Oh my goodness... This is making me feel sick... Advice please?

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Kipcha

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Alright, I'm sure some of you have been following the story of Thumper, Buttercup and Skittles, three rabbits we rescued back inFebruary. These three rabbits were, at one point, living free range in the back yard but when they started chewing down plants and wood, the Mom decided she wanted them confined to a hutch, so all three of them were housed in one hutch together.

Thumper (Who passed away recently after finally going to her new home last week) had had some severe injuries dealt to her through something in back yard (I personally suspect dog or perhaps even an owl attack, the owners used to talk about how cool it was that owls would perch on their fence to watch the rabbits...) and thus, had her rear end permanently damaged and caused her to have an odd, dragging hop.

However, she was an extremely happy bunny still full of energy and always social, so we let her be (The injuries were old and already healedso there was nothing that could be done)and got her to a wonderful new home with a family that loved her very much. Unfortuanatly, she was only there for around a month before she tragically passed away.

Now, before delving in further, both Skittles and Buttercup have been rehomed, Skittles to another member in the hopping club (Who are a wonderful home and just adore her) and Buttercup will be staying with us. We're already seeing an enormous difference in the little girl.

She no longer hunkers in the corner of her cage and acts fearful, but is actually getting social and coming to the side of the cage when you go by and she's down to a far healthier weight. She was rather overweight, I would assume from the dog food they were recieving on adaily basis, as well as the major excess of fruits and vegetables (Instead of a slice of banana, they would get a banana each, as an example).We discovered Buttercup has some dental problems (Her front teeth line up straight on) and we've invested a lot of time and some money into getting her back to tip top shape. She's looking better, acting better, getting more activeand and overall, just seems like a happier rabbit overall.

Skittles is getting more social and is rather happy being bonded with a rabbit the family has already. Her coat is looking healthy, she seems more active and again, seems like a far happier rabbit.

For those of you who don't know, the Mom gave the rabbits to us on impulse, deciding to give them up before her daughter came home from school one day and greeted her home with the news that her rabbits would be leaving shortly. Originally, they were going to be donated to a local petting zoo, but we snatched them before this could happen. I could only imagine what would happen to those poor buns there.

So now, we catch up to the present. One tragically passed and the other two living perfectly healthy lives. Well, now they have decided they want the rabbits back... Including digging up Thumper, who has probably been buried for a week now.

They claim that the new family "killed their rabbit" and are demanding to have all three back, Skittles and Buttercup as pets and Thumper "so they can bury her where she lived her entire life". Honestly, the entire thing just makes me sick.

Now, when Thumper died, her new family was devastated and took her to a vet to have an autopsy done in hopes of finding out if they had done anything wrong. The vet explained that it was due to the care she had been recieving previously and the injuries she had sustained before that, while healed, obviously take their toll. Really, there was nothing they could do other then love her while they had her and try to make her as comfortable as possible.

As you can imagine, it didn't go well when they recieved the e-mail from the previous family demanding her body back.

And, as you can imagine, it's not going well with her wanting to take back two rabbits have loving families for them already.

I'm not really quite sure what to say to these people because they insist now that only they can properly take care of them and the new family should feel ashamed 'for killing Thumper'. They insist that Thumper and the others were 'completely healthy' when they came to us and that all injuries sustained after they came to us. That accusation right there was enough to get me wound up... I mean, how dare they?

But no matter what we say, she says that Thumpers odd way of hopping was due to arthritis... At 4 years old. I told her that it was extremely unlikely, and that it was injuries to her rear end that were old and healed, the 3 vets we had look at her confirmed this. No matter how much we reason, it just doesn't stick. She's convinced that her way of care was the best way.

Obviously, we are not handing the rabbits back over, but I really need some advice on this. How would you handle the situation?

It's sad that these three little buns have been tangled in this so much...



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I don't know if you have to obey some sort of Code of Conduct, but honestly, when I want a dog to stop beggin I ignore it. When a human to leave me alone I ignore them until they take the hint.

So, I would either ignore them or I would just send them a response with no lace or sugar that states very plainly that they surrendered their rabbits of their own free will and the rabbits are now the responsibility of the rescue that took them in. Since she willingly relinquished custody of the rabbits, she cannot have them back because they are no longer hers, they belong to the families to whom the shelter adopted them out to and she has no legal grounds to demand the rabbits be returned to her. If she signed a document, remind her that you have the paperwork and that the laws are clear.

With people like this, it's unwise to argue their obviously faulty logic. Do not speak anymore about the vets, the injuries, anything. Do not discuss Thumper's death any further. Just tell her she can't have them and your decision is absolutely final on the matter.
 
:yeahthat:

Totally agree with Kelli. These people obviously don't/can't/won't provide the care these bunnies needed before and they won't change now.
 
Wow, just wow. I knew that they wanted to dig up Thumper, but didn't know they wanted the other 2 back as well. I did sort of think they were just wanting free pet sitting, but this is just ridiculous. Absolutely do not give them up. Since they know where you live, I would offer to take Buttercup if needed and you feel that she needs to be kept safe (I really hope it doesn't come to that).
You do need to be tough with them. She has given up all rights to all 3 rabbits and she needs to understand that (sad as it is, we may need a surrender contract for these situations on the future). I do know how you feel about this family, and it is hard that you have to see them with 4-H. You will probably have to be very blunt.

To those who do not know these people, they are not exactly the brightest crayons on the box. They don't really seem to care and say and do some pretty stupid stuff. I am not sure reason and common sense really apply.
 
What Kelli said is exactly what I was going to say. Tell them no very directly if you haven't already and then ignore them. If they aren't very bright people then no matter how you try and educated them it will just fall on deaf ears.

You have to wonder what goes through peoples minds when they dump their rabbits, and are very cruel to their own child about it, and then a couple months later want a dead body dug up so that they can bury it in their own yard. ????
 
The important bit is really the circumstances surrounding the rehoming. If she passed the ownership of the rabbits to you, then she can't legally demand them back. However, if she was not the legal owner ie her daughter is old enough to be a legal owner, then she couldn't have legally passed ownership to you.

Did you complete any paperwork? It's a good idea in circumstances like this to have a simple form which confirms the person is the owner and signs that they are passing ownership to you. That way is you get any issues you have it set out in writing rather than having to argue based on what was said verbally.

I wouldn't argue the fact that one rabbit is passed on or that the new owners are better. That's not really the point when it comes to legal ownership. Just state clearly that after handing the rabbits to you, she is no longer the owner, the animals have already been adopted and are therefore no longer available.
 
If she has papers on them, at all, receipts or anything... she technically could get the law involved. I have watched this happen to many birds, all of them in horrible homes, but the owner decided "well, I want my bird back so I can abuse it some more" and they had a breeder receipt, whereas the new owner didn't ask them to sign a release form legally giving ownership over. And sadly, several of them got their birds back due to that legal technicality.

If she DOES try to get the law involved, make sure to get written statements by all three vets stating that they were receiving inadequate care and that the injuries Thumper received in her care were the cause of death. I don't know Canadas laws, but if there are legal requirements for care for rabbits, those statements could decide the matter.

As for moral/ethical what she is doing... what a *grumblegrumble*. I can't believe she would blame a family that took care of her, or a person who took them, for what she did. Unfortunately, bad owners often think they are taking excellent care of their charges. Take the high road so she has NO AMMUNITION against you if it truly turns nasty and politely explain that the rabbits have been adopted and will not be returned. Ask her to please stop emailing you with demands for their return, or accusations of abuse. Tell her if she would like updates on how WELL they are doing, to please let you know, but otherwise, please leave you alone. I don't expect her to, but it's best if she doesn't have scathing emails from you and the new owners if she does take it to the law.
 
" I'm sorry, they've been re-homed." End of story.
Firm and polite, broken-record style.

(If this person knows where you live, I'd move Buttercup to a friend's for the next bit.)
Do you interact with these people regularly?
 
We didn't have them sign anything because we did know them from 4-H (We interact with them a fair bit a few times a month, but I think this is going to be their last year in 4-H so we will probably never be seeing them again after this) and we didn't think this was going to be an issue.

I don't think we have to worry about the law getting involved over this, I think it's more likely they try something themselves rather then actually trying to get them back anyways. They really don't have any evidence they were their rabbits anyway, except for a small number of photos they had. They originally got Thumper by "pet trading" with a friend (I think they got her by trading some frogs or something?) and Buttercup was Thumper's baby, so they didn't get reciepts or anything. Skittles, I believe, was a gift or something and they didn't recieve paperwork on her.

I think that they'll probably keep pestering and such, maybe come to the house or something, but I don't think they would spend the money for legal action or anything. I mean, they didn't spend any money on the rabbits while they were there, why would they spend that much to get them back and throw them out in the yard again?

We'll just have to be blunt and hopefully this will all just settle when they lose interest again...
 
It wouldn't cost them anything, if they had receipts they could charge you with "stealing" their rabbits - if they had paperwork, but without it, they can't do anything. So that is good.

All you have to do then is, sorry they have found homes. And keep an eye on the buns so they can't snatch them away if they go that far in trying to get them back. Likely the news of Thumper's death set them into defensive mode, because they don't want to admit they were at fault and it's a way of denying the guilt they feel. When they get over that initial reaction, hopefully they will leave you alone!

I've had to deal with people like them before rescuing dogs, almost all of my dogs came from abusive owners and they ranged from indifferent to nearly obsessively defensive once challenged on the care of their animals. They usually give up trying to reclaim within a few weeks though, if they have no legal grounds to stand on.

Good luck, sorry you have to deal with these people. But I am sure the buns appreciate all you've gone through to get them out of there. :)
 
NorthernAutumn wrote:
" I'm sorry, they've been re-homed." End of story.
Firm and polite, broken-record style.

(If this person knows where you live, I'd move Buttercup to a friend's for the next bit.)
Do you interact with these people regularly?
:yeahthat:
 
You would be surprised - look at the New York pit bull pup that is being fought over because the people who picked him up as an abandoned stray claim ownership, whereas the the people who have actually spent the money on his care (and had him for MONTHS) want to keep him.

Two people I know had to battle over their parrots for the same reason - someone was keeping them in a cage, didn't want them,gave them away, then poof ... hey I want my animal back, I have the receipt and you don't. After a long battle, one got to keep their pet, one didn't.

The Attorney General of Florida had to return her ST. Bernard rescue, after a year (16 months to be exact) in court fighting to keep the dog when the original owners tried to reclaim the dog. She lost the court case and only then did she return her dog, who she had grown to love very much. In this case, the original owner wasn't abusive, but had failed to claim the lost dog in the shelter system (after a few months) so it was adopted out.

And it goes on and on...

But, in this case, irrelevant since they have no proof. The original owners can just be an irritant.
 
The rabbits are yours - I doubt these people will spent the money or exert the effort to pursue anything in court. If they continue to harrass you, report them to the police.
 

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