Picking up problems

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I am not feeling very hopeful this morning :( Zero does not seem to be able to get off the Cisapride. He is down to one dose per day but every time I try stopping it he goes into stasis. He doesn't eat and hides in his tunnel. Yesterday I decided to try Oxbow's Digestive Support tablets to try and get him off the Cisapride and Benebac. I also started giving him a little square of green leaf lettuce on Saturday which he seemed to tolerate well. I gave him a little square again this morning before I left. I know the best thing for him at this point is to get on a normal diet of just hay and greens. I saw that the tablets have molasses in them but I am at a loss and its worth a try. He will be off the antibiotics so his sugar intake will be greatly reduced and I plan to start decreasing the Critical Care as the greens are increased. My poor little guy. Has anyone had any success with the tablets? They certainly do not smell good and they don't seem to be extremely palatable but Zero did go back to it a few times took some nibbles then started eating again.
 
Jenny, my current vet never likes your suggestions regardless of how much sense they make. I am going to try and get him in to see Dr Holmes he was highly recommended by a lady that does wildlife rehabilitation. I was reading his website and he believes bunnies don't need pellets ever! He might be just the vet Zero needs. It seems that a second opinion is defintely in order.
 
Okay this might be all in my head and it might not but my little guys belly feels better than when he gets Cisapride twice a day, we started Oxbow Digestive Support last night. He is producing lots of fecal pellets too. His last dose of Cisapride was at 4:00am (it is now close to 7:00pm). I just gave him a little piece of lettuce and he's eating his hay like its going out of style. Oh please work ::crosses fingers::
 
So you think it does feel better with the cisapride? I've read of some rabbits with ongoing digestive problems, that have had to stay on a gut motility med for life. That isn't the most desirable thing, and if the digestive issues can be sorted with diet changes, that is preferred, but sometimes meds are needed if nothing else works.

Well since those posts are gone.... Your last post about using bermuda hay, I mentioned that it probably should be ok, that sudden changes of grass hay usually don't cause a problem with 'most' rabbits. The only grass hay I've heard of causing problems, is mature oat hay with grain heads in it. But you still might want to start it out slowly for a few days, if you decide to try it, unless you think the hay he's getting now is causing problems, then it would be better to stop that hay and give him another kind.

And here was my other post and the links that I included in case you wanted to take a look at them.

The thing with vets is that they aren't infallible(non of us are). Rabbit vets experience differs, so though they have some medical knowledge of rabbits, it doesn't mean they have all the answers or won't make mistakes in diagnosis and treatment. That's why it's so important to find the best vet possible for our rabbits.

I'm not claiming my suggestions are an answer for Zero's problems. All I'm doing is sharing what I have learned from experience with my own rabbits problems, with what I've read of other's digestive problems with their rabbits, and the different articles that I've read about digestive upset in rabbits. When other health problems have been ruled out as the cause of stasis and digestive difficulty, my personal experience has shown me that the most common cause of digestive problems in rabbits seems to be from carbs and sugars. I had one rabbit die from my inexperience with digestive problems, so I learned all I could, and was able to help Zeus recover when he got stasis. Zeus and Toby are my best examples of sensitivity to carbs and sugars. Every time I tried reintroducing pellets into Zeus' diet, he would start to show signs of his stomach bothering him. Ever since pellets were completely stopped, he hasn't had any more problems. Toby is very sensitive too, but not as much as Zeus. Toby gets a very small amount of pellets each day, about 2 tsp. When I've tried increasing the amount his poops start to change. They'll get spongy, or mushy, or smaller, but he doesn't show signs of discomfort. Both of these boys are my megacolon rabbits, so they are the most sensitive to the food in their diet.

But don't take my word for it. Research and experience. You've seen for yourself, a direct reaction from Zero, to the hydropet. So you know that something in it caused bloating. The salt and minerals wouldn't cause a problem, so it would have to be the sugar or yeast, both carbs. This is how I figured out Zeus had a problem with pellets and critical care. I could see a reaction afterwards, so I knew it was the problem.

I'm not saying this is what you need to do, but this is what I would try if it were my rabbit. Since he is having difficulty coming off of the cisapride, I would keep him on the minimum that he needs for now, and gradually reduce the amount as he is feeling better. And I would feed ONLY timothy hay(with the seed heads removed if necessary). No benebac, no critical care, no electrolytes. Nothing besides the hay and that one med. As long as there was no stasis relapse, I would continue this for a few days to see how it goes. Then if he seems to be doing pretty good, you have your answer. If you see bloating and it is only after having the cisapride, then you know the sugars in it are causing a problem. If he is bloated the whole time, then you may need to go with a more fiberous less rich hay. But this is what I would try with my own rabbits. More hay most often seems to be what helps with digestive problems, that's just what I've found.

There's a vet that sometimes comes on here, that also recommends a non pellet diet, based on his experience with rabbits having problems with them. His user name is Geoff. Reading his past posts may be helpful, and you could try to send him a pm, but it has been a while since I last saw him post on here, so I don't know if you will get a reply very soon.

Here are links with info on digestive problems. I would also encourage looking at peoples personal accounts of digestive problems with their rabbits. They won't all be the same, but you will start to see a trend of most of them being diet related. There's also a UK rabbit forum(RU) that has some good info. You may even be able to post there and get some ideas. Rabbits as pets are a fairly normal thing over there, so the vets and some of the people on the forum, have a good amount of knowledge about health problems with rabbits. I don't know about vets that are rabbit experts here, but I know that Francis Harcourt Brown is considered an expert there. Maybe it would be possible for the new vet that you go to, to consult with her.

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/scivac/2005/Harcourt4_en.pdf?LA=1
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=484#.UZ8FPbx7LTo.twitter

I also found this one on pellet free diets if you want to look into it.
http://www.suevet.com/bunny_health.html
 
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Z's been binkying for the last hour. He's a little maniac tonight and he is half the size he's been for the last ten days. He's eating lots of hay has a bit of a rumbly tummy but I am hoping that will be gone tomorrow as tonight was his last dose of antibiotics. Going to try a slow wean off the critical Care this time. I think part of why he had stasis was his water intake dropped off. Tomorrow night we will know for sure if the Critical Care is contributing to his condition it will be the first time he has received only Critical Care as a supplement since he was two weeks old. The attached photo is Zero after a night in the oxygen kennel at the emergency clinic, we spent six hours there only to end up at the Exotics Vet three hours later. He was wondering why we were looking at him. Happens every time we are at the vet waiting for him to give us a fecal sample. He never does!

Thank you again Jenny for all your support and help, there has been several times this week I have just wanted to give up on him. :(

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Sweet little Zero. What a cutie pie he is :) I'm glad you're hanging in there, and I'm so glad he's pulling through. Having a sick animal is never easy, and this little guy has really put you through it. Hopefully one day soon, you'll get to just enjoy the fun stuff.

Lack of water intake certainly could have led to the stasis. Does he not drink much water on his own?
 
The water gets too cold in spite of me covering his cage to keep drafts out. Since I have been warming his water his intake has increased. Leading up to stopping the Critical Care he was only drinking water with Hydropet in it which I am sure was dehydrating. He has only one more dose of Cisapride I hope my vet will let me pick some up without bringing him in again.
 
He's so wittle, please don't you EVER think about giving up on him!
 
Well, now he is bigger still small for his age/breed less than 2lbs at 12 weeks
 
Update on the little man - since adding green leaf lettuce to his diet I have cut the amount of Critical Care he gets in half which is still divided between two feedings. (1/4 TSP of Critical Care to four parts water) I increased the water part to make up some of the volume and cause him to drink more. He's still getting a little gassy but not like it was. He had hiccups tonight when I was petting him which is really concerning to me because that is his sign he might bloat, but at the moment he is binkying and zooming around so I hope he stays that way.

Updated update - Zero and I were both laying on the floor as I was stroking his belly like a dog he stretched out his body and started to close his eyes. I sat up, he didn't move I touched his hay bag he popped up and took a second dose of Simethicone now he's wide awake. I am glad he was so relaxed but really Zero give me a stinking heart attack!
 
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I have thought my Yoshi had passed onto the rainbow bridge too when I saw him on his side motionless. I carefully walked up to him so scared at what I would see, when he would pop his head up with a startle. I had to laugh and smile at his sweet little face "o)

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