached to him....almost as much as he was to Puck. I have two others that are affected also...but Billy barely touched stuff tonight although he did graze on a bit of hay.

In my bedroom - Hepburn is affected - yet Radagast and Harley (who I'm more attached to) - aren't.

Robin feeds the garage and I forget which rabbits are affected out there - but my favorites aren't....yet a few others are...

So I can't really track it to how close they are to me.

I can't say it is the water - as the trio gets bottled water.

Of the trio - Zeus and Miss Bea are affected the most...Ambrosia is as healthy as can be....although I did catch her stealing cheese crackers from a box I thought was empty......

Zeus has started eating some again and has given me poops. Miss Bea has eaten some but still isn't herself. Isenstar - who is under Saphira - is eating again and pooping good. Saphira....is eating a tiny bit but not doing overly well. I am concerned about her.

And Audrey went off her food and didn't eat all of it...(in my office)....but she's not close to my desk and I don't interact with her as much.

Oh and George and Gracie? Healthy as can be...sorta...not eating quite as much as usual.

Anyway - here is a picture of Isentar standing near the entrance to her cage (or in the entrance maybe 'cause she's not standing as tall)....trying to get Saphira's hay...

I'll update everyone later....I'm still in a "watch and wait and keep a close eye on them" stage..

 

[Flashy]

Yeh, I can see how that doesn't correlate, so my only other thought would be the sensitve rabbits because some can pick up on things more than others, some know they can offer comfort and seem to get affected less than others (that's what I have found).

The only reason I have mentioned that is because you said it wasa possibility for some rabbits.

I'm sorry things are bad, I do hope you know that my PM box is open if you do ever want a chat. I am not sure you would ever take me up on that, but the offer is there.

 

[TinysMom]

Flashy - you really do have a good point and it had merit. I think it was Carolyn's Tucker that is so close to her and so sensitive to her moods - that he can get ill if she gets ill.

The other thing that hit me is .... they aren't all the same breed either.

Billy Sunny - lionlop

Zeus - flemish

Jenny - I forget...

and of course - lionheads...

Anyway - today will involve lots of cage cleaning - I'm also gonna run bowls and dishes through the dishwasher again on a hot water cycle w/ no soap...and try to do everything I can to take care of the things I can think of....

 

[MsBinky]

Ok, you most likely already did this but, have you checked for a date onthe bag if it came in bags? Maybe it's just not fresh? Are they just not eating or acting lethargic as well? Thing is, lets say they don't like something about the food then that could explain the small poops etc. if they aren't eating. It doesn't mean that the food is making them sick, rather the fact that they won't eat is doing it. I guess to be sure I would just remove the pellets and keep them on hay for a few days like you did.

I guess what I am trying to say is, I guess if they were feeling ill, they wouldn't want to eat much at all. Since they are eating their hay, some of them quite enthusiastically, it's most likely something about the food thought it doesn't seem that they are actually sick from it.Maybe it was processed differently, is dustier, not as fresh, drier, etc. ?

 

[naturestee]

Peg, I'm having issues now too. Three of my four are off their food, some more than others. I'm thinking it's viral though because the only new stuff is a new bale of hay from the same farmer I always buy from. It still smells and looks great to me and I know he stores it well. I've had a suspected viral problem here before, where again three of the four buns got sick one after the other then snapped out of it within 12 hours. This is going longer though.

 

[slavetoabunny]

Can anyone tell me if American Pet Diner timothy pellets are one of the foods making anyone's buns sick? Sparky and Scooter are fine with the bag they have now, but I have a new bag being delivered on Monday.

 

[mouse_chalk]

Peg, I don't have much advice beyond what you've been given already, just wanted to say that I hope this clears up soon, it must be really worrying for you.

I should scroll back up and check, but is it possible it could be the hay at all? I can't remember if you've mentioned that yet or not, sorry if you have!

Sending lots of hope and crossed fingers your way...

Jen xx

 

[naturestee]

Nope, I feed Oxbow, and while I don't know what brand Peg feeds I know she uses an alfalfa pellet because of the babies and moms, etc.

slavetoabunny wrote:

Can anyone tell me if American Pet Diner timothy pellets are one of the foods making anyone's buns sick? Sparky and Scooter are fine with the bag they have now, but I have a new bag being delivered on Monday.

 

[pamnock]

I saw this post on Showbunny today:

In light of some of the recent posts on Showbunny re. Pfau's Feed, I feel it
necessary to add my two cents' worth.First of all, my credentials to expound on
the subject: we live 19 miles from Pfau's Pellet Mill here in western Montana.
My family and I have fed Pfau's rabbit pellets to rabbits (mostly French lops -
but also a few smaller breeds) in our 100-hole rabbitry for nearly 30 years.
During that 30-year period, he have NOT ONCE had even a suspicion of any
inconsistencies in this fine feed.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

You're very welcome, BBB. Anything to prevent sickness!

:biggrin2:

Emily

 

[TinysMom]

slavetoabunny wrote:

Can anyone tell me if American Pet Diner timothy pellets are one of the foods making anyone's buns sick? Sparky and Scooter are fine with the bag they have now, but I have a new bag being delivered on Monday.

My rabbit food is a Texas brand and is milled here in Texas. Basically - my feed store gets his load in - bags it himself (I don't know how they do all that) and sells it. I went in today and bought a new bag - it was from his fresh shipment that came in two days after my last batch...I'm trying it tonight and going to look at what is left in the food bowls in the morning.

So far - Zeus - is eating - not normal - but better than he was.

Isenstar - is quite happy with her new food and her hay and is eating.

Saphira - looked at her food - looked at me and thumped. When I had my back turned - she nibbled on it ...and she has nibbled on a bit - and had a bit of hay - but not nearly enough

Miss Bea - is really really grumpy. eating some - not much. Really just not herself until about 10 minutes ago when she laid down beside Zeus.

Cocoa ate a bit.....not much. Turns out Triad didn't eat about half his supper last night - when I dumped out his food bowl and put his new food in - he did eat some.

I guess my biggest concern right now is Billy Sunny. I watched him for five minutes after I fed him and he did go to his food finally and eat a bit. I'm gonna give him some of the fresh hay I bought today and see if it helps.

By the way - I want to say something. I lost my rabbits on Purina. I know another who have lost one on Oxbow (and yes - the food was tested).

NO ONE BRAND is at fault....and no one brand is totally immune.

Something can happen to any bag of food at any time.....

I guess what I'm trying to say is this - if your rabbits go off therir food - particularly if you have more than one and more than one rabbit does it....really check what you're feeding them / what they're drinking/ etc.

I know that Pam says its viral. I know other say other things. Right now - no matter what it is and what label I give it - the fact is - it is something I have to watch until they're all back on their feed.

Peg