Need help with flemish color genetics - steels?

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TinysMom

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First of all - I currently have five flemish in my herd. My goal is to work with light grey - with perhaps some white and some black. I know it is possible I might wind up with steel - not sure I understand how that works.

The herd - Nyx is black and her pedigree shows black in the information I have. She's a nice rich black color too.

Sophia is light grey and in he rpedigree going back three generations she only has light grey and white - and I do think sometimes she carries white because sometimes I think I see a pink cast to her eye (hard to explain - but I feel she might be a white carrier since her grand dam was white). She is a beautiful light grey color.

Athena has a steel grey grand dam and some steel greys on her sires side back three generations - but the majority of her pedigree is light grey. Even her breeder said that she was a bit darker than he liked for light grey but she had several strengths as far as body type, etc.

Mercury is light grey and he has white and light grey in his pedigree. I do also suspect him of being a white carrier. He is a repeat breeding of an earlier litter and his older brother has been winning at shows and is just an awesome looking buck. At first he looked so-so but over the past week or so he's really started developing and I'm VERY pleased with his body shape AND color.

Hermes is white. His sire was steel and his dam was light grey. His sire's line is all steel and his dam's line is all light grey. The breeder didn't have his pedigree handy at the time - he was thinking that he carried black - turns out it was steel.

Now when I breed - I will be breeding by more than just color as I will be considering temperament and body type and stuff. But I really could use some advice as I understand nothing about the steel gene.

My plans were to breed Athena (the darker grey doe) to Hermes to lighten up the color plus he has strengths that she didn't have. I was going to breed Sophia - the light grey doe - to Mercury - the light grey buck because they both have very good type and compliment each other well.

I was originally going to breed Nyx (black) to Hermes (white) because I thought he carried black...now I'm leaning towards breeding her to Mercury because both have very nice bodies.

As far as colors go - is there any combination that will minimize steel? Also - I want to keep my blacks nice and black....



Help?
 
[sub]**** runs into thread to tell you that I want a light grey baby girl from Mercury, then runs out of thread ***[/sub]
 
undergunfire wrote:
[suB]**** runs into thread to tell you that I want a light grey baby girl from Mercury, then runs out of thread ***[/suB]
Yes - but Mercury and Nyx or Mercury and Sophia?
 
TinysMom wrote:
undergunfire wrote:
[sub]**** runs into thread to tell you that I want a light grey baby girl from Mercury, then runs out of thread ***[/sub]
Yes - but Mercury and Nyx or Mercury and Sophia?
Tough choice! I have no idea!! Whatever is in the late summer/fall of next year :p (and yes, I am pouting that I have to wait that long, but it is for the better!).
 
Steel is very sneaky and it's almost impossible to remove steel from a line because it doesn't express itself in a self coat.

However - Two rabbits that are clearly agoutis withoutsteel coloringdon't have the steel gene.

Pam
 
Pam,

This is what I think I'm understanding...

If I breed my REW (who may hide the steel) to my light grey doe - I can keep any light greys that come out of that breeding because the steel should be bred out?

And if I breed my black to my light grey buck - I should not get any steels since he is light grey and supposedly she is from all-black lines?

Am I understanding that correctly?

One final question - Athena is sort of a "dark" light grey...could she be a steel that hasn't really shown good steel coloring? Or is it just that she is darker than my other 2 light greys?

Athena (darker)
DSCF0750-1.jpg


Both Girls together
DSCF0756-1.jpg
 
What it looks like to me is that your lighter girl is wideband and Athena is not. Wideband light grays can look a lot lighter, almost squirrel(blue chinchilla) my light grays were darker because they weren't wideband, more like Athena. They were still showable, even if the paler light gray color was considered more desireable.
 
The all black lines can also be steels since steel only expresses itself on the agouti coat.

Pam
 

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