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Janiene Quigley

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Hello everyone. We are new holland lop bunny owners and was hoping to get some feedback from a live forum instead of frantically searching the internet. Our male holland lop, Tucker, is 6.5 weeks old (12/10/18) and an absolute joy! This is our first bunny and he has a crate with a litter box and playpen (2x/day @ 1-3 hours each time). We are feeding him Sherwood baby food (combined with the breeders Purina) and Timothy Hay - no treats. He is very active with his quiet time typically being from 11a - mid-afternoon. In the morning, in his litter box (grid on top), there are long cecotropes (dark in color, glossy, firm but softer than his regular poop). I can upload a pic if necessary. We are only finding that poop in the morning though? Is he supposed to poop like that? I've also read that they are supposed to eat the cecotropes? Is that true? Should I leave some out on the bottom of his crate? Also, his urine is dark yellow? Is that normal, anything I should be alerted to? Thank you!
 
I know that I replied to your first one but maybe @JBun can help?
 
Yes, rabbits usually should be consuming their cecotropes. They contain essential nutrients that they need. They are usually produced at night, so it's not unusual for you to only be seeing them in the morning. And it's not unusual for baby rabbits to leave some cecotropes behind uneaten. Baby rabbits are easily distracted, especially in a new home with all sorts of new things going on, and this can cause them to forget to eat them once in a while. It shouldn't be a problem as long as you aren't seeing a whole bunch of them and that it gradually improves where you are seeing less and less being left uneaten, til you don't see any at all. You should see the improvement as your bun gets older and gets used to his new home.

If you are seeing a lot of them now or continue to see the problem, one thing I can see might be an issue is the grate you are using on the litter box. Your bun could be dropping the cecals through the grate before he has a chance to eat them. If they are intact(not mushed up) and fresh, you could offer them to him to see if he will eat them. But if they aren't fresh or have been squished, I wouldn't offer them. But you may need a different litter box set up for now so that your bun isn't losing his cecals through the grate. A rabbit safe litter like wood pellets, covered with a layer of hay is the set up a lot of us use and it works well. Aside from that, if the problem continues, sometimes too many pellets and not enough hay can cause excess cecals to be produced, but I don't think that can be pointed to as the cause yet, since there are other more likely causes at this point that would need to be ruled out.
https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/odor-free-home.html

If he's drinking well, the urine sounds ok. If he drinks from a bottle, I prefer dishes as they tend to drink better and more water from a dish, so just is generally better for their hydration. It can be a struggle for them sometimes, to get enough water though a bottle with a spout. So if he is drinking from a bottle and not able to get enough water out of it, a dish should help the urine lighten up some and be less concentrated(if it is), as he'll be better hydrated.

One thing I would advise is be very cautious with your little buns diet right now. Holland lops can have a sensitive digestion as it is, and your bun really is too young to have been taken from mom(8 weeks minimum is recommended and required in some states), which can make them especially sensitive to harmful digestive disease developing. Once you get him gradually switched onto the sherwood food, I would only feed that and his hay until he is older. I wouldn't offer any treats, veggies, or change his diet in any other way. And keep a very close eye on his poop. Fecal poop should be the normal round balls, not odd shapes/sizes, watery or pudding like(emergency when it's not just the cecotropes that are mushy), no mucous or gel substance(emergency). And cecotropes if not eaten, should look like blackberry clusters(if not immediately consumed by your bun) and not pasty. Any abnormalities from what they normally should look like can be an indication of a potential health problem developing, as can a sudden and unusual lack of appetite and subdued behavior. So as a new rabbit owner, these are things it's always good to keep a close watch on. In fact you pretty much do it for the rest of your rabbits life as changes in poop, appetite, and behavior are the best and usually first indications of a health problem developing, and most often an indication to get your bun to the vet right away.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/drop/Drp_en.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Generalities/Enteritis_en.htm

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING LINK CONTAINS GRAPHIC NECROPSY PHOTOS
This has a good explanation of weaning diarrhea and how it occurs, there is just a very graphic photo, so don't click on it if you can't handle that type of thing.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Weaning/Sevrage_en.htm (WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTO)

I hope I haven't scared you too much, but it really can be a dangerous thing for some young rabbits, so you do need to be aware of it. But hopefully your bun will settle in just fine and you won't have any issues. And it sounds like he is and that he's not stressed at all, which can be the biggest risk factor for them.
 
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Thank you! I am so appreciative of your thoughtful reply. We switched from a water bottle to a dish because we were concerned that he wasn't drinking enough. He is only eating hat and baby food - no treats at all. Tucker's poops all seem fine, but I do think that we should remove the grate from his litter box for now to ensure that he is getting whatever he needs from the cecotropes (which are glossy, dark and clustered as you described). I do notice today that he is peeing more than he has - perhaps because he is drinking more from the bowl. However, his urine has been looking more of a yellowish milky color than yellow. Is that him passing calcium too? I've been blotting it with a small piece of paper towel and laying it in his litter box to help with training and while it is not drying with a brown ring around it, I'm wondering if that is okay? When he pees on a corrugated box, it does dry with a white ring around it which I've read is good (passing calcium). Speaking of the corrugated box (one he uses as a tunnel to run through and the other we have in the playpen if he wants to hide/retreat) - he has been tearing at that, is that okay? Tucker is VERY alert, loves to socialize and be pet and binky's in his play pen often so I'm pretty confident that he is fine!

If you agree, I will remove the grate from his litter box? Any comments/suggestions with the pee? Are the corrugated boxes okay?

Thanks JBun!
 
The white in the urine is excess calcium. Some calcium sediment is normal in rabbit urine and as long as the urine isn't thickened and a creamy or gritty consistency(bladder sludge, hypercalciuria), then it's usually not a problem. As you get him switched off the purina it could possibly diminish some, but if it doesn't and you feel like there is too much calcium being excreted in his urine, you can always reduce pellet amounts so he is eating more of his timothy hay, which should reduce the calcium deposits. Timothy hay is low in calcium and the alfalfa hay in the sherwood pellets is high in calcium.

Rabbits love ripping up cardboard boxes. As long as it's only being ripped up and no more than tiny bits are consumed, it's usually fine. The only problem I've ever read of is rabbits that want to consume large amounts of the cardboard resulting in a digestive obstruction. But for most rabbits, they just want to shred it and it's never a problem for them.

I would remove the grate. I've used them in the past but found I prefer not using them, and my rabbits seem to like it better not having them as well. With a good litter box set up, a grate really isn't needed. The more comfortable the litter box is to be in, the more time bun spends in there eating hay, which is what you want to encourage, provided it's also kept clean.
 
Thank you JBun! The infomation you have provided is so helpful. We removed the grate last night and it appeared as though a tornado moved through his cage! I'm not sure we will be able to go that route. Morever, Tucker did actually spend a lot of time in the litter box with the grate. We have his bin with hay right beside it so that he is in the box while eating and have since lined the perimeter of the litter box with hay which he seems to enjoy as well. I'm placing the clustered cecotropes on the floor of his playpen and crate in the hopes that he will eat them. He is such a joy to have and seems to be having fun himself so I think all is well with some modifications here are there. Again, thank you for taking the time to provide such a thorough reply and sharing your expertise.
 

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