Not eating hay

[CiaraPatricia]

Hi guys, my male lionhead rabbit doesn't eat any hay really (he might nibble at a bit) and won't eat fresh grass either. Whereas my female one loves hay and grass. I got them together and they are both adults, so maybe Leon just has never had hay or grass before?

He will eat veggies fine, or pelleted food. Though he won't overeat, he also isn't skinny. If I give him mixed dry food he'll eat all the pellets, and leave the seeds and grains. Which is the exact opposite of what I'm used to with the guinea pigs, who leave all the high fiber pellets! Evie the female rabbit will leave the seeds aswell, but she eats the grains. Leon will eat carrots, and other hard veggies and fruit. (By the way, I know that mixed foods aren't the best and that too many veggies and fruits are bad, just trying to figure out what he likes and make sure he gets a bit of everything )

Could it be a dental issue, or do you think he is just not used to it?

Thanks

 

[jcottonl02]

First off- I would never advise giving a bunny mixed food. They will be very likely to only eat the 'yummy' bits, and leave the bits their don't like, giving them an unbalanced diet.
Try moving onto a high fibre, low protein pellet- Oxbow, Burgess etc. Not only will this be more beneficial to your bunny's health, it will be better for their teeth too.

Check his teeth- it is possible that his diet hasn't been quite good enough (not much hay, no grass, and mixed food) to wear his teeth down properly. If his incisors don't look overgrown, his back molars could well be. Are his eyes watery?

Not necessarily are too many veggies bad. Too much fruit is, due to the high sugar content, so only give chunks every few days as a treat. But I believe (and others will disagree, but it is all personal preference and what is best for your individual bun), that bunnies should get lots of lovely fresh veggies a day. Not only does it make their diet more interesting, but it provides them with water, vitamins and an all-round balanced and healthy diet. My bunnies get a big bowl full of a variety of at least 3 different veggies every day, and they love it. Obviously you need to check that your bun is okay with lots of veggies- some may get a bit of diarhoea if they have too much, but many bunnies will be absolutely fine with it.

What hay do you give him? Try giving him a Timothy hay, or one of the hays with dried dandelions etc. in it. Is it a large bag of hay? It is possible that it is a little 'stale' and not fresh enough to entice your bunny to eat it.

Some bunnies just don't seem to like their hay. It is very important though. My Pippin scoffs hay like his life depended on it, and his teeth are perfect.
Benji doesn't eat as much hay as Pip (but eats a LOT of grass), and he has had some minor incisor problems (perhaps linked to the not eating hay, perhaps not).
Try different types of hay, and different brands- see which one he takes a liking to. He may never eat heap-loads, but he needs to eat as much as you can get him to.

It is also possible that you are giving him too many pellets. How much does he get a day? He could be filling up on them, and so leaving his hay. A bunny's diet should be 75-80% hay, and the rest veggies, pellets and occasional fruit treats.
Does he produce a lot of uneaten caecals? If so then this also implies he is getting too many pellets.

Hope this helps
Jen

 

[CiaraPatricia]

Thanks for all the info

He doesn't eat very many pellets, but I could try to cut right back on them for a few days to see if he'll eat hay, that's a good idea.

He doesn't have uneaten soft poo ever.

His front teeth are fine, but I'm worried about the back ones. Especially since his eyes do water. They always have. I know it is meant to be common in lionheads but it is worrying. I'll get the vet to check his teeth if I think it is his teeth, but just asking here first, because I'd prefer to avoid him being sedated if it's not likely to be his teeth.

I feed them meadow hay, which is the only thing available near where I live, but on Saturday I'm going to a big pet shop that has really nice types of hay so I'll pick up a bag. The hay they have is nice and fresh though.

I don't think he was ever fed hay or grass before I got him, maybe not even veggies (at a year old).

 

[CiaraPatricia]

Btw, he has no other symptoms of teeth problems, just selective eating and watering eyes. Is that enough to assume it's his teeth? I would ask my vet but she doesn't really know about rabbits. I can go to another vet if his teeth need looking at though.

 

[jcottonl02]

Hmmm- that concerns me a little bit that he doesn't have soft poos, yet he refuses to eat any hay. I would have imagined that he would be scoffing his pellets, no room for hay, and therefore would have lots of caecals uneaten.

That leads me to think it might be his teeth. And the watery eyes- these are a key symptom of overgrown molars, as they can grow into and obstruct the tear ducts.

I would try him on some yummy different hays, and if that doesn't work then take him to the vets to have his teeth checked, because that could well be the problem.

Good luck

Jen

 

[CiaraPatricia]

Thanks, I'll do that

 

[tonyshuman]

It sounds a lot like a possible tooth issue to me. Watery eyes with selective eating are pretty common indicators of a tooth problem. I would ask the vet for a facial x-ray to look at his tooth roots. Lionheads, dwarves, and lops are more prone to this due to their small faces. Best of luck to you both! And you might want to get pet insurance before you have the vet take a look at it so it's not a pre-existing condition!

 

[jcottonl02]

tonyshuman wrote:

And you might want to get pet insurance before you have the vet take a look at it so it's not a pre-existing condition!

VERY good point. Wish i had done that...... :grumpy

 

[Nummy]

Teeth is a good suspect. I have a male dutch and he never eats hay and has terrible teeth! His teeth were bad enough that a root grew into his sinuses and have left him with a constant runny nose and lots of sneezing! I would suggest getting a xray of your buns head to see what may be going on. That is how I found out about my buns problem. Good luck to you

 

[CiaraPatricia]

That's a good idea about the X-ray, and he would only need a sedation for that, not an anaesthetic, hopefully.

I was just looking up pet insurance there. It would cost me about €100 for a year, and to get an X-ray and have dental work done would cost me more than that, so it's a good idea. Thanks

 

[Pipp]

CiaraPatricia wrote:

Hi guys, my male lionhead rabbit doesn't eat any hay really (he might nibble at a bit) and won't eat fresh grass either. Whereas my female one loves hay and grass. I got them together and they are both adults, so maybe Leon just has never had hay or grass before?

He will eat veggies fine, or pelleted food. Though he won't overeat, he also isn't skinny. If I give him mixed dry food he'll eat all the pellets, and leave the seeds and grains.

----

Evie the female rabbit will leave the seeds aswell, but she eats the grains. Leon will eat carrots, and other hard veggies and fruit. (By the way, I know that mixed foods aren't the best and that too many veggies and fruits are bad, just trying to figure out what he likes and make sure he gets a bit of everything )

Could it be a dental issue, or do you think he is just not used to it?

LOL! He sounds like a dream rabbit -- a good bunny who doesn't overeat and only eats the healthy stuff.

You got the rabbits together/at the same time? How long have you had them? Are they related? We they brought up together? Do you know the male's eating habits before you got him?

Some bunnies really only eat what they know (unless its really yummy). But rabbits are also individuals. Even siblings can develop different tastes

A change in eating habits is a good indication of dental problems, but a preference for certain foods is not.



sas onder:

 

[CiaraPatricia]

I've had them about 6 weeks. They're not related but I got them together. They've lived together (in seperate cages) for most of their lives. The female took to eating hay and grass really well, but then again she eats anything, because she has 6 babies to feed! She always ate much more than the male.

Even with pellets and veggies (which he likes) he won't overeat them. And the female will eat about twice as much as him given the chance!

That's true that his eating habits haven't changed, he just only seems to eat what he is used to.

Where I got the rabbits, they were well looked after, lots of space, but no hay in sight. They had wood shavings in their litter trays, and pelleted food and that was all.

This morning I left him with the bit of food he had left over from last night (only the bits he doesn't seem to like) and some hay in his hay rack. He pulled some hay out and nibbled it but isn't really eating it. Whereas the female rabbit is tucking into hers. I'll see later if Leon has eaten the hay.

And I'll get him really nice hay on Saturday. There's hay in that shop with loads of herbs and flowers and all, and it's really green, so hopefully he'll like it. It's expensive though so if he eats that I'll try to wean him onto normal hay

Like I said he'll eat carrots and other hard foods like that, so hopefully it's not a dental problem. I really don't want him to have to have dental work done, especially when I could use that money to buy a giant run for my rabbits instead

 

[Pipp]

My dwarf wouldn't eat a strand of hay (or grass) if her life was at stake.

And I had a mini-rex who had no idea what veggies were, wouldn't even sniff them for the first few weeks he was with me. He'd just look confused. He was obviously brought up on cheap pellets, and wasn't all that dedicated to them, either, food in general was secondary. He preferred exploring the world and interacting with people. He did become a veggie fan after he started hanging out with a dedicated veggie-eating dwarf girl, though.

My current mini-rex was also a pellets-only bunny. He fell into seventh heaven when he came here, he's a long-eared walking stomach. He eats as much of anything and everything I give him, he's a bottomless pit.

But your guy sounds pretty normal. He'll adjust. I really don't think he needs to see a vet at this stage for his teeth. Are you planning on having him neutered? If so, you can do the works at a pre-neuter health check.

I really wouldn't x-ray him unless there are other symptoms. X-rays/radiographs are a great diagnostic tool but you don't want to over use them. There's a reason everybody wears lead aprons and the technicians stay as far away as possible.

Watch for picking up and dropping food, wet muzzle, runny nose, odd chewing motions, etc.

The advice about the different types of hay and grass is great.

Edited to mention that if there is a dental problem, its quite possible the the molar spurs can be ground down natural with a proper diet of hay, grass and a variety of veggies. I did see your reference to watery eyes, assuming the plural meant two, its unusual to have both eyes watering for a dental issue. Experiment with litter and hay, if it mildly persists try triple antibiotic ophthalmic (eye) ointment and if it gets bad or other symptoms appear, take him in, it could be a upper respiratory infection (URI) and the vet will look at his teeth (as they should with every exam).

sas :bunnydance:

 

[jcottonl02]

Pipp wrote:

I really wouldn't x-ray him unless there are other symptoms. Radiographs are a great diagnostic tool but you don't want to over use them. There's a reason everybody wears lead aprons and the technicians stay as far away as possible.

Watch for watery eyes, picking up and dropping food, wet muzzle, runny nose, odd chewing motions, etc.

I have to say, I agree with this totally. If you don't really have a reason to X-ray him, other than preference of food, then I wouldn't just leap right into it.
The preference of food COULD be dental issues, but like I said, the rescue probably had a full health check on him, and he doesn't have any other symptoms: watery eyes, drooling etc.

I think definately try a change in diet first, before you go into anaethatising him and exposing him to radiation.

Jen

 

[Pipp]

jcottonl02 wrote:

Try moving onto a high fibre, low protein pellet- Oxbow, Burgess etc. Not only will this be more beneficial to your bunny's health, it will be better for their teeth too.

I don't know that those pellets are better for their teeth. The extruded food is better than the 'pelleted' food because the fibers are slightly longer. (Better type of fiber for the gut, too). It also has a smaller chance of carrying bacteria (not sure this is much of a concern regardless). But it also has less vitamin/nutrients because the pellets are heated heated to a higher temperature.

But you can get some pretty gnarly extruded AND pelleted. Some of the cheap pet chain brands have ingredients imported from China (which has a terrible rep for using toxic junk) and the cheap farm brands can be homemade and sadly lacking in important ingredients.

I give all my bunnies a mix of pellet brands to cover the nutrients angle and help with the teeth, but my spurs bunny seems better on the extruded, although I am also feeding a variety of veggies, so not a definitive test.


jcottonl02 wrote:

It is also possible that you are giving him too many pellets. How much does he get a day? He could be filling up on them, and so leaving his hay.

:yeahthat:

Oh, and apologies for some of us (myself included) missing some of the information you provided! I edited by 'watery eyes' comment.


sas

 

[jcottonl02]

Oh dear- I think I am slightly mixing up two threads. You did say watery eyes too.




ETS- sorry- I really am mixing up two threads. I just wrote a paragraph about 'the rescue performing a health check on him', but this is a totally different thread. Apologies.


I would take him to the vet, and see what they say- do you have a rabbit savvy vet near you? Dental issues need to be sorted efficiently, and an experienced vet should be able to deal with this. However, I have heard of some vets who don't even CHECK the back molars- only believing the front ones to be the cause of problems. So make sure he/she performs a thorough check.

Jen

 

[jcottonl02]

Pipp wrote:

jcottonl02 wrote:

Try moving onto a high fibre, low protein pellet- Oxbow, Burgess etc. Not only will this be more beneficial to your bunny's health, it will be better for their teeth too.

I don't know that those pellets are better for their teeth.

Surely a pelleted brand makes sure the bun eats everything: the crunchy pellets (not just soft ones), all the fibre etc. and has the whole balance, but with mixed foods sure they can pick and choose, and may just choose the little squashed and dried peas or whatever those green things are P lol)- surely that would be a bit of a disaster for the teeth, if the rabbit also wasn't eating hay?

Jen

 

[Pipp]

Jen, the pellets have essentially the same ingredients, they're just processed differently. The extruded pellets have a slightly longer fiber.

The reason hay is best is because of the length of the fiber and the amount of indigestible and digestible fiber. Rabbits are designed to digest a 'low quality' high fiber diet like plant stems and other tough vegetation, hay included. Indigestible fiber is good, it keeps their gut moving. It also wears their teeth down.

Ah, edited to add that I'm not talking about the 'green bits', only the pellets themselves.You have to check the label I guess to see if they're extruded or not. I think the extruded are usually longer and more tubular, the pelleted are rounder, but we're going to need some more pics added to this topic.

The problem with the 'bits' really lies with each individual brand and what the 'bits' are. In the case of the green pea and I think corn, I think a major study showed that neither were properly digested by the rabbit. But the main problem was that as mentioned, the rabbits would pick out the high carb 'bits' and leave the high fiber pellets. The owners/guardians would empty the leftovers and refill, so the diet was never as balanced as intended.

Also, I think a lot of the brands with the bits are naturally higher in calories and fat. But I don't think they're all evil.


sas :bunnydance:

 

[jcottonl02]

Pipp wrote:

Jen, the pellets have essentially the same ingredients, they're just processed differently. The extruded pellets have a slightly longer fiber.

The reason hay is best is because of the length of the fiber and the amount of indigestible and digestible fiber. Rabbits are designed to digest a 'low quality' high fiber diet like plant stems and other tough vegetation, hay included. Indigestible fiber is good, it keeps their gut moving. It also wears their teeth down.

Ah, edited to add that I'm not talking about the 'green bits', only the pellets themselves.You have to check the label I guess to see if they're extruded or not. I think the extruded are usually longer and more tubular, the pelleted are rounder, but we're going to need some more pics added to this topic.

The problem with the 'bits' really lies with each individual brand and what the 'bits' are. In the case of the green pea and I think corn, I think a major study showed that neither were properly digested by the rabbit. But the main problem was that as mentioned, the rabbits would pick out the high carb 'bits' and leave the high fiber pellets. The owners/guardians would empty the leftovers and refill, so the diet was never as balanced as intended.

Also, I think a lot of the brands with the bits are naturally higher in calories and fat. But I don't think they're all evil.


sas :bunnydance:

Ah I see. Thanks for clearing that up .

No- they are all portrayed as 'evil' lol, but I am sure there are some good quality ones out there, which are absolutely fine.

Jen

 

[Pipp]

Here's the reference, it's from Harcourt-Brown, as many of them are.


Harcourt-Brown (1996) found that pet rabbits offered mixed diets tend to favour the flaked peas and maize which are high in starch and low in calcium and fibre. Locust beans are sometimes included as they are sweet and palatable, but can be swallowed whole and cause intestinal obstruction. Owners tend to discard uneaten items and replenish the feeding bowl regularly so that the complete balanced mixture of ingredients is never consumed.

This material is older, not sure where the recent info sits, but I imagine that pet food brand may have improved? Something to look into, anyway.


sas :bunnydance: