Recovering from stasis

[neri18]

I have a few questions. First I'll give some background. Pip is just getting over stasis. I had to take him to the emergency vet this weekend but he seems to be on the mend. They did a fecal smear and said he had no signs of bad bacteria but they gave me 2 different antibiotics (enrofloxacin and metronidazole). I haven't given them to him because I don't see the point if there's no sign of a bacterial infection and I don't want to load him up on meds. They gave him sub-q fluids and a shot of metoclopramide with some to give him orally until he was able to eat on his own. He started eating and drinking again about 2 hours after he got home. His poops are looking more normal but still soft and he's active and seems to be himself and feeling much better. He was even begging for his morning craisin so I know he was feeling better. Here are my questions.

1) He doesn't seem to be using his litter box as much. It looks like there are some urine stains under the bed and also next to his pellet dish. He has peed in his litterbox, but he seems to have trouble since I brought him home. Is this normal after stasis? His urine looks normal (the typical dark color but not bloody or anything), I just would rather him use his litterbox. I don't mind a few poos scattered around but I don't want pee everywhere. Will he get better about the litterbox as he keeps feeling better?

2) His butt is looking nasty from his loose stools and pee stains. I tried to use a warm wet washcloth but he won't stay still or let me wipe it long enough to make any difference. This isn't new, he's never liked being touched around his bottom or his feet. Trimming his nails is a hassle. I'd like to try and give him a bath but I doubt he'd stay still enough. Do you have any suggestions, without stressing him out too much and making any stasis symptoms come back, to clean up his butt?

I'm sorry for the long post but I'm still a little worried about him and I'm paranoid he'll stop eating and drinking again. He seems okay but until everything is normal I'll be nervous. I just want to help him get his litterbox habits back and try to clean him up a bit so he feels better down there. I'd appreciate any tips or advice.

 

[tonyshuman]

I agree not to give antibiotics if there aren't bacteria in his feces. The first thing on my list to do would be to give him some Bene-Bac. It's a probiotic that promotes the growth of beneficial bacteria in the GI tract, which can be really critical for getting over stasis. It's found at many big box pet stores in the dog/cat medicine section as a gel, or in the small animal section as a powder.

You can do a butt bath if you like, but I would worry about it stressing him out. It might be good to just trim off the dirty fur, if you can do that without getting his skin.

I don't know if it's normal not to poo in the box after stasis, but it worries me because it sounds more like he's not quite over if. I'd also stop using the metoclopramide.

It would be good to do a follow-up exam with your normal bunny-savvy vet, because this one seems to be not so good. Rabbits have very sensitive GI bacteria, and it's never recommended to give them antibiotics if there aren't bacteria present by culture.

It's a difficult situation, and stasis can take a few days to get over. How old is he? What is his diet? Make sure he's getting a lot of hay and water these days to help. Reduce or eliminate any sugary/carbohydrate-laden treats. Don't give extra pellets. Spike the water with a drop of vanilla or a small amount of fruit juice. If you feed veggies, soak them in water for 15-30 min before you give them to him (this adds water to the diet).

 

[neri18]

He's around 2.5 years old. He's had stasis before but it wasn't quite this bad. It happened the first time around his molt and he's been molting. I brush him as much as I can but it's hard to get all of it. I did give him some bene-bac but he hasn't let me give him any since before his vet visit. I think he's just had enough of things being stuck in his mouth and he's not too keen on getting too close to me. I can try again later but he puts up a big fight and I'm trying to keep him calm and relaxed. I know stasis can take awhile to get over so I'm just trying to let him be and see what happens. He drinks fine and not an excessive amount or anything, just a normal amount as would be typical for him. He eats plenty of hay and I only give him a shot glass worth of pellets so that he focuses more on the hay. He ate a good amount of cilantro earlier so his appetite seems fine. By all appearances he would seem like he's feeling much better, sprawled out and happy, just spending more time under the bed where he knows I can't catch him as easily. I only gave him one dose of the metoclopramide because he started eating again on his own. That dose was at 7pm on Sunday and he had the injection at around 11am that morning. His poops are still pretty soft but looking more like normal bit by bit. The part that worries me more was he always pees in the litterbox but he's had a few accidents. I don't know if it's from the medication or if it's something else. I know bunnies can get uti's but he doesn't seem to have any pain or discomfort. I feel really bad about his butt too because it looks so gross. I don't want to give him a bath because I know it would stress him. I sort of just want to give him a day and see how it goes because I don't want to cause more stress than necessary by being too paranoid or concerned and just making things worse. He seems like he's feeling okay, just trying to avoid me, which I can't really blame him for. It's just the pee accidents that have me wondering if there's even more wrong. Nothing has been out of the ordinary so I don't know what could have caused any of this aside from just his molt.

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

neri18 wrote:

I have a few questions. First I'll give some background. Pip is just getting over stasis. I had to take him to the emergency vet this weekend but he seems to be on the mend. They did a fecal smear and said he had no signs of bad bacteria but they gave me 2 different antibiotics (enrofloxacin and metronidazole). I haven't given them to him because I don't see the point if there's no sign of a bacterial infection and I don't want to load him up on meds. They gave him sub-q fluids and a shot of metoclopramide with some to give him orally until he was able to eat on his own. He started eating and drinking again about 2 hours after he got home. His poops are looking more normal but still soft and he's active and seems to be himself and feeling much better. He was even begging for his morning craisin so I know he was feeling better. Here are my questions.

1) He doesn't seem to be using his litter box as much. It looks like there are some urine stains under the bed and also next to his pellet dish. He has peed in his litterbox, but he seems to have trouble since I brought him home. Is this normal after stasis? His urine looks normal (the typical dark color but not bloody or anything), I just would rather him use his litterbox. I don't mind a few poos scattered around but I don't want pee everywhere. Will he get better about the litterbox as he keeps feeling better?

2) His butt is looking nasty from his loose stools and pee stains. I tried to use a warm wet washcloth but he won't stay still or let me wipe it long enough to make any difference. This isn't new, he's never liked being touched around his bottom or his feet. Trimming his nails is a hassle. I'd like to try and give him a bath but I doubt he'd stay still enough. Do you have any suggestions, without stressing him out too much and making any stasis symptoms come back, to clean up his butt?

I'm sorry for the long post but I'm still a little worried about him and I'm paranoid he'll stop eating and drinking again. He seems okay but until everything is normal I'll be nervous. I just want to help him get his litterbox habits back and try to clean him up a bit so he feels better down there. I'd appreciate any tips or advice.

--i would like to generate some thought on this subject//.like- what is the meaning of gi-stasis??-what blockage did the radiograghs show??-rabbit has a messy-wet- butt??-from what??--.a test shows no bad bacteria in the gi-tract//-gi-stasis does not cause a messy butt//-stasis is when- the gi tract stops due to blockage--or--no poops due to blockage//-i am not critisizing anyone yet,,but i believe we need to examine the evidence and what has taken placeh34r2//the rabbit is already stressed out///sorry if i sound a bit rough but in all sincereity,,.. the welfare of the bun is paramount//.i only know of two things that could cause the symtoms described one is coccidia,and excessive greens,,with a urinary tract infectionray:i do hope i am wrong,,so bring on the heat:nasty:--james waller

 

[ra7751]

Just a quick note.....I do not agree with using Enrofloxacin (Baytril) in GI events. Given orally, it can inhibit the repopulation of beneficial bacteria. I would use the Metronidazole (Flagyl). In a GI event, there is a harmful bacteria that can grow and it can be fatal if not contained.....Clostridium. Metronidazole is effective at controlling these bacteria. But there is an even more beneficial property to Metronidazole.....it is anti-inflammatory and will help soothe an upset GI. Metronidazole is a tried and true benefit in a GI event. I have no problems at all using Metronidazole in a stasis event...and I do use it.

One additional word about stasis follow-up. We are currently testing an equine product called Biosponge. The company that makes it was kind enough to send me the technical lab specs of this product. It was tested In Vitro and was effective at binding and filtering the toxins caused by the most common strain of Clostridium found in a foundering horse....and a foundering horse is almost identical to a rabbit in stasis/ileus. I am actually testing on wild cottontails but if it's effective with the cottontails, it will work with domestics. And if this proves effective, it will be a huge break thru in battling the toxins from Clostridium.

Randy

 

[tonyshuman]

I agree that stasis isn't the only thing going on. The best way to get his gut back in balance, though, is to get the right bacteria going and a lot of fiber in the diet. Bene-Bac and lots of hay will help. So will water. I think he may be peeing outside of his box because he's still in pain in the GI area, plus some bunnies that have bad stasis experiences become scared of the litterbox because they went through a lot of pain trying to poo there. For that reason they stay out of it sometimes after recovering.

 

[Maureen Las]

James brought up an a excellent point. Why is this bun being given a gut motility if he has diarrhea?. Did this rabbitdevelop diarrhea after getting the drug?


I have heard of metoclopromide being used (rarely) in diarrhea situations but you said that this bun had stasis meaning blocked up intestinal tract?

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/GI_stimulation/motility_diarrhea.htm

Most of us would not use a motility drug for either stasis or diarrhea but some vets will

When did this bun develop loose poops. this is very signifcant as he will become dehydrated

Was this rabbit being treated for stasis ;;; in other words he stopped poooping or was pooping small and/ or dried out stingy poops or is he being treated for loose poops?

 

[ra7751]

Umm.....had time to go back and read all the post. In my non-professional opinion based on decades of treating rabbits....any vet that gives a gut motility drug is not rabbit savvy. Just my personal opinion. I have never seen any benefit and only down side to motility drugs. All of my vets are truly exotic specialists (nice to live near a major vet school) and none of them will usemotility drugs in rabbits. After I reread the entire post....I would bet thistreatmentcame from the VIN as a "catch all". And again after reading the entire post, as others suspect....I think there is more going on here. My suggestions are to keep him hydrated, toss the metaclopramide and consider that a huge no-no and find a rabbt savvy vet. I would ask a rabbit savvy vet to perform a urinalysis and get some x-rays of the bladder. And I wouldn't rule out a CBC with EC titer. In other words, a full physical exam by a rabbit savvy vet. Stasis is always a symptom of something else. In this case....it almost sounds like something going on in the UT....and the above diagnostic tests should shed some light on the root cause of these issue.

Randy

 

[neri18]

I took him back to the vet and they suspect a UTI. He's been eating great and his poops are looking pretty normal as in not runny and forming balls. As for the rabbit savvy vets, I can only do the best I can with what is available to me. The people I took him to were recommended as familiar with rabbits. He wasn't eating, drinking, or pooping which is why I took him to the vet the first time and they said it was stasis. They couldn't hear any gut movement. I think everyone is going to have a different opinion so I'm just going to follow the vet's advice and take it one day at a time and see how it goes. He seems to be improving so unless he looks like he's feeling worse, I'm going to assume the vets actually know what they're talking about and follow their instructions. I do appreciate all the advice though and I'll give updates on how he's doing.

 

[tonyshuman]

That's good to hear. It would make sense that a UTI could cause a stasis event (the pain). Good luck with the treatment!

 

[Pipp]

I have to agree with James (and of course Randy). 'Stasis' has become a general term for any GI issue, and people tend to forget that a) stasis is a symptom, and b) there are many different GI issues that don't involve stasis at all.

Its also important to remember that nothing is black or white re: the use of some antibiotics and gut motility drugs or much else when it comes to rabbit medicine.

Yes, most often, not-so-knowledgeable vets too freely or wrongly prescribe these drugs to rabbits and do so in a dangerous manner.

Gut motility drugs are falling out of favor for sure. However, there may be a very narrow set of circumstances when a very very good rabbit vet who recognizes the dangers and downsides may still decide to use them in a specific case. There is some grey area here.

It's also important to note that there are a lot of bad rabbit vets out there, the experts don't always agree on these issues and contradictory information is very common. Vet clients really have to do their research and not rely on any single source, be it their vet or this board.


sas