Older Rabbit Freezing

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jessicalovesjesse

jessicalovesjesse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
230
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Location
Parker, Colorado, USA
[align=center]- Location: Colorado

- Description (Breed, color., weight): Mini Rex, REW

- Age: Around 6

- spayed/neutered?: No

- Notes on Fecal and Urinary Output
- are the bunny's poops and pees normal?: NA
- When did they last use their litterbox?: NA
- Any unusual behavior?: NA

- Medical History -- has s/he been to the vet or been sick before?: No, good clean medical history

- Diet - what does your bunny eat?: Timothy Hay/ Pellets
- when and what did s/he eat last?: Just now

- movement - any unusual movements? Is s/he hopping normally?: Falling over, lethargic

- are there any plants, chocolate or other substances within reach?: No

- has the rabbit been outdoors?: Lives outside (used to)



Okay so, I'm not at home right now with Pippin, I'm visiting family far away but here is what my mom said.

Pippin was unable to move and frozen to the core. She took him inside and gradually heated him up. (i'm not sure how.)
He is now apparently in the bathroom, moving, eating, drinking fine.

Pippin has been fine outside his entire life.
What would cause this sudden change?
Age?
Something worse?

Of course from now on he is an indoor bun despite my mom's allergies.
She loves me and him enough to put up with some sniffles.

She is also keeping watch over him very closely for now, checking on him every 10 minutes or so.

Tonight has been really stressful for me, I'm so worried about my little guy.

If anyone has any advice that I could relay to her that would be nice, thank you.


-Jessica[/align]
 
I have never heard of this. Do you mean he was cold, and not moving? Whenever a bunny is lethargic and/or falling over/not aware of the environment, it's an emergency vet situation.

Could he have had a stroke that partially paralyzed him? After some warmth and time, it may have helped.

I have heard of some people and animals going into an almost hibernation-like state when put into cold suddenly--like if they fall in a frozen lake, their body temperature drops and heatbeat drops so they can survive for longer than they would normally be able to--it's one of those medical mysteries, they don't know how it works. However, if he's kept outside, I would assume the cold set on slowly and that wouldn't have happened. The sudden exposure to cold is part of this thing I'm talking about.

It's good that he's inside, and if he seems totally normal for now, a vet visit can probably wait until the morning. I would still get him checked out soon to make sure he didn't have a stroke, heart attack, etc.

How cold was it outside?
 
I'm not sure if it was a stroke... my mom said it's like he has literally frozen. He could move but was stiff and slow and his body temp was extremely low.

It's been consistently cold here, but this night the temp dropped pretty far below zero which from what you said maybe put him into shock?

I will OF COURSE try to get him to a vet asap, but it will have to be when I return home. My mom is extremely busy with her college and my autistic little brother.
She barely has time to sleep. I'm so happy with her for trying to care for Pippin.

And from what I heard he is normal now.
But I still value everyone's opinions and advice.
[=
 
I would suggest that towels be warmed up in the dryer for his use, or alternately, a snuggle safe ot warmed sock of rice be available to him. I don't think I would be very quick to assume normality... it sounds like he has been through quite a shock.

Recognizing that he has been outside all of this time, I would advise against putting him in a really warm area of the house. Kind of like someone suffering from hypothermia, right? You don't just plunge them into a hot bath... it goes lukewarm water , warm warm warmer over a few hours. I promote your mom to keep him away from direct heaters... making warm towels available, but give him the opportunity to get away from too much warmth.

By any chance did he have access to drinkable water throughout the night? I wonder if dehydration may be playing a role here as well. He will likely drink more water if spiked with some apple juice or vanilla extract. Best to hydrate him, any which way.


 
Autumn has some good points. I'm not sure if the temperature outside could drop quickly enough to cause him to go into hypothermic shock--it's more gradual than that. Hydration could be pretty important. He could have been really dehydrated and that's what happened. I understand that things are difficult, and since he's stable, I'm sure it can wait a little bit.
 
Upon reading up more on hypothermia, it could have been a gradual cooling of his body that led to this state. Sorry, I wasn't up to date on my basics there. Being incoherent and inable to move normally are symptoms of severe hypothermia. Based on what I've read in humans, I'd warm him and provide extra food and water.

http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/safety/hypocold.shtml

You're not supposed to warm them too quickly, but at this point he's probably back to normal temp. Warm blankets, rice sock, snuggle safe, etc can also help.
 
I would also point out not to massage him to warm him... can damage his body tissue significantly if he is frostbitten... and frankly, I don't know whether I would be able to tell if a rabbit was experiencing frostbite.... too furry.
 
NorthernAutumn wrote:
By any chance did he have access to drinkable water throughout the night? I wonder if dehydration may be playing a role here as well.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

Hydration is very important in the prevention of hypothermia.

It sounds like he's acting better now.
Your mommay have found him going into shock and acted in a timely manner hopefully preventing any permanent damage.
A vet visit might be in order.

I vote for keeping him inside from now on.

If he's been living outside, he'd probably be most comfortable in an area that stayed around 55-60F.
My inside buns are good down to 55F, but I'll put the heater on to keep it around 60-65F.
He'll probably shed like crazy at first, until his metabolism gets used to the sudden change. His eating, drinking, and litter habits may change as well.

 
Thanks so much guys that was very helpful.
Since we don't have a cage yet (I just bought things to build one) Pippin has free run of a small bathroom right now which stays fairly cool.

It really sounds like hypothermia to me... and of course his water freezes overnight, but he usually liked it down until I could get him fresh water in the morning.

My mom says he is active and stable now.
He is in fact driving her crazy with all his poops.
[=

I'll pass on all of your wonderful advice once I can get a hold of my mom again.
Thank you so much.
 
jessicalovesjesse wrote:
It really sounds like hypothermia to me... and of course his water freezes overnight, but he usually liked it down until I could get him fresh water in the morning.
Click to expand...

For anyone leaving rabbits outside, I would strongly urge you to buy a heated pet bowl. The availability of liquid water 24/7 is 100% necessary to survival in the cold. Licking ice does little to rehydrate him... just uses up body heat in trying to melt the ice :(.

Type heated pet bowl into Google, and you should get a large number of hits.
http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/shop/index.php?page=shop-flypage-21809

I really do hope he can stay indoors from now on.
 
Another thing to consider in this situation is rabbit breed.

(Thanks to luvmyzoocrew for that reminder about rex coats... completely escaped me!)

Dr. Dana Kremples noted that rex rabbits experience even less insulation from temperatures due to the rex coat structure, as the coat is essentially made up of under fur with very short guard hairs. As the guard hairs are the same length as the undercoat, the insulative effect typically provided by long guard hairs in other breeds is substantially reduced.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/2009/9/rabbits-stay-cold.htm

Thus, it is evident that rex-furred rabbits will not be able to stand the cold as well as breeds with longer guard hairs.
 
Thank you for that info.

The breeder I got him from years back told me it was summer I needed to worry about not winter, and as long as I give him a crock instead of a bottle he would be fine.
Which seems to be incorrect information.

And he will be indoors from now on unless the weather is mild.
He loves the outdoors.
[=
 
I'd keep the lovely little creature indoors for most of the cooler times, like bringing him in overnight, but that's just me. I'm glad your bunny is okay!
 
The problem is that if you take them in and out frequently, it's more stressful because of the large changes in temperature. In the winter, a bunny should preferably be inside. If they're an outdoor bunny, and it gets very cold, moving them to a more sheltered area, like a porch or garage, is better than actually taking them inside from the bitter cold.
 
I've kept rabbits outside in hutches for years. As you can imagine, here in PA we has some pretty cold winters too. I read somewhere that rabbits need atleast 6 oz of water a day to keep from freezing?? I just watered once, sometimes twice, a day with the crocks (not bottles) and never lost one rabbit due to the cold.

I also tell people that summer is what you need to worry about. Rabbits can handle cold much better than heat but THEY DO NEED WATER- that's the most important. I would just make sure that rabbits didn't have a draft or cold wind on them and would usually let the snow pile up all around them to build like a little fort of nice, insulating snow. The coats they would get were beautiful and they stayed fat and happy all winter.

Basically, they don't need to be inside but it sure is alot handier if they are. I now have a heated barn (stays about 45 or 50) with automatic water but I can go back to busting crocks... just don't want the frozen fingers it gives ya.
 
It is true that bunnies are more susceptible to heat stress than cold, but temperatures below zero aren't safe for any domesticated animal to be in (except perhaps sled dogs), unless they have a very insulated cage and the water they need. Also, older bunnies may be more sensitive to cold than younger ones--this guy is age 6. At that age they probably have more insulating fat on their bodies, but not as high a metabolism to burn energy to keep warm. Bunnies kept outside or in a shed in winter also need more pelleted food than an indoor bunny.
 
I agree that rabbits can be fine outside of the house in winter, but it really depends on the housing. Not everyone keeps them in a barn or shed which are much warmer, and prefab hutches and many homemade ones simply aren't warm enough. Rexes also don't have enough fur to keep them as warm.

Here in Wisconsin, it's not that unusual for outside rabbits who aren't in a proper barn or shed to die of cold. It's why my mother-in-law stopped breeding after her shed burned down. Too many other 4H breeders she knew regularly lost rabbits in winter if they weren't in a sheltered building, and these were all nice big New Zealands.
 
Ok- explanation.

My rabbits are all "nice big new zealands" (loved that explanation!!). Our outside "hutches" were OSB board on all four sides (with a door of wire about 12x12 on front). The bottom was wire, of course. The OSB ran until about 2 feet off of the ground to eliminate the drafts and if it was really really cold (below zero) then the entire thing (rows of these hutches) was surrounded by a tarp.

To tell the truth, my guys did so much better in the outside hutches than the ones in the barn. For the feed- yes, they get all pelleted feed with rolled oats, some barley, maybe sunflower seeds and hay to burrow into. Most cages even had a nesting box filled w/ nesting material to keep warm. Like a little bunny heaven.

I'm not saying this guy should go back outside- seems like he'd do much better in the house since he's there already. I'm just saying I never brought mine in or saw much of a reason to other than the convenience for me.
 
DyemondRabbitry wrote:
I've kept rabbits outside in hutches for years. As you can imagine, here in PA we has some pretty cold winters too. I read somewhere that rabbits need atleast 6 oz of water a day to keep from freezing?? I just watered once, sometimes twice, a day with the crocks (not bottles) and never lost one rabbit due to the cold.

I also tell people that summer is what you need to worry about. Rabbits can handle cold much better than heat but THEY DO NEED WATER- that's the most important. I would just make sure that rabbits didn't have a draft or cold wind on them and would usually let the snow pile up all around them to build like a little fort of nice, insulating snow. The coats they would get were beautiful and they stayed fat and happy all winter.
Click to expand...

This exactly.

If your rabbit is an outdoor rabbit, it NEEDS to stay outside! They grow a winter coat, and thus bringing them in will over heat them easily. They're used to being outside.

I've always housed my rabbits outside. South east ohio has high humidity, very damp, and can manage -10 in the winter. The rabbits are perfectly fine. Have a nest box with bedding material and they're fine. Even mini rex. I've had them longer then I can remember and I've never had a problem.

Some of you who said you bring them in on 'esspcially cold nights' you're not helping them in anyway. Its more harmful for them to go in and out.
 
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