New Rescue to the Family Popeye

[Torchster]

New Bunny Popeye

- Location
Washington DC - USA

- Description (Breed, color., weight)
Rescue - smaller bunny just under 5 pounds

- Age
Rescue - believed to be about 1-2 yrs old

- spayed/neutered?
Male - yes

- Notes on Fecal and Urinary Output
- are the bunny's poops and pees normal? Yes
- When did they last use their litterbox? This morning
- Any unusual behavior?

- Medical History -- has s/he been to the vet or been sick before?
Just got the bunny - no medical history

- Diet - what does your bunny eat?
Greens in the am/pellets at night/hay 24/7
- when and what did s/he eat last?
This morning

- movement - any unusual movements? Is s/he hopping normally?
Everything ok

- any weight loss?
Had the bun less than month - unknown

- are there any plants, chocolate or other substances within reach?
None

- has the rabbit been outdoors?
Only to the car to go to the vet.

Now to the real issue. I was worried about a tooth issue with my new rescue Popeye. Teeth came back ok (I think that I over reacted to one instance of some water under the chin-he was OK yesterday and today). Anyway the vet was having trouble hearing his heart. I had a x-ray done and the vet said that my bun has a grade 4 heart murmur (her scale went from 1 to 6 - I don't know if that is standard).

She showed me the xrays and said that his heart should be about 3 ribs in size, and it was somewhat bigger (um, but what do I know about an xray!). I don't think that this is an acute situation, so I wanted to take some time to see what others had to say.

I didn't see anything about heart murmurs any of the threads.

Another quote from the documents I got from the vet...
"...enlarged heart and possible fluid/infection in the lung tissue"
She did mention the lungs didn't look perfect, but she didn't say that they were that bad either...just something that she noted.

He is eating normally. He is as active as normal. But before I drop $700 on an ultra sounds, blood works, ecg and the like I was wondering what there is know about murmurs in our little friends. The vet I went to suggested seeing a cardiologist...is there such a thing for rabbits?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Maureen Las]

Rabbits do have cardiac abnormalities but I believe that they often are not detected unless there are symptoms.

You may want to ask your vet what his plan of action would be once all the diagnostics are done.

if he doesn't have a treatment protocol in mind I may delay all the expensive testing at least temporarily.
here are medirabbits printout for you

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Cardiology/cardio_rabbit.pdf

 

[Torchster]

I haven't much heard about cardio issues in rabbits and I was wondering if there was even a treatment protocol for this issue. WIth all the off label medicines I'm not even sure it can be treated. I'm wondering what can be done.

 

[Maureen Las]

Kathy Smith 's'/Lucille Mooresbook "When Your rabbit Needs Special care" has a full chapter on cardiac conditions in rabbits. Kathy had abun with an enlarged heart and explains what she went through with him. He was on several meds at different times ..ome of which was enalapril (an ACE inhibitor) and later atenolol (a selective beta blocker)
I would suggest that you get this book.

I do believe that we have had other members with buns with cardiac issues so hopefully they will see this thread and post.

 

[Maureen Las]

http://rabbitwriter.synthasite.com/aboutbooks.php

 

[ra7751]

Do you know if the radiographs are digital? If so, can you either send them to me or post them on the forum. It's not all that unusual for any speicies to have heart murmurs. I am told by human medical people that most people, especially young children, present heart murmurs at some point in their life. A murmur is an ususual sound that is heard thru a stethoscope. It is nothing more than the rush of blood thru a chamber of the heart. Many heart murmurs are harmless but others can indicate a serious heart and/or lung problem. I have heard heart murmurs in some of my rabbits and in these cases, as far as I can tell, there has been no impact on overall health. As is your case, most of my rabbits are rescues soI don't know their full medical histories. My response has been minimal. I just provide proper care and make sure they eat healthy, get plenty of exercise and control weight. Keeping weight under control will help reduce the amount of fluid build up in the chest and heart and make the chances of CHF less. There are drugs that are made to treat this but the few I have used have yielded less than the desired result and in some cases caused a depletion of vital minerals in the body. I have been looking into using ACE Inhibitors in rabbits but haven't had the opportunity to do that yet....and as with everything else, these drugs could possibly cause some undesired situations. As I said, my primary response to cardio issues in rabbits is solid basic husbandry as there are not many options with drugs and other treatments that are available would not be feasible either medically or financially.

Randy

 

[Torchster]

I still have not decided what to do about my new baby Popeye. It's really hard to even think about. I could have $700 worth of tests done...but the treatment of heart related issues is so difficult in bunnies because there is almost nothing known. What are they going to do, throw medications at my bun, all of which are off label and could cause more harm than good, in hopes of finding something might work out? Could I end up hurting my bun by trying to help.

I'd gladly pay the money to make my baby better...but I kind of feel like I would be turning him into some kind of testing animal.

Of course by delaying treatment, I could only be makeing things worse too. UGH.

 

[tonyshuman]

I would think that if the vet thinks there is an infection in the lungs, that might be a simpler problem to tackle, plus one that could be more serious. My Muffin has a very slight heart murmur--but it doesn't affect her at all. I certainly try to keep her environment from being frightening to avoid undue stress on the heart, but I do that for any bunny.

I think it may be worthwhile to look into those drug treatments that angieluv mentioned are in the book "When Your Rabbit Needs Special Care". However, it may just be something that she deals with, without any special medication.

 

[Torchster]

The vet seemed much more worried about the size of the heart than the lungs. I'm just worried about making things worse instead of better.

Also, I'm not one for throwing meds at a situation in hopes of it getting better. I wonder if it wouldn't cause too much stress in just giving the poor little guy meds. He does tolerate some handling and perhaps he would be better than my boy Bert (who fights me every step of the way).

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I am very grateful for any that I get.

 

[Torchster]

I think that I might have figured this out.




Pic number 2



He was pretty wobbly for most of the day after these, poor little guy.

 

[Torchster]

Well my boy Popeye goes back to the Vet on Thursday for a battery of test. EEG, blood work, i think a sonogram...the works. I hope for the best.