Panacur and hello all its been forever!

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Bangbang

Bangbang

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Well I know I haven't been on here in ages but according to my log in I haven't been on since November 1999 :| considering Bangbang wasn't even alive then I find that highly unlikely :p

Anyhow, Hello all it's been a long time! I'll update soon.

Umm Now onto buisness, I took Bangbang to the vet for vaccinations and the vet told me I should be giving her Panacur every 6 months (6ml/SID for 10 days)...

I had never heard this before? She said it was to prevent head tilts..??
 
I wouldn't give your Bunny Panacur unless it's showing signs of being sick. Panacur is a given to bunny's with EC. There are a few post in the Infirmary about EC and Head Tilt. Pancaur is to given for 28 days. And if u give your bunny it every 6 months for 10 days i would think u run the risk of bunny becomeing amue to the drug and if 1 day he really needs it might not work.

I would read this page http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=40368&forum_id=16&page=2

I have a bunny right now with EC and is being treated with Panacur for 28 days.
 
That's what I thought, she's a rabbit vet so I usually trust her judgement this last visit however I was starting to question her.

She also said that Bangbang was underweight - she told me the time before that she obese, she also ran fecal and urine tests but never told me what for? I work at a vet clinic but they aren't as bunny savy. So In the end i had them run the tests as it would be cheaper for me to do it that way, when my vet rang her with the results he said she was really unhelpful and wouldnt claify what she was looking for, even started saying i should have her ultrasounded etc but for what?!
She's healthy...

Now this panacur thing, i've been trying to find some information that backs up what she's saying and I cant find anything... I think i'll have to try and find anothervet thats rabbit savy (which isnt going to be easy in perth!)
 
Which leads me to another point, Rabbit urine what is and isnt normal any links onthat? In the past she said Bangbangs urine was normal then this last visit she acted like it wasnt when i was talking about it!?!
I left feeling very confused and unsure if i should be concerned or not.
I've just been told about another vet who has a special interest in rabbits, guinea pigs etc so Im going to make an appointment with her and see what she says.
 
We worm our buns once a year (so only done this once so far) with Panacur, as per reccommendation from our vet...

I can't remember the exact dosage now but it was for around 10 days....

Now, I don't know if that was helpful or not as I'd always been under the impression that it was a routine thing to do! :?
 
I worm my bunnies but its with an all wormer never panacur but she never said it was a wormer just to 'prevent EC the major cause of head tilts' now ive been seeing this vet with various small animals for 9yrs now and its the first time she's said anything about 6monthly panacur so thats why im so confused.


 
Umm....this brings up some flashing lights and red flags. Panacur (Fenbendazole) is a worming medication. It definitely won't hurt to worm your rabbits every six months especially if they go outside or eat fresh veggies. The part that alarms me is about head tilt. This is part of the long held notion that E Cuniculi is responsible for head tilt. EC is the most misunderstood of all rabbit issues....I have dealt with it often and in depth here. I have a personal vendetta against EC as many on this forum know. EC is a protocozoan that invades the brain and can cause some issues. Many people have associated EC and head tilt. Fact is.....most vets have never actually seen an active EC infection, much less treated one.They are relying on old and outdated information about EC. Not really their fault as there is a lot of "known good information" that just ain't so good and it's in print in reference manuals. Maybe one day we will have better information. Next, EC does not directly cause head tilt. The rabbit may tilt if it has an active EC infection but it's due to a compromised immune system that is being stressed by the EC that allows pathenogenic bacteria to grow. In advanced cases of EC, and we have treated active EC infections for that long to become advanced, the immune system is so weakened by the EC that it allows roving infections all over the body. In most cases with tilt and EC positive rabbits, the tilt is a bacterial ear infection secondary to the EC. It's all caused by the weakened immune system.

As far as diagnosing EC, the only true way is post-mortem. The best way we have on a living rabbit is by blood titer and it's searching for levels of antibiodies....not very good, but the best available.

The "bendazoles" have long been used to treat EC. I have treated several into very advanced stages. I haven't been really thrilled about the benefits of this family of drugs. It has a difficult, if not impossible, task in penetrating the blood/brain barrier. The thinking behind using these drugs long term is just hoping that some will be able to get thru just on blood concentrations of the drug. Most vets that have advanced knowledge about EC treat for 28 consecutive days....I have done 60. In reality, the rabbit's own immune system is the only true way to get this thing into something like remission. It's vitallly important to do everything you can to support the immune system in a rabbit EC positive or not....another fact, most domestics have been exposed to EC and it's waiting sub-clinically for an opportunity to show itself. In the drug arena, a drug that treats a similar horse condition known as Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis (EPM) shows the best promise for being an effective treatment. The drug is Marquis. I did start a test run with this drug recently but received the drug too late...renal failure.

Just a few thoughts since I have dealt with active EC infections so often.

Randy
 
Hi there :)

actually it's been since December of last year! Good to see you and so glad you're checking first.... I sure don't like the idea of preventatives like that!
 
Yeah i'm a little upset to tell you the truth, she's always been a good vet and had great information etc but somethings changed and she's now lost my trust so I think I will go else where.

Bangbangs has never had an ear infection or a head tilt,she does get waxy ears sometimes, not smelly or infection just she doesnt clean them herself (i have no idea why) so i have to. Initially i was told she didnt clean them because she was too fat and couldnt reach... so i put her ona diet her weight dropped and yet she still doesnt clean them ... i personally think she's just lazy! Then i went back cause it was still happening (the waxy ears) and she told me that bangbang needs to put weight ON and that she's producing too much yeast and thats why her ears are yucky... then the panacur thing and around $250 later i was starting to wonder what the **** what going on!

So i'll keep you all posted when i see this new rabbit vet...hopefully i'll get some answers.
 
I think a lot of vets - all types - get on this deworming preventative thing.

We've recently limited the worming schedule on the horses, because we are hearing that it's better to only worm them if they need it/once a year or so.

My horses are doing great with this!

I chalk a bit of it to "opinion" and go from there.
 
Bangbang wrote:
Well I know I haven't been on here in ages but according to my log in I haven't been on since November 1999 :| considering Bangbang wasn't even alive then I find that highly unlikely :p

Anyhow, Hello all it's been a long time! I'll update soon.

Umm Now onto buisness, I took Bangbang to the vet for vaccinations and the vet told me I should be giving her Panacur every 6 months (6ml/SID for 10 days)...

I had never heard this before? She said it was to prevent head tilts..??
Click to expand...

Kathy Smith is one of many who has written on the success stories of both treatment and prevention with Fenbendazole. (Based on a study published in the Veterinary Record in 2001)You can find extensive info on the internet.

I think thatyour vet is well informed and keeping up on progressive treatments. From my own experience and from researching the data, there is evidence that preventative treatment with some of the drugs commonly used as dewormers, can help to prevent "head tilt".

I'd stick with your vet.

Pam
 
Bo B Bunny wrote:
I think a lot of vets - all types - get on this deworming preventative thing.

We've recently limited the worming schedule on the horses, because we are hearing that it's better to only worm them if they need it/once a year or so.

My horses are doing great with this!

I chalk a bit of it to "opinion" and go from there.
Click to expand...

I generally discourage the use of preventative treatments for parasites due to the development of resistance in parasite strains. There is also evidence that a healthy homeostasis is maintained in an organism by allowing indigenous populations of parasites to reside.

However, the onset of head-tilt is so rapid, and the effects so devastating that, like immunizations, I think a little prevention can go a long way ;)



Pam
 
Its just so hard as so many people have differing opinions! Thanks for the link i shall have a good read
 
Lifes been a little hectic over the last year but hopefully its going to quiet down i shall make up a new blog for Bangbang and the rest of my animal crew so u can see hows she's been going!
 
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