Nasal Discharge and Motion Sickness

[Amy27]

Several months ago the Little Bunny was diagnosed with Bordetella and treated with SMZ-TMP for 2 weeks. Well I noticed a few days ago the hair around her nose was looking yellow. It was dry and looked stained but decided I would take her into the vet today when I took Chase.

The vet gave me Azitromycin 250mg/ml to give her for two weeks. She is assuming it is the Bordetella and the previous antibiotic wasn't strong enough. A culture was done previously so they know what antibiotic it is sensitive to.

Another concern is that the vet saw small lingual spurs on her bottom teeth. I asked the vet for x-rays as I have read here that sometimes the problem is in the root of the tooth and can't be seen. The vet stated that to get root x-rays the rabbit has to be sedated with gas as they get 5 views and are specific to the type of views to see the root properly. Because of the nasal discharge she does not want to have her breathe in gas. So we are going to wait and she goes back in 2 weeks. Is that true that to get x-rays of the root of a tooth that a rabbit has to be sedated? Both of my rabbits have had x-rays before with out sedation, by this vet too. I just find that odd that x-rays of the teeth would be so different.

Another issue is the car ride to the vet. The Little Bunny literally looks like death is over her when she is riding in the car. I thought it was fear but as soon as we get to the vets office she is fine, it is just during the car ride. I would think if it was fear, it would be the same at the vets office. Her eyes water and she holds her head in a really wierd way facing up, she also has a ton of nasal discharge in the car. Before putting her in her carrier today I checked her nose and the stain was almost gone. I thought to myself the vet is going to think I am crazy for bringing her in. By the time we got to the vets office her nose was covered in green crap, so bad it was on her chest. No the stain before was just yellow not this green. The otoscopic exam and her breathing was normal, to the vet it didn't sound like she was having any problems breathing.

So when I tell the vet I checked her nose before leaving and tell her how she looked in the car the vet thinks she was car sick. So she gave her some Metoclopramide at the office and cleaned up her nose. She also gave me some Sulcrafate to give her at home for a few days to coat the esophagus. The vet's belief is that rabbit's can't vomit. But she stated that the acid from a rabbits stomach can come up into their nose. She believes that is why her nose got so bad in the car ride to the vets. That there was so much that it was on her chest area. She also gave me Metoclopramine to give her next time I bring her in.

The Little Bunny did seem a little better on the ride home and when we got home there was no new discharge. I was lucky the vet cleaned her up good so I can tell. This is what the vet said about the acid "Green tinge to discharge, motion sickness-concern over gastroesophageal reflux contributing to nasal discharge during car die"

I am hoping someone has some experience with some of this or the meds I have been given. I trust my vet but have been given wrong info and drugs so many times that I feel better knowing that someone else has used them. I don't know if I am going to give the Sulcrafate. Little Bunny seems fine and is eating since being home. If I give it to her she will be getting meds 3 times a day as I can't give it at the same time as the antibiotic. I give one does of antibiotic a day and thought of giving the Sulcrafate in the morning and skipping the second dose and giving the antibiotic at night.

I appreciate at any advice or experience anyone has with any of these problems or meds.

Thanks Amy

 

[Maureen Las]

Azithrommycin (zithromax is a great drug for bordatella) if you weigh her and look at the medirabbit chart you can determine whether she has been dosed properly . According to medirabbit azithromycin should be given 30-50 mg /kg once per day . 1 kg=2.2lb

I don't know why he gave you the metoclopromide which is reglan .

I will quote from kathy Smith / Lucille Moore regarding Sulfacrate as I have never used it myself

"Sulfacrate (Carafate) might also be recommended by some vets (gastric ulcers). It coats the stomach and heals ulcers without disrupting acid metabolism. Sulfacrate requires stomach acid to make a protective gel that covers injured tissues and should be given 30 min before any antacid is given . Sulfacrate should be given regularly to be effective ;;don't miss doss and full protection may take several weeks to achieve"

Sulfalcrate 25 mg /kg q 8- 12 hr
do not give in conjunction with cimetidine, tetracycline, phenytoin, digoxin

caution : may interfere with other drugs taken orally . "

I would advise you to talk with your vet as to why he ordered both sulfacrate and metoclopromide (esp metoclopromide) . Since I am not a vet there mya be a reason that I am not aware of .
In terms of sulfacrate I personally do not see any reason not to give it . ..but best to discuss your concerns with the vet.

Amy

I know that sometimes azithromycin will decrease appetite and so you need to be aware of this and possibly try to supplement her food some by syringing. This is a good drug and if you can maintain her on it as prescribed it may eradicate the infection.

 

[Amy27]

Angieluv,
Thanks for the dosing on the Zithromx. Her dosing seems to be correct.

Let me see if I can explain the Metoclopramide better. I don't have to give that to the Little Bunny until I take her to the vet again. I am suppose to give her a dose 30 mintues before leaving for the vet. The vet thinks she has motion sickness and this will help her on the car ride to the vet.

The Sulcrafate I am suppose to start tomorrow for 4-5 days to help if she had and esophagus irritation from what the vet thinks was motion sickness today with some acid from her stomach coming up and possibly irritating her esophagus. I should probably just give it to her. The vet won't be in until Monday for me to ask.

Thanks for giving me a heads up that Zithromax can cause stomach issues. I don't have anything on hand so I am glad you said that. I will have to get something tomorrow if the stores are open. I have looked for BeneBac and haven't been able to find it.

 

[Maureen Las]

It doesn't cause stomach issues (although a probiotic is a good idea); it just causes the bunny to not be as hungry (sometimes)
remember that you can use the stuff from farm stores called Probios . I actually bought some today for my own rabbits

 

[Flashy]

Metaclopromide is an anti sickness drug in people, I wonder if somehow that was why she prescribed it?

The only time I've had a rabbit get disorientated in the car was Tilly, who has head tilt. She doesn't struggle like Little Bunny did but she is very clearly disorientated. Might just be worth watching to see if anything develops that could be related to disorientation in a rabbit, although the zithromax should help fight against anything potentially there.

 

[Maureen Las]

AWWW now I understand the metoclopromide.

Metoclopromide is an antimemetic and is for use in nausea and vomiting but it is not often prescribed for rabbits for this reason

Metoclopromide (reglan) and cisapride (propulsive) are also the 2 gut stimulants that Randy feels should not be used for gut motility issues. (ex stasis)
I would ask your vet about it as it is being prescribed for a disorder other than stasis and may help her.

Ihave never know of it being used in a bun for anything other than stasis and therefore cannot comment much on it's use for her.

How is little Bunny?

 

[Amy27]

Sorry angieluv, I don't think I described it correctly when I first posted.

I didn't realize the metoclopromide was a gut stimulant. I would think that would make her stomach feel worse not better.

Little Bunny is acting fine and running around but she isn't eating. I got her to take a couple bites of a carrot and that is it.

 

[Amy27]

I just read BethM's thread as I remembered she went through this recently with Nick. I got some ideas of some things to syringe from her thread.

I notice that a lot of people syringe the pellets they are feeding. The Little Bunny hasn't had pellets in years but I thought of picking some up from the store. Do you think it would bother her to eat them as long as I gave them in moderation since she isn't use to having them? I am trying to think of things I can get her to eat on her own with.

I tried to give her a treat and she took it and stood there and looked at me with it hanging in her mouth. She finally took a few bites and then went and laid down. Does the loss of appetite usually last the whole time they are on the antibiotic or just the first few days?

 

[Maureen Las]

sometimes for only a few days ; sometimes longer.

Tellme what her normal diet consists of

 

[Amy27]

Normally she gets greens-green leaf lettuce, cilantro, red leaf lettuce, endive,and dandilions when I can find them. She use to get parsley but it is high in calcuim so I stopped giving that. I did pick up some at the store today to see if she would eat that. She also gets unlimited Timothy hay. She loves hay but is very very picky.

When I got home from the store she ate a treat and a few pieces of hay. But when she eats it is almost like she forgets she is eating or falls asleep. She will take the hay, eat one bite and then let it fall out of her mouth and she won't pick it up. I am having to hand feed her. I also got her to eat a few bites of carrot. I was dipping the carrot in water between her bites to try and get fluids in her.

I left for the store 4 hours ago and cleaned her cage before I left. She hasn't gone to the bathroom at all.

I also got some grass and a small bag of pellets. I went to 7 different pet stores and none of them had Benebac. I did find Nutrical. I do have a probiotic by Peter's Pets. I also got Pedialyte and canned pumpkin.

Thank you for your help. She is really making me nervous because I am not sure at what point to get concerned or what to give her. I have a good blender so I can blend up greens and give her in a syringe with water.

 

[Maureen Las]

I would be sort sort of concerned about starting her out on a lot of pellets when sheis not used to it but a little to start would be OK. it would be Ok to whip up and syringe greens but if you can fed by hand probably better.
i would try to give her greens and and maybe syringe feed her some pedialyte today ; don't go heavy on trying to force feed her today but be sure to get fluids in her
I have heard that when bacteria is dying off that the bun will lose his appetite for maybe 3 days on an antibiotic and then when he is feeling better will start eating better.

Now with zithromax it could be either case. I have heard of people who needed to take the bun off it because of appetite reduction so thatshould not be excluded but it is too early to tell

I had Babette on zithromax and her appetite was reduced but her dosage was too low anyway so I kept her on it

Babette did 100% better on bicillin injections for her respiratory;; totally wiped it out

I don't know how your vet feels about you giving the bicillin in her case as Babette did not have a C&S done as they would have had to put her under anesthesaa and her breathing was difficult.

In any case

try to hang in their with this for at least 2-3 days to give it a try.

Are her respiratory symtoms any better?

Ireally feel bad for you Amy..so much going on at once. I have been there and I totally undertand the physical and emotional drain this is on a person.
"Hugs
Maureen

 

[Maureen Las]

peter's probiotic is probably fine....

Nutrical is also fine but just a little

 

[Amy27]

The only respiratory symptom she had was yellow nasal discharge. No coughing or sneezing. I haven't seen any discharge today and the fur around her nose isn't yellow.

I syringed her 3ml of 50% pedialyte and 50% water. Am I suppose to dilute it? Should I strive for a certain amount of fluids to get into her a day?

This might sound weird, but I can tell by looking at the Little Bunny that she isn't feeling well. Just the way her eyes look. Before starting the antibiotic she was acting, eating and drinking fine. I feel bad, I know she has to have it though.

I am going to hang with it atleast until Monday when her vet comes in. By then she will have had 3 doses. I just feel like I am making her sicker by giving her this.

I decided not to give the Sulcrafate. The vet told me it will stop or slow down absorption so not to give it when giving the antibiotic or the antibiotic won't be absorb into her system. With her not eating or drinking I don't want to stop what she is getting from being absorbed. I will call the vet on Monday and tell her this. If she still wants me to do it with a good reason I will start the med then.

Would you give the probiotic and/or nutrical now or wait a few days?

Thank you so much angieluv. If it wasn't for your help getting me through this, I would have called the ER vet by now and I am sure they would have made me bring her in and they are not as rabbit savvy as her regular vet.

 

[Amy27]

The Little Bunny finally pooped but it is all mushy and stuck together.

 

[Maureen Las]

I would give her the probiotic.

and I would also talk to him(vet) about her tomorrow

I know that Beau gets drugged up looking on bicillin although it doesn't affect his GI system

babette lost some weight on zithromax but like I said she didn't have a full dose ;

How much does little bunnyshe weigh and how many mg are you giving ?

you need to give the probiotic in between the doses of antibiotic

if you are giving the zithromax at ( ex 9am then wait about 6 hrs to give the probiotic)

i would hold off on the nutrical because it could be too rich for her right now

 

[Maureen Las]

As I recall Babette had some mushy poops also probably from the zithromax(azithromycin)

 

[JadeIcing]

Flashy wrote:

The only time I've had a rabbit get disorientated in the car was Tilly, who has head tilt. She doesn't struggle like Little Bunny did but she is very clearly disorientated. Might just be worth watching to see if anything develops that could be related to disorientation in a rabbit, although the zithromax should help fight against anything potentially there.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Both Ringo and Gabriel do horribly during car rides.

 

[Amy27]

I am glad to know your buns had some of the same reaction to antibiotics.

I can't get ahold of my vet until Monday. I tried calling the ER line to see if I could talk to her but the only advice they offered is to stop the meds which I really don't want to do. If the vet wants me to stick with it, I want to. They said they would leave a message and have the vet call me first thing Monday.

Little Bunny weighs 4.6 lbs and she is getting .25ml once a day for two weeks. The Zithromycin is 250mg/ml.

I will give the probiotic tomorrow since Little Bunny just got her antibiotic an hour ago.

Thanks again Angieluv.

 

[Amy27]

JadeIcing wrote:

Flashy wrote:

The only time I've had a rabbit get disorientated in the car was Tilly, who has head tilt. She doesn't struggle like Little Bunny did but she is very clearly disorientated. Might just be worth watching to see if anything develops that could be related to disorientation in a rabbit, although the zithromax should help fight against anything potentially there.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Both Ringo and Gabriel do horribly during car rides.

Ali, Do you mind telling me what yours do or how they act? I guess I am comparing Little Bunny to Chase because they are the only two I have/had. Maybe Chase just does good during car rides and Little Bunny is normal.

I also think the Bordetella may be contributing to the rough car rides,as the last two car rides have been way worse. I mentioned that to the vet. But I think she was concerned because so much stuff came out of her nose during the car ride. Which is why the vet said she thought what was coming out of her nose was acid from her stomach and then gave her the Reglan.

 

[Maureen Las]

The dosage of the azithromycin is not even on the higher end but like I said some buns really lose their appetites.
you could bring up Bicillin or Convenia (which Tracy can fill you in on from personal experience) if the azithromycin just doesn't work out.....