Old Bunnies and Breeding

[Pipp]

Bunny George, my homeless friend :craziness, in all his irresponsible glory showed up to borrow some pellets and get his new pet store bunnies in out of the rain (an open invitation on my part tomonitor their health and welfare).

He had his unneutered maledutch running around the living room for a bit with my blessings and specific instructions to watch him likea hawk around Sekura and Sugar's pen.

I was watching as well but went into my room for a minute, heard ascuffle, and came out a few seconds later to find the boy in the penfighting with Sekura, no George in sight.:grumpy He had walked out into the hallway to get something, and the boy (who hadn't previously tried to get in)chose that moment to take a flying leap from the couch, over theNIC panels into the pen.

I have no idea what happened for 30 secondsor so he was probably in there, but as we all know, a few seconds isenough.

Sugar has to be spayed anyway (I hadn't decided whether to put her through the anesthetic again -- shestopped breathing when they tried before but the vet saysshe'll be fine if they cut thedose -- I was 50/50, this will probably be the decidingfactor).

But I think Sekura is around seven. We know she's definitely over five -- I'll have to get Dawn to pin down some dates if she can.

So... What happens when does get too old? Do they not accept the male? They're not fertile? Or can they still get pregnant at that age just with dire consequences?:nerves1He and Sekurawere definitely fighting, not mating, and theyweren't lying back having a smoke.

I couldn't tell much froma look at the genitals -- the boy was at least trying to mate I think,his little sacs puffed up when I pickedhim up, and he lookedjust a little damp. The girls weren'twet, but maybe a bit moist...Nothing overt. What am I up against?



sas

PS: George actually stunned me with his lack of knowledge, even after owning (and occasionallybreeding) dozensof bunnies. He mentioned a 'time of themonth' and kept askingif the boy was lying on his side saying they couldn't be pregnant if he wasn't. :rollseyes

I'm probably the angriest Icouldn't get himrescue bunnies, at least they would havealready been spayed and neutered. George also boughtan unspayed fuzzy lop, guaranteed it'sonly a matter of time with her. He says he'll keep them apart, but yeah, right. The consequencesare that I'm probably going to have to keep him from droppingby, I won't be able to help his bunnies or him-- and that's tragic considering how well he does mentally when he's here as opposed to on the street, and that his bunnies need the support net.

But that's another rant I guess. :sad:

 

[TinysMom]

Pipp,

I wish Pam was going to be available to answer this - but I'm going to take a shot at it.

Considering the short amount of time - and the fact you didn't seem to see anything (like there was penetration), I'm guessing she's not going to get pregnant - especailly at her age.

This isn't to say that older bunnies can't get pregnant - I have heard of some rabbits being used for breeding till they were five or six or so. But I have a 3 year old that was "given" to me for free (haha...that is a long story) who has never gotten pregnant - no matter who she was exposed to. Actually - I think she's almost 5 now. Hyacinth- in spite of REPEATED attempts to breed her to Harry...only got pregnant once and had one baby. She was also about 3 and had litters before - and at times she lived with Harry for a week or more.

But other breeders may well disagree with me. I'm just thinking that for the short time they were together and the fact you didn't seem to see anything on/in her....that she probably is not bred.

Peg

 

[Pipp]

Thanks Peg.

What are the bestvisual signs? (I'm concerned about Sugar, too).

I'm not normally examining theirneither regions (I notice done hada couple of tiny white'pimples' around her vent,not surewhat that was). I don't know how moist they are normally.

Both are proven breeders, Sekura is Dill and Sugar's mom, no sure how many littersSugar had. Dawn mightknow.

Funny thing is George was saying he didn't think they bred too easily, and was talking about how he tried to breed his favourite doe and she wouldn't cooperate.I hear that from breeders all the time.But all of the 'He accidentally got out but he was just in there for 30 seconds!' people end up with 10kits.

sas

 

[naturestee]

:shock::shock::shock::shock:

No more Bunny George, please?

If worse comes to worse, there was a discussion a while back on Rabbits United about spaying older does, and many people have done this successfully including spays due to life-threatening health conditions like bad uterine infections.

 

[jil101ca]

I would guess that if they were fighting and not having a smoke then chances are she didn't feel very loving to him. At her age she probably didn't have any interest in that nonsense and just wanted to talk.

 

[Flashy]

We had a bunny that got pregnant at 6 (because my mum got her dates confused), and unfortunately, because her hips would not widen to allow the kits to be born, they ended up septicin side her, and by the time we realised, it was too late and she died.

Having said that, it sounds like there can't have been much time for them to do much to each other. I know some does can be very receptive and 'up for it' quickly, but generally they need the 'foreplay' bit of the running and stuff first.

Also, if the buck is inexperienced then you probably would have seen some sort of 'juice' on her nose (if he got the wrong end) or above her tail. Also, spray on her would have been a sign that he was interested in her.

Experienced breeders can often tell at about 10 days whether or not the doe is pregnant. I'm not sure how though, i could guess, but that wouldn't be overly accurate.

Putting and older doe through a spay could be pretty dangerous. They tend to prefer to do it (here at least) not much later than 2 years, at the latest.

But, like I said, I do agree that there probably would not have been much chance of anything, especially if theymight have beenfighting. Most likely, had he been truly excited and trying to mate then when you picked him up, and for a few mins afterwards his 'thing' would have been out.

I really hope that things go ok with this, it's not ever what you need. I hope that it doesn't cause you too much stress.

It might be expensive but vets can do scans on rabbits to see if they are pregnant, might it be worth considering?

 

[aurora369]

Sekura has had many litters before. Her last litter only one baby survived and the rest where deformed.

Did you see any semen on the buns? Normally if they are un-receptive it ends up on the fur above their tail. If theyare receptive and their was penitration, their will be dampness aroundthe opening of the vagina.

I'm good with booking Sugar in for a spay. And Sekura we'll just have to wait and see.

I don't think that Sekura would take or have fully formed babies just based on what I know of her past litters and her age.

You are always supposed to put the female in the males cage, because if you do it the other way around, most of the time there is only fighting and no mating. Females are not inclined to share their territory and are more inclined to fighting with an intruder than mating (initially anyways). So I think the chances are good that the little boy tried really hard to mate but got beaten off.

--Dawn

 

[Pipp]

Any idea of their exact ages? What's Sugar's breeding history?

Sorry 'bout this! (George is too. He even gave me $10). :rollseyes

Angela,Iblame myself as much asGeorge, unfair to lay it all on him.Both of us left the room but were only a few feet away. My room has a sight line to the pen, I guess neither of us realized the other wasn't watching. And as noted,it was unexpected.

I'm mad at him mostly for purchasing and refusing to neuter a boy --one of his mental quirks. :disgust:



sas

 

[Pipp]

jil101ca wrote:

I would guess that if they were fighting and not having a smoke then chances are she didn't feel very loving to him.At her age she probably didn't have any interest in that nonsense and just wanted to talk.

:lol:

Flashy wrote:

We had a bunny that got pregnant at 6 (because my mum got her dates confused), and unfortunately, because her hips would not widen to allow the kits to be born, they ended up septic inside her, and by the time we realised, it was too late and she died.

Ugh. So how receptive was she at that age? No budget for scans, that's for sure, but I think we'd be able to tell at 14 days (I think I read there's a good indicator on the 13th or 14th day, I forget what it is, though), and make a spay decision then.

I'm too shy to pay much attention to their 'privates', hard to know what's normal. But he either scored a direct hit (or two) pretty quick, or he got slapped around for invading their space.

(I wonder if Sekura has 'mothering' instincts with Sugar, her daughter, and ran her suitor off?) onder:



sas :?

 

[aurora369]

Sekura I'm not 100% sure about her age. She was about two years old when I first met her, and that was in 2002. So my best guess is 6-7 years old.

Sugar is about 4 years old, but again no exact dates.

At two weeks you can palpate and feel for babies. I've had pretty good luck with that in the past, so I can come out and have a feel.

At three weeks you can feel movement of the fetus, and see ripples in the belly.

What colour are their vaginas? Can you take a peek and see if it's a dark red or purplish colour or is it a light pink? If the girls are feeling receptive, their genitals will be a dark redish purplish colour and if they are not feeling receptive it will be alight pink colour.

--Dawn

 

[Pipp]

aurora369 wrote:

If the girls are feeling receptive, their genitals will be a dark redish purplish colour and if they are not feeling receptive it will be a light pink colour.

pink! arty0002:

(here's hopin'!) :clover:



sas :?