Seperating a bonded pair, and rehoming one

[Ponyta]

Things have been getting better with Jack, Lily and I, but NOT Jack and Lily as a pair.

They were bonded a while back, with difficulty, by their last family. Lily is and was aggressive because of her hormones. She's not spayed, and wont be getting spayed anytime soon. She goes in and out of periods where she's exceptionally nice and well behaved, and then the switch will snap and she gets mean and destructive. I'm not saying she's mean or vicious, obviously it's the PMS.

Especially towards Jack. Even when she's nice she still pulls his hair out, and attacks him. He looks like he's molting, but he's not. When he's out, and they aren't interacting, he is so much more curious and relaxed, but when she's around he's tense. I'm afraid of people seeing him, because he looks rough and like I don't take care of him. Between his patchy coat and his long nails (much shorter then when I got him), he looks neglected. I'm certain that if I don't end it, their bond will break naturally because he's starting to fight back. It's going to get vicious.

I would like to keep him. He's a very calm, relaxed rabbit. He's got a nipping problem, and when he gets exceptionally mad he snuggles into the krook of your arm (thus making you not mad anymore and go "D'aw!") and then he bites you a couple times to let you know he was upset, and then you're subjected to an hour of petting. XD

I was just cleaning out their destroyed cage, and she attacked me and then she attacked him. She was spitting mad, hissing, lunging, boxing and biting my legs, feet and arms. It got so bad I had to put her in the wire cage and seperate them. I know it's the hormones, and she was probably territorial and miffed about me rearranging her mess, but girls gotta go.

I guess my question is can I separate her and Jack? I don't want him to be miserable, but without her he can have a lot more outside time and a lot more attention from me. He's alone in his cage atm doing binkies...

They should NEVER have been bonded without her being spayed first. I don't think I would have done it myself.


I would like to rehome her. Either give her back to her old family or network to find her a new one. I would hate to rehome Jack as well. It makes me feel selfish though.

Note: This is a personality conflict, as well as me acknowledging I don't have the immediate funds to have her spayed. I don't need flack for my decision and I'm not going to apologize for it. You don't have to agree with it, but you don't have to mother me either. I love my rabbits, I want the best for them, but I'm also not willing to be attacked every other day. Thank you for any advice you have, I truly would appreciate it.

 

[Ponyta]

Also, Jacks "cold" has completely cleared up. No more runny nose or wheezing and his appetite (when Lily isn't around) has increased. I'll still keep an eye on him, but he's much much better. So thanks to the people who helped me out even though I was flipping my biscuits.

 

[BaileysMom]

Allie, I don't have any advise for you than what you already know the spaying would help w/ the attitude, I am actually running into the same problem w/ my dutch pair, they aren't aggressive but the male is constantly chasing and pee'ing on the female, I had to put them in seperate cages because the female would get mad and grunt and constantly have to run from him and then she would be pee'ing while she was running away from him, so I seperated them in different cages but would still let them out during exercise time together so they could keep the bond, but the other day when they were out she hopped on my lap on the couch and I started petting her, she had pee all down her back from him pee'ing on her. To top it off they are both spayed/neutered so here lately I have been considering re-homing the male, it sounds like he really needs a one rabbit home.

 

[Ponyta]

Angela, I'm sorry you're having problems, too. Thankfully mine don't pee on each other. I'm very glad Lily doesn't spray.

Jack is in his own pen right now, and seems to be enjoying his new man cave. He's an impeccably clean rabbit, where as Lily- not so much. I think he's going to do great on his own.

I would like to list Lily here. I don't feel comfortable dropping her off at a rescue (they take months to adopt out, and I know of a few who've been there for a year or two) or listing her on Craigslist.

 

[MiniLopHop]

Allie, is seperate housing yet keeping them both an option? I just had to pull one of my bunns out of the trio because the other female wouldn't let her eat. She's much happier on her own and I think all are less stressed. All three were spayed/neutered.

Sometimes we have the best intentions and it just doesn't work out. Perhaps two cages but in the same room so they can see eachother but he will not be subject to her hostility?

 

[tamsin]

She obviously needs spaying, as you know. I'm not sure you're going to find someone that wants to rehome her with the behaviour problems she has. It's difficult enough finding homes for rabbits that are 100% cute and healthy. Why take a risk on a rabbit with a behaviour issue.

Although their bond might seem rocky, rabbit social structure is different to ours. I haven't seen your buns interact but unless they are staying as far from each other as possible and/or having running fights. Your male will be deriving some benefit from her company and is likely to experience stress from the separation. Are you planning to replace her with a spayed rabbit?

My advice would be to plan on spaying in the long-medium term, check with local rescues/vets see if you can get vouchers and what sort of price your looking at (it will vary a lot) and then put money aside each month to save for it. In the interim there are lots of things you can do to make your and his relationship better.

Hair pulling isn't aggression unless it's done as part of a bite. It's often more closely related to grooming - just taken to the extreme. You can lesson this by feeding more hay (you can't chew hay and fur at the same time) and providing more toys with an emphasis on chewing.

Cleaning out the cage of a territorial doe whilst she's there is about the equivalent of making someone stand in the corner and watch whilst your shred the contents of their home. Put her in a carry case, with something yummy to distract her, whilst you do the clear out.

Attacking you and then him, is redirected aggression. She's mad at you but she can't get you then she takes it out on him. Even 100% loved up bonded rabbits do this - it's common if you put two pairs next to each other and they can't get at each other becase of the bars so they take it out on their companions. It's not a sign of their bond being no good, it's her not having an outlet for how she feels.

More exercise is also helpful, you mention the 'destroyed' cage. It maybe she is has a generally more active personality than him and requires more exercise and stimulation. A rabbit that is bored, gets stressed and takes it out on their cage and may take it out on their social companions (human and rabbit). Get her brain stimulated, wear her out a bit and you may have a much more relaxed rabbit.

I do think her hormones are contributing to the problem, but I also think it's important not to blame everything on them

 

[Ponyta]

Once again, she wont be getting spayed in the near future. We are moving, there are no funds. Just getting there is going to cost me half my budget, if I have anything left over to eat with until payday I'll be lucky. No spay, it's not going to happen.

It doesn't make sense to me to separate them, and the get another rabbit to replace her with immediately. Maybe way off in the future, but for now I think it wouldn't be tasteful to do that.

It's either she goes, or they both go, and it took their last family three months to adopt them out to me, one of the families returned them after a week. I highly disagree that she would be hard to place with an experienced person. Either way it turns out, I'm not keeping a rabbit who's directing ANY anger at me.

Since I live in a tiny apartment, and she eats everything and can only be out 45 minutes at a time, there is no chance for more exercise. They get plenty of hay and play with their toys, and dig box.

And I don't see anywhere where I blamed everything on her.

---

Pertaining to the other post, no I wont be keeping her. She's in a cage that is diagonal from Jacks, so they can still hear, see and smell each other.

 

[Eli]

Hi Ponyta,

Pehaps, considering your quite stressful situation and that even yourself may not be able to eat, you should give them both up to a local agency that specializes in adopting out bonded pairs. Some places find volunteers to keep them until they are adopted out together.

House Rabbit Society is a great place to contact. Perhaps they can take them after hearing your story:

Iowa

Linda Cook
Davenport, IA
[email protected]
536-326-3430

Also try Googling "adopt bonded rabbits, iowa" and you may find a trustworthy place to take your rabbits.

Good luck and I wish you all the best and brightest futures.

 

[Ponyta]

Eli, I have enough pellet and hay to get them through until payday in JUNE. I would most certainly consider that if I weren't transferring jobs, but since I am that's completely unnecessary. Thanks for the suggestion though, but I'm not sending my rabbits to a rescue. I didn't say I couldn't afford them, I said it would be rough for a couple of weeks.

 

[Ponyta]

Anyway, this topic is done. I've made my decision.

 

[TinysMom]

Ponyta wrote:

Either way it turns out, I'm not keeping a rabbit who's directing ANY anger at me.

Allie - life with rabbits is tough enough when they LOVE you....but when they dislike you or are angry at you - it gets so much rougher.

I've been in your shoes - and I wound up rehoming the rabbit with someone else - someone that it was obvious that the rabbit loved (and she got spoiled totally rotten too).

I would suggest you advertise her here first - in our rescue me section. I'll even put in a post supporting your decision in the thread so you won't get flack from other members.

I understand your position and that you're trying to do what you feel is best.

As members we'd often love things to turn out to be sunshine and roses and all wonderful and have our rabbit situations turn out so we'd keep our rabbits. But sometimes...to do the best thing - we have to let them go and have a better start at a new place.

It sounds to me like those two aren't really "bonded" in their eyes.

 

[Kipcha]

I agree with TinysMom, living with a rabbit that is aggressive towards you shouldn't be necessary. It's obvious that you have tried to work with this bunny and it just isn't working out, making it an upsetting situation for both yourself and her. It's not really fair to all three of you.

I would also have to agree that they don't really sound "bonded". We had three "bonded" rabbits surrendered to us a few months ago and all three were rehomed in seperate homes, with one of them staying with us. All three have adjusted very well and don't even seem to miss each other, they almost seem happier being apart, I know Buttercup is, not having to scarf her food down anymore to get some or having to go somewhere seperate for veggie time cause she would get bullied out of having any. Sure, they seemed to get along and I was warned numerous times about seperating them, but their bond wasn't nearly as strong as people seemed to think it was and their relationship sounded similar to the one your bunnies share.

I would recommend just advertising on her, maybe on kijiji but put in the ad that you are going to be picky with finding homes, make sure that the people she goes to know their stuff.

It's easy for people to sit on the other side of the screen and judge your situation, so just keep your chin up and know you are doing the best thing for you and your rabbits.

 

[Ponyta]

Thank you all for your posts, I really appreciate it.

I posted an ad on CL, even though I feel uncomfortable doing so. However, there may be someone out there who doesn't have a bull donkey idea of breeding her or giving her to their children as the perfect Easter present. And I will NOT adopt her out until well after Easter is over. People lie, I wont tolerate it.

I said that I will be picky, that they must already have rabbits and be experienced, and that they are required to stay in contact with both me and their previous owners. Lily IS someones baby, and I keep in constant contact with her. She had her since she was 5 weeks old. Not 8, 5. She's not a throw away pet.

She does come with a pretty large, though not fancy, four level cage. So that's a plus. I'll probably send her out with 10lbs of hay, pellets to transition her with, her litter box and her toys. So I'll write the post up tonight, along with a pet finder and that kijiji one as well.

I put her back in Jacks pen this morning, cause he was bouncing around and I thought he wanted her back, but as soon as I put her in he flipped his biscuits. She attacked him and ran him all over the cage.

I don't even know.

 

[Ponyta]

As for Jack, he's on his sixth or seventh home, and that's an ideal number. He was a shelter rabbit, and he kept getting returned for not being a child friendly bun. I would peg him as a great starter rabbit, so I don't know what they were talking about. Then they went to Mary, then Mary rehomed them to a woman who had five kids who terrorized him, and then went back to her, and then to me. He's got two inch long rips in both of his ears. He's not going anywhere.

He can live out a happy life with a full butt of hair with me.

 

[Eli]

Hi Ponyta,

I thought I read you were considering rehoming the female, Lily.

I would like to rehome her. Either give her back to her old family or network to find her a new one.

I would like to list Lily here. I don't feel comfortable dropping her off at a rescue (they take months to adopt out, and I know of a few who've been there for a year or two) or listing her on Craigslist.

Well if you do consider only rehoming Lily and her being spayed is the only reason Jack is not in a better condition, that would be quite a shame to separate them. That is all I meant about it.

 

[Ponyta]

Eli,

I am only considering rehoming her. Yeah, it would be a shame. Ideally they could stay together and be happy, but that's not the case. They shouldn't have been bonded in the first place, and clearly it's taking its toll on Jack. It doesn't matter if it's just the spay, or her personality, or because the sky is blue, he's not happy, she's not happy, and I'm not happy.

Ideally she'll go to a multi rabbit home, she'll be spayed, and she'll be bonded with another male with a personality that fits.

We're going to adjust our lives and hope for the best.

 

[Eli]

Is that Jack's bum in the photograph? Quite a cutie. :hugsquish:

I also just thought of something that might help you in the future if you ever plan on re-bonding Jack with a more suitable mate. It may help you to avoid your current dilemma in the future.

I was lucky when I found Eli for Bubbles. Bubbles is a very socialized and carefree bun. She is extremely friendly with people and playful. When we brought her into the shelter, Eli was quiet and reserved. I had seen a video of him on the shelter website and saw he was a more quiet bunny and figured "he seems like he would be patient with Bubbles." He was described during play-time as "interested mainly in chomping on hay" and "mellow." They were placed in an x-pen for over an hour together. Bubbles was stressed because it was the first time she had ever met another rabbit - plus she was in a strange place with a lot of noises from all different sorts of animals. Eli wanted nothing to do with us humans. However, he was totally smitten with Bubbles from day 1. He went over to her and stood still when she would stomp at him. He was persistent but patient and would stick his nose out and stayed still, letting her know he wasn't a threat. Eventually, he got close enough to lick her ear. I think he was trying to soothe her because the whole time, not once did he try to mount her.

When we brought him home, it took about 3 days of separation for them to get acquainted with each other's smells and sounds before we integrated their enclosures. She even attacked him when he got in her space, initially. But on the 3rd day, he was licking her and she was doing belly flops for attention from him. They bonded extremely fast.

The volunteers stated that bunnies with opposite personalities seem to bond the easiest. I have also read this online from various sources. So depending on Jack's personality, his mate should have quite a polar one.

 

[Myia09]

Hmmm..I understand your frustration, but I think most people who posted here were trying to say maybe house them seperate until you CAN spay her...in the future, even if that is awhile. Hopefully she will find a good home with her issues. Do you think there is any chance of waiting to rehome her until after Easter? I would be concerened about that as well.

But I had an aggressive rabbit I rehomed too, so I know how difficult it can be. I know my trust was completley lost in him, and I actually feared him.

 

[Eli]

Wow. what did your bunny do to make you fear him, Myia? :O

 

[Kipcha]

Eli wrote:

Wow. what did your bunny do to make you fear him, Myia? :O

I can't speak for Myia, but an aggressive rabbit can be pretty scary.

The only rabbit we ever let go (We returned him to the breeder when we had had enough) was a mini rex that was like a rabid dog. He would literally lunge at the side of the cage trying to bite anyone who walked by, he would bite and not let go and honestly, we were all too terrified to even take him out anymore since whenever he was out on the floor, he would chase you and try to bite your ankle in a very aggressive manner. I would understand it if it was out of fear, but he would go out of his way to attack people. The vets thought maybe he had a brain tumor or something that made him more aggressive, even they said that what he was doing was not natural for a rabbit.

True, not all aggressive rabbits are like that (Kokomo, our dutch doe, was an "aggressive" case and she's one of the sweetest buns you will ever meet) but it really scares you when they get bad.