Now in serious need of help..

[Myia09]

So I am in absolute tears right now. I just don't know what to do with Sheriff.

We have been bite free since the last incident, but it happend again.

I just don't understsand it.

He was up giving James kisses and pets and what not, sitting between us, James kisses Sheriff on the head a couple times, more pets. and I give him a pet and then go to give him a kiss on the head and he just bites me on the lip severley. Like he hated me. He just lunged.

I am bleeding everywhere and I just dont' know what to do. I have filled up 2 towels with blood.

He doesn't bite James or anyone else..he will even nibble at me but he won't nibble at james.

Is it me? Whats wrong with me? Why is he biting me?


It doesn't add up. It isn't possesiveness of James, because all the other times he has bit james hasn't been around. There is no common factor.

I can't take all these injuries..I don't even know what I am crying about, if it is the physical pain or the bunny pain.

He is only 4 months old, a large breed, he is too young to get nuetered.

What is it??? I just don't know what to do.

 

[Maureen Las]

I don't know why he is specifically biting you but I am sure that it is hormonal behavior.

Believe me I understand biting as i have been bitten before and it is both emotionally and physically painful and also emotionally scarring. It is difficult to deal with the bun if you are fearful of getting bit.
I would just be verycareful in handling him( don't get too close)until he is old enough to be neutered because neutering will make a world of difference andI am sure that the biting will stop.
I really feel bad for you. Make sure to put ice on your lip and until he is neutered possibly wear gloves when dealing with him.

:hug:
Maureen

 

[bengal77]

I'm so sorry. I don't know if its hormones or behavioral or if the bunny just plain doesn't like you. It seems odd that you are the only one he bites. If it was hormones or a behavioral issue then wouldn't James have also been attacked? I think that some animals just take to one person more than another. It is odd that he is friendly one moment then lunging the next. Perhaps you should refrain from interacting with him for a while.

I don't know if it happens with bunnies, but I know this kind of thing happens with birds and some dog breeds. Cocker Spaniels are very posessive and become attached to one person. They will often try to "defend" that person from others, including their own children. I have a friend who had a parrot that absolutely loathed her adult daughter. If Lexi walked into the room the bird would screach and act aggressive/defensice. If Lexi made the mistake of getting too close she risked being flown at and bit. Yet when her mother handled that bird she just loved and loved on Vicki. She'd sit on her shoulder for hours and nuzzle her ear.

I'm so sorry! I can imagine that this is very upsetting and frustrating, especially since you don't know what's causing it. :hug1

 

[kirbyultra]

Might be a longshot but since he is only doing this to you, is it something you are wearing? Any perfume? Scent? Makeup smells? Hairspray, gel? Do you smell like other bunnies? My buns go ballistic (in a mean, biting way) when I come home from the rabbit shelter and haven't changed & showered yet. They are not hormonal as they've been neutered a long time. Some buns just hate the smell of other animals on their human.

Honestly I think it might just be hormonal too. 4 months is the beginning of adolescence. My Toby was neutered at approximately 4 months. His testicles had just descended. I took him in a week after I saw the boy joys. He was still tiny, but he was old enough. My rabbit vet was comfortble doing it, so it was done.

 

[Pipp]

I'm siding with the hormonal territorial thing. He's seeing James as his.

Its really important not to be afraid of the rabbit. Easier said than done, I know.

While normally I don't hold by the 'top dog' mentality of the pack, in this case I think you're going to have to show dominance, just to keep from getting your :censored2: whipped. You have to bond as a 'trio' and it's going to take a measure of dominance. Its not their 'way', but gently holding down their heads with your hand does seem to work.

My first thought was thank goodness none of my rabbits bite, but when I think about it, they do. Pipp is ridiculously territorial, she honks and growls and bites me on the ankles whenever I leave our room and she knows there's another bunny out there. I just laugh. She weighs two pounds, I can barely feel it. I don't discourage that, it's too funny!

And I take in unadoptables who are deemed 'viscous' by the rescues or shelters, including Darry, Dill, Scooter and Sherry. I nuzzle Darry, who is very territorial and hand-shy, and stand my ground with Sherry, who growls and charges. She'll actually open her mouth and put her teeth on me, but she doesn't bite down.

Dill (mini-rex) and Zack (Flemish) would try and convince me to put them down when I was holding them by reaching for a body part, but they both got over that habit soon enough when it didn't work.

I even managed to make friends with Scooter the attack rabbit.

I constantly remind them (verbally) that I'm bigger and stronger than they are and giggle at their efforts. They give up.

I recognize I might get bitten but I also know it won't kill me. I don't shy away. And they never bite again. (Well, except Scooter, but he wasn't territorial, he just had anger management issues - a very unusual rabbit).

Again, easier said than done.


sas :goodluck

 

[Sox]

So sorry to hear that. Hope your lip is ok and that you've had your tetanus shots.

First thing I thought of was exactly what Kirby suggested, possibly some soap and/or shampoo you use, perfume or your hair getting in the way? When you mention lunges, could it possibly be a danger reflex? I read somewhere once that just above the rabbits nose they have a blind spot? Could it be that you suddenly scared the living day lights out of her from a quick pet followed by a kiss? I know with Sox if I don't give her a good relaxing pet before I try to pick her up, she will get annoyed and disappear before I can even say boo!

Anyway, just a thought. Let us know what happens as I find it interesting and want to learn from these things.

Good luck, Carol

 

[Pipp]

Sox wrote:

So sorry to hear that. Hope your lip is ok and that you've had your tetanus shots.

You can't get tetanus (or any other disease, really) from a rabbit, but any open can pick up tetanus from dirt or other sources, so a tetanus shot or booster (if you haven't had one in 10 years) is always a good idea.

Rabbits often nip, but they rarely bite. I think territorial issues are more likely than fright. Mine have never lashed out in sudden fear, they run and dodge. They 'nip' when they're trying to correct my behavior. Slave training.

I know it was a bloody bite, but I think it really was more the shock and disappointment than the pain. And I think Sherrif was doing the territorial lunging and 'nipping' (which would have been 'hair pulling' to another rabbit), and didn't know his own strength, or just was in the wrong position 'nipping' the wrong body part.

Sorry you're going through this!


sas :rose:

 

[Cabrissi]

I am such a bunny newbie I hesitate to post but everyone else has throughly covered the 'territory', 'hormones' or 'fright' aspects of things.

I can't speak to the reasons but if he came away from his mum and siblings relatively young or didn't have siblings/exposure to them, he might not have learned how to inhibit and graduate his messages. Many animals learn this from their mum and siblings and may miss out on it if they don't get it due to being singletons, orphans or penned apart or removed from their family too early. Babies with their mums and siblings wrestle and play around, learning how to give subtle warnings (slight flare of whiskers, change in tension around the eyebrow muscles etc) and upgrade them progressively to things like grunts, growls, feints, nips, hard nips, bites, bites in more severe places etc. as well as how to placate an offended individual. For animals who don't learn those things, any little offense can be taken much more seriously because they don't feel like they know how to diffuse a situation either.

When I see an animal who bites hard straight off or who gives no/very abbreviated progression of warnings it makes me think either something has interrupted their learning those things from one of those things or else they may have been corrected for demonstrating them at some point in their lives. (eg getting punished for growling or feinting may lead to a bunny who doesn't bother with warnings and goes straight to biting or who suppresses the warnings until they just can't stand it another second and go kablooie. If they don't have a sense of inhibition to tell them how much to moderate their bite to a nip, their default may be a big honking full pressure nasty one.

I have no idea if any of this applies to your little fellow since I don't know his history or if he may have been a rescue and neglected or abused etc but I figured I'd throw it out there for thought in case it was useful.

Cheers,
Amanda

 

[Pipp]

Cabrissi wrote:

... I figured I'd throw it out there for thought in case it was useful.

Cheers,
Amanda

Amanda, I think that's very useful, hadn't thought of that, thanks! Makes perfect sense.

:thanks:

sas

 

[RandomWiktor]

I don't have much to add other than the fact that it would probably be best to keep your face away from him until he has been neutered and is acting out less. I know how tempting it is to cuddle a bunny up close to one's face, but it isn't the safest behavior in general, particularly not with an animal that has been nippy as of late. You must think from Bunny's perspective; he's a prey animal and a great big head and mouth is closing in on his personal space (personal space it sounds like he is sharing with someone he is possessive of no less).

You were only being human giving him kisses, but he was only being rabbit reacting that way! So please, try not to take it too personally; I know it is hard to do when a beloved pet bites you, but keep in mind that they're just critters. They don't know better, they don't understand that it hurts our feelings, and they're really just reacting the way they would to another animal in the same situation. Animals can't say "Hey, knock that off, it's bugging me." They communicate physically with one another and thus communicate physically with us as well.

Sorry you had to go through that and I hope your lip feels better soon. *hugs*

When I see an animal who bites hard straight off or who gives no/very abbreviated progression of warnings it makes me think either something has interrupted their learning those things from one of those things or else they may have been corrected for demonstrating them at some point in their lives.

Very good point. We see this in parrots that are reared by humans. People are so intollerant of mild exploratory nibbles that the parrot never learns that there's a difference between gentle mouthing and full on biting, because folks tend to react adversely either way. My conure aspen was from a typical high-scale bird mill, and was thus pulled at a VERY young age and probably raised by, well, imbeciles in a pet store before my grandparents got him for me. Unlike my other birds, he has NO inhibitions whatsoever about biting. There is no warning bite; it's all or nothing, which is why we've had days that he's gone from snuggling to rippinga chunk out of my face. You need to re-train boundaries into such animals.

 

[Myia09]

He isn't possesive of James. It can't be, because of all the previous bites James was no where to be found.
This also wasn't in his cage, or near his cage.
So I don't understand what he would be territorial of.

Mind you, if James puts his hand in Sheriffs cage, he will let James pet him and stuff, but not me. I get nipped, or even bit.

As the animal smell thing, I don't know. How do you tell? I dont' wear anything different. I wash myself inbetween animal exchanges.

Amanda, that might be something. He came out right at 8 weeks, when he was just old enough. But he has been around our other rabbit. But IDK. I just dont.

As for the nueter thing, this is a large breed bunny, and they don't mature as fast as dwarfs, and I checked and no testicals so far.

But what I don't understand is how James could give him a kiss in the exact spot and it be ok. Why James can do all this but I can't.

And for the "top dog" everytime he bites, he does get put in his place. There is no doubt, and he goes right back into the cage. He is also told no, with a nose bonk, and restrained from biting again (I hold him down)

James and I decided to keep Sheriff until he is old enough to get him neuterd and see what happens. I wish I could be like "Yeah no problem!" but I have been working SO SO HARD on this already. The major bites (Where blood has been drawn) has been 4 times. The minor bites (Painful but may break wthe skin w/o bleeding) is more than I can count.

I usually stay away from him, but he was just lounging and getting pet. Being such a good rabbit, the rabbit I love.

This really is hard. I have dealt with COUNTLESS biters with animals, but they have all been rehabs..not MY pet. I have even kept the rehabilitated pets, but that was after they stopped. I don't know if that make sense to anyone, but this is different.

Ren, you do not have to tell me that. I have years of experiance myself. The difference is, this isn't one bite out of space or another issue. These bites are random.

I have to go, but I will add more later.

 

[RandomWiktor]

*hands up* Woah, didn't mean to offend. Sorry if I insulted you in some way, I was justtrying to be reassuring since you seem to have taken this incident very personally Guess I failed at that.I'll just stay out of this one.

 

[bengal77]

You could try eliminating smells by using James' bath products. Use his shampoo and soap/body wash and deodorant. After a few days, when James isn't around, try putting your hand in Sherrif's cage and see how he reacts. If he still nips or bites then I think it is pretty safe to say that the bunny just doesn't like you for some reason. I doubt that it is hormonal since he only does it to you, or that you've done something wrong. I'm sorry, I know it sucks. I hope you figure it out soon.

 

[Myia09]

I am so sorry Ren. I am not angry at you, I was just frustrated. Its hard because I Know what I am doing, but it seems I can't do it to my own pet. I just don't want people to think I am going to give up, or that I don't knwo what I am doing, or doing my best. I am really sorry.

The funny thing is, James and I use the same bath products, but maybe its perfume/makeup/deoderant or something. I will try

 

[Jessyka]

I've been the victim of being bunny boxed in the face when trying to give kisses, so I know how you feel.

I think maybe some rabbits are just a little aggressive. I can be lying on the floor petting Bayou and all is well, but if I do one slight thing he doesn't like, he'll attack.

Maybe he feels like James is top bun and that's why he doesn't bite him.

Silly moody animals. :dunno

 

[Amy27]

Myia09 wrote:

I am so sorry Ren. I am not angry at you, I was just frustrated. Its hard because I Know what I am doing, but it seems I can't do it to my own pet. I just don't want people to think I am going to give up, or that I don't knwo what I am doing, or doing my best. I am really sorry.

The funny thing is, James and I use the same bath products, but maybe its perfume/makeup/deoderant or something. I will try

I think you are doing a great job with your bun. I couldn't imagine being in the position you are in. I can't say exactly what I would do in this situation but I know I would have a difficult time after bit 1. My rabbit has boxed me and grunts at me and that scares me. Though she has never tried to bit me, it is still scary. I can't imagine how I would take care of her or what I would do if she bit me. You are doing an amazing job taking care of your bun and trying to find the issue. I hope things settle down for you. This has to be so unsettling.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

The only thing I have to add is that none of my rabbits particularly like me messing around with my face close to theirs.

Mine all seem quite offended by it... perhaps Sherriff was "tolerating tolerating tolerating...ok dad.. still tolerating... ICAN't TAKEITANYMORE! *snap*... whoops, nailed mom " Rabbit outward displays being what they are, the cues may have been so subtle as to be imperceptible.

I don't know how similar this might be, but my parents cat loves being hugged. for about 3 minutes. Then, the ears move ever so slightly, the eyes narrow a bit, tiny tail lash, then full out attack. That cat just can't handle more than that level of stimulation.

Keep an eye on your watch, and be very observant of the specific stimulation you are giving him (I would suggest no face to face contact,though), and his body language. I would keep a small notebook, writing down time, action, location, who/what is present, your personal scents/products, etc. If you keep that up, you should be able to ID a trend over time.
(I can gauge my parent's cat down to the half-minute for when he will spazz)

Sorry if you know all this. I just figure that getting it down on paper helps a load in IDing triggers.
I also agree with everyone else that it should curb after neutering.

 

[Cabrissi]

Myia, I've been thinking about you and Sheriff for the past few days because it sounds like such a distressing situation for you both. (Hazard of being a behaviour geek... behaviour never ceases to fascinate me!lol)

Can you describe what you're doing (currently) when you 'put him in his place'? Also can you list anything you have tried in the past but discontinued and if eachseparate action improved or exacerbated his behaviour; and any other effects you noticed during their implementation regarding his behaviour or body language? Also can you tell me if James has done any/all of them and if they've had the same effects or you've seen anything different when he's used those methods?

As I said I'm not very savy with buns yet but I've a lot of experience with other animals (dogs chiefly, cats secondary and birds to a lesser degree) regarding fear and aggression. While each species is quite different in many ways, the science of learning and behaviour modification is quite similar from elephants to lizards to fish to dogs to marine mammals etc. It's generally more ideal if one can observe the animal and human interacting in person but since this definitely isn't an option given how far away everyone is from each other, feel free to include every detail you can think of and anything else that might be relevant - how long he's been doing it, how much it's escalated, any history of his that might relate to it either behaviourally or health-wise, any shifts in your household or routines, stresses etc. I have a few thoughts that might be of use to you but wanted to try and get a feel for what you're already doing or have tried to get a better idea of where you both are atm. I'm not 100% sure I can help but it certainly can't hurt to brainstorm a bit.

Cheers (and sympathies! it is tough going and you are doing a good job so don't be too hard on yourself for feeling upset by it!)

 

[RandomWiktor]

It's OK Myia; I really hope what I said didn't come off as trivializing to what you're going through, because it wasn't my intention. I think everyone here knows how much you care about your bunnies and that you are doing your absolute best in this situation. A lot of people would give up on an animal that is biting them badly enough to draw blood; frankly I admire you for being so committed to working with him. I don't have much advice to give but I do wish you the best of luck in finding a solution to Sheriff's behavior.

 

[Pipp]

Myia09 wrote:

He isn't possesive of James. It can't be, because of all the previous bites James was no where to be found.
This also wasn't in his cage, or near his cage.
So I don't understand what he would be territorial of.

I think you're underestimating their brainpower. They don't go by smell or 'live in the moment' like many pets. These guys are thinkers. And they hold grudges.

Oddly enough I was hanging out with Sherry on the couch and she just nipped my nose. But she was playing her 'grunt and charge' game. She's the only one who has turned it into a game thanks to her foster dad who would play with her by having her chase and bite his hand. She hadn't played it in eight months but she remembers the game and chases and bites my hand -- and failing that, my nose!

NorthernAutumn wrote:

The only thing I have to add is that none of my rabbits particularly like me messing around with my face close to theirs.

Mine all seem quite offended by it... perhaps Sherriff was "tolerating tolerating tolerating...ok dad.. still tolerating... ICAN't TAKEITANYMORE! *snap*...

Wow, all mine like being nuzzled, most more than being pet. I guess they adapt!

As far as Sheriff goes, I still think I'd try and counteract the behaviour with some dominance actions. Pick him up, hold him (one hand on his butt, one on his chest holding him with his back against your chest and he's facing forward so he can't bite). It will take time, but I think he'll get the message.

You can't really let him successfully 'modify' your behaviour with nips. One he thinks it works, he'll have no reason to stop and every reason to continue.

Oh, and I didn't read anything offensive in Ren's post and I didn't think Myia sounded offended. :twocents:


sas :clover: