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marie_martin

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Location
, Mississippi, USA
I have a holland lop doe that I bred 30 days agoand she has gotten progressively more grouchy but is not showing signsof hair pulling or anything unusual except for the grouchiness. Shetries to jump on me when I open her cage to feed her. I can put my handover her and get her and then hold her and she is fine. I have triedpalpating but I dont have a clue what I am doing. I put a nest box inand put hay into it and she has slept in it some but I have notnoticed her making a nest or changing it in any way. No hairpulling yet either. I did put her back with the buck on day 10 becauseI read that the grouchiness could be a sign of wanting to be bred. Butshe would not let him near her. So I am assuming she is either bred orthinks she is. I assume she could have a false pregnancy?? When wouldshe realize it is false? After the 31 days or whatever? Anysuggestions? Thanks.

Marie
 
Hi there and welcome!

Im no expert on breeding, but I thought I would move this to therabbitry section. More of our breeders check threads there, sohopefully someone will have some advice for you.

If I were you, though, I would take her to a vet or local breeder whoknows how to palpate to see if there are kits. From what I hear,palpating can be very tricky.
 
I am moving this to the rabbitry where you will hear more from breeders.

Most of my does kindle on day 31 - and while books will say that doeskindle from day 28-32 or something like that - most folks will tell youthat day 31 is the day most kits are born.

Here is a great link to read about breeding:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=5541&forum_id=8

Good luck with your doe and welcome to the forum!

Peg
 
Thanks for the info. I don't feel anything inher tummy but she sure is grouchy which is a sign of pregnancy. Somaybe a false pregnancy.

Marie
 
A rabbit with a false pregnancy will pull fur around day....14-18 I think it is? I forget..but something like that..

Peg
 
Well she is on day 30, so it should not be falsethen right? She did not let him re-breed her so it had to be the firstday. Maybe there is only one baby and that is why I can't feelanything?? Is that uncommon with first pregnancies?

Marie
 
Hi and welcome! Sorry if this sounds rude, itisn't meant to be, but as you say you don't know what you are doingwhen it comes to palpatating, i guess you aren't a breeder or haven'tbred much before, is that about right? I know very little, i just hadone accidental breeding and i tried to palpatate my doe and i couldn'tfeel anything and she didn't look bigger but she had 6 babies the nextday, so don't think she isn't! I had also heard if she won't let themale near her then she is already pregnant so i tried it with the dadand she wouldn't let him mate her, so it was true in my case so it maybe with yours too. Also my doe only really put weight on in her dewlap,which got really big during pregnancy. And finally i checked on my doeat 6 am, there was no nest or fur or anything, at 10 am there was anest with fur and 6 babies, so last minute fur pulling is usual.
 
I have does that don't pull fur or nest until a half hour before they kindle.

One of the signs I look for is a reduction in the amount of food they consume

a day or so before they kindle.

I am usually good at palpating but I have had a few does trick me and

produce a litter when I thought that they weren't bred. That is why I always

give a nest box to any doe that I have bred and I never test breed them

to see if they are bred. Some does will accept a buck even if they are bred

and they can get pregnant in the other horn of their uterus. This will

play havoc with their hormones and they will usually lose both litters.

I would just give the doe a nest box with plenty of hay and leave her alone

unless you see obvious signs of distress. Don't get too worried if she doesn't

have them on day 31. Lot's of does will go past their due dates by a day

or two.

Roger


 
Thanks everyone. I appreciate it. I breednigerian dwarf goats but this is my first time with Holland Lops, orany bunny for that matter. I know that most here don't agree withbreeding unless you are a breeder and going to show or sell showrabbits, but I am very responsible for my animals and that is why Iresearched before, but there are not other breeders near me. I had tolearn on my own about my goats so I am a pretty fast learner. I don'tplan to breed her again. I just wanted more rabbits and didnot want to go buy them from the "sale" like I have heard some do. Iwould rather have my own that I take care of. I know some don't agree,but that is ok too. Thanks for your help and I will let you know whathappens. I cleaned out the nesting box because she had been laying inthere and had messed it up. I just put the hay beside it so she couldmake her own nest. I hope that works. No babies as of last night. Iwill check on her in a bit. Thanks again.

Marie
 
Well, she kept pooing and peeing in the nest boxso I stopped putting hay into it and put the hay beside it, thinkingmaybe she wanted to make her own nest, or really that she was having afalse pregnancy. On day 33, I went out to find that she had deliveredand that the one baby was dead. It looked fully formed and she hadpulled fur and made a nest in the hay beside the box. I should have putit back into the box, but I honestly did not think she was pregnant. Icould not feel anything in her tummy and she did not have any milkglands that I could tell?? I guess rabbits are like goats and some getmilk after the babies are born? Anyway, I am very sad, because I feelthat it was my fault. She obviously was not tending to it though. Itwas like 3-4 in. long, very nicely filled out and had nails and tinyteeth. Could she have held it too long and that cause the baby not tobe alive. I checked on her often but I should have had them in thehouse. It is pretty warm here this time of year. I checked her thatmorning and nothing, but by that afternoon, that is what I found. Iknow things like that happen and you have to deal with it if you breedany type of animal, but it is still sad. Just thought I would let youknow. Mom seems fine, I cleaned out the cage today, gave her a few daysto settle down. She seems lots less aggressive now. Guess it was thehormones.



Marie
 
Hi! Yes a baby that is inside too long can be stillborn. It does happen a lot. I'm glad that mama is ok.

Understand that even with the hay BESIDE the nestbox - she still couldhave build a nest in it - I had one doe that runs loose (long story)steal hay and make her nest.....right behind (almost in) our clothesdryer in the garage. I certainly did NOT put hay there for her and didnot think she was even pregnant!

Don't beat yourself up over this - I frequently lose litters with firsttime mamas. Its like they need that first time to teach them what todo...

Peg
 
Yes she built a nest with the hay that waslaying there beside the nest box. She just did not put it in the box.She made a nest right there and she pulled hair and had the babycovered with fur just like I read they are suppose to do. So I know thebaby was not cold. It is quite warm here already. It may have been toowarm, but I don't think so. It is not THAT hot yet and they are in acovered area not out in the sun. I really think she got stressed fromme taking her out to check on her and stuff and just kept the kit intoo long and it was born dead, but I will never know. Next time, if Ido breed her again, I will put her in a small crate and bring her in.That way I can watch more carefully and she wont be exposed to theelements. Thanks so much for you kind words. I really am glad that sheis ok. I did not want anything to happen to her or her baby. But Iunderstand that is the way it works sometimes. I just want to do all Ican so that I know it wasn't from my negligence. Thanks again.



Marie
 
If you do decide to breed her again let the buck breed her several times

and you may even want to bring her back to the buck an hour later.

A good sized litter is easier for a doe to deliver than one kit who

gets all the resources in the womb and gets too large.

Roger
 
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