My bunny may have kidney problems

[Bobminda]

My bunny (BOB) may have kidney problems the vet said today and will be testing him next week. he has been drinking a little more than normal but has had 5 major dental ops, which the vet didnt seems to help.



What can i do ????

Im really up set as the vet said she may have to put her to sleep !!

Bob seems fine but is losing weight in the last 3 visits to the vets !!

Please help

 

[Flashy]

Welcome to the forum.

Try not to panic, although that can be easier said that done. With paliative care a bunny with renal failure can live a decent life.

What are the symptoms that he has? What tests has he had so far?

When did he have his last dental?

This thread will probably get mved to the Infirmary at some point because it's a medical issue, so if you can't find it in here, then it's in there

 

[JadeIcing]

I am going to move this to the infirmary.

 

[Becca]

Welcome to the forum, soon a MOD will move this to the infirmary becuase you will get more replies there. Good luck x

 

[Becca]

LOL We all posted at the same time!!

 

[Bobminda]

Flashy wrote:

Welcome to the forum.

Try not to panic, although that can be easier said that done. With paliative care a bunny with renal failure can live a decent life.

What are the symptoms that he has? What tests has he had so far?

When did he have his last dental?

This thread will probably get mved to the Infirmary at some point because it's a medical issue, so if you can't find it in here, then it's in there

Many thanks,

He is drinking a little but nothing major, his last dental was about 4 months ago, He hasnt had any tests as yet, but the vet did warn me she may have to put him to sleep. Can i do anything to help his diet ?

 

[Flashy]

Is your vet rabbit savvy? To me, that seems all a bit illogical.

Can you tell us more about his diet?

Also, what kind of dental treatment does your bun have? Have his teeth been checked recently? How is he in himself?

 

[tonyshuman]

I think the first think you want to do is have the vet take a blood sample and run a panel of tests on it. There are several tests they can do to see how well the kidneys are working.

A couple of questions to help us out:
-Why do you think that his kidneys are failing?
-Does he have increased/decreased urine output, pain passing urine, chalky urine, or some other symptom?
-Are his hind legs working correctly?
-How old is he?
-What is the vet and how confident are you in his bunny-savvy-ness?
-Where are you (or at least a nearby large city)? (so we can recommend another vet if needed)
-What are you feeding him?

Thanks

 

[Bobminda]

Flashy wrote:

Is your vet rabbit savvy? To me, that seems all a bit illogical.

Can you tell us more about his diet?

Also, what kind of dental treatment does your bun have? Have his teeth been checked recently? How is he in himself?

Sorry whats savvy ??

His diet is sliced apple and a large cabbage leaf in the morning, then mashed science pellets when im home from work.

They were checked again today and need the front clipped, he has no current meds and seems happy !

any ideas ?

 

[Bobminda]

tonyshuman wrote:

I think the first think you want to do is have the vet take a blood sample and run a panel of tests on it. There are several tests they can do to see how well the kidneys are working.

A couple of questions to help us out:
-Why do you think that his kidneys are failing?
-Does he have increased/decreased urine output, pain passing urine, chalky urine, or some other symptom?
-Are his hind legs working correctly?
-How old is he?
-What is the vet and how confident are you in his bunny-savvy-ness?
-Where are you (or at least a nearby large city)? (so we can recommend another vet if needed)
-What are you feeding him?

Thanks

My answers

The vet said he may have and will be doing tests next week,he has no pain passed urine and the urine seems normal enough, his legs are working ok (he just jumped up on my sofa with me) he is 5yrs old, sorry whats savvy ness ?, I'm in tiptree, essex (uk), he has mashed science pellets (Due to lack of teeth)

 

[Flashy]

Hey, you're reasonably close to me! I live near Colchester.

It sounds, to be honest, like your vet is not too knowledgable on rabbits (rabbit savvy, means very knowledgeable on rabbits).

I think it's important that you remember that you choose if and when your bun is put to sleep. You are in control, and the vet can't do anything unless you say. You can decide based on his quality of life and if he can get pleasure from it. It sounds, right now, like he is getting pleasure, which is the most important thing.

I have a very good vet, he is based in Ipswich though, maybe if you can't find a good one round your area, and you are desperate, that might be worth a shot?

 

[naturestee]

Hi, welcome to the forum!

Could you maybe start from the beginning? Let us know what Bob's first symptoms were and how the vet treated them and what's happened between the start and now. The more infoyou can give, the more we'll be able to understand what's going on and hopefully find you some more help. Medication names are important too.

Also, have you ever brought Bob to a different vet for a second opinion? That's usually my first thought when a vet starts talking about euthanasia (unless it's something obvious likea horrific wound, etc). Sometimesa second vet will catch something the first vet missed or didn't think was important. I also know one of my two primary vets always thinks in terms of the worst case scenario and the other always thinks "Well, lets give him a chance and try x y z treatments, then try a b c if that doesn't work."

 

[Bobminda]

Flashy wrote:

Hey, you're reasonably close to me! I live near Colchester.

It sounds, to be honest, like your vet is not too knowledgable on rabbits (rabbit savvy, means very knowledgeable on rabbits).

I think it's important that you remember that you choose if and when your bun is put to sleep. You are in control, and the vet can't do anything unless you say. You can decide based on his quality of life and if he can get pleasure from it. It sounds, right now, like he is getting pleasure, which is the most important thing.

I have a very good vet, he is based in Ipswich though, maybe if you can't find a good one round your area, and you are desperate, that might be worth a shot?

Oh WOW, It's a small world !

Ok rabbit savvy (Now i feel a bit silly !)

the vet i saw today isnt what THEY call the rabbit expert but I'll just have to wait till they do these test and if they do come back with this kidney problem do you know what the effect may be ? as he seems very happy at the mo ! im told that all the anasthethic causes this problem.

Thanks for your help,

p.s he weighs 2.3kgs and was 3kgs 3 months ago

 

[Bobminda]

naturestee wrote:

Hi, welcome to the forum!

Could you maybe start from the beginning? Let us know what Bob's first symptoms were and how the vet treated them and what's happened between the start and now. The more infoyou can give, the more we'll be able to understand what's going on and hopefully find you some more help. Medication names are important too.

Also, have you ever brought Bob to a different vet for a second opinion? That's usually my first thought when a vet starts talking about euthanasia (unless it's something obvious likea horrific wound, etc). Sometimesa second vet will catch something the first vet missed or didn't think was important. I also know one of my two primary vets always thinks in terms of the worst case scenario and the other always thinks "Well, lets give him a chance and try x y z treatments, then try a b c if that doesn't work."

Hi,

The first symtoms are the drinking however he is not on any meds (as yet). I may go for a 2nd opinion after i get the results back from the urine test he will be having next week. (He has had 5 dental ops, and only has 1 or 2 teeth left)

many thanks for your help

 

[Flashy]

I also agree that a blood test is worthwhile too.

How are his teeth currently? Is it possible he has been losing weight due to his dental problems?

 

[Bobminda]

Flashy wrote:

I also agree that a blood test is worthwhile too.

How are his teeth currently? Is it possible he has been losing weight due to his dental problems?

What will the blood test show ?

Vet said today that the front need clipping and butthey may not op on the back teeth as it may increase the possible kidney problem.

he seems to be eating ok (takes longer to munch then my other 2 buns) but it may be the teeth your right.

 

[naturestee]

Ok, so the dental stuff has been going on for a while? I'd wonder if that's the cause of the weight loss too. He may need to be encouraged to eat more. Maybe more veggies since you can't let the mushed up pellets sit out too long, and shred the veggies for him so they're easier to eat. There are a lot of different veggies that rabbits can eat like leaf lettuce (iceberg has no nutrients), parsley, cilantro, dandelion greens, kale, etc. There's a lot of info on feeding veggies here:
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=13618&forum_id=17

I'd be very leery of any vet that starts talking about euthanasia before any test results are back. It could be anything. I'm not sure what all a urinalysis will show you aside from whether there is a kidney/uterine infection. My vet typically does blood tests to check on how well the kidneys and liver are working and will usually do a full blood panel (lots more info) if they're not sure what is causing the symptoms and want to check more possibilities.

I'd also have his fecals tested for parasites. It's possible there's something there that you can't see. Intestinal parasites could literally be stealing his food from him- from the inside. Again, this would be a simple, commonly done test and all you should really have to do is bring in a sample of fresh poops.

Frankly I'd be looking at the teeth as the primary culprits. If he hardly has any molars left as you say, it might be better for him to just remove those last teeth. Maybe they're causing more trouble than they're worth? JadeIcing has a bun without a single tooth in his mouth and he's doing great.

 

[tonyshuman]

Yeah, it doesn't make sense to diagnose kidney problems w/o blood work results in. Thanks for answering those questions. As a late-middle-aged bun, it is possible that kidneys are getting stressed, but he may still have years ahead of him (going on an 8-10 yr life span). It's good that his legs are fine--there's a parasite that attacks the kidneys and hind leg mobility first so we know he doesn't have that.

I agree that if his teeth are causing him pain, they may be doing more harm that good. However, you should be very careful putting a bunny with suspected kidney problems under anesthesia. Plus, feeding him pellet slurry for a little while while he heals is fine.

Is the pellet Supreme Science Selective? That's an ok pellet, but I might be concerned about the calcium content. In our Library article on pellets it says that that brand has 4% calcium, which is very high. I think that could stress kidneys if it's the correct number.

It is probably good to get him some veggies like romaine and dandelion leaves (if you can).

I just don't see kidney disease as a reason for a bunny to be losing weight and drinking more. There are a lot more common things that could cause it, such as parasites or tooth pain like naturestee said.

One thing that might be important is that a lot of the pain meds they give post-op can be pretty hard on the kidneys, so don't wait too long for a blood test. That will tell you the blood levels of many minerals and metabolites, like calcium, and if some of these things they can test for in the blood are out of range, it would mean kidney or liver problems. I can't interpret blood test results myself or tell you what they typically test for, but it's a pretty common practice (even in other animals and people) to test liver and kidney function with a panel of blood tests.

 

[Bobminda]

Thanks to you all for your help and comments,

Could you please give me a link to this libary as im new im having a few problems finding it.

I may look at changing the pellets if you say they are high in calcium



thanks again





Ill up dated you all soon



Tash

 

[Maureen Las]

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12052&forum_id=10
here is a link from the library on urinary problems

in order to find the library click on home (rabbits Online Forum)
and then scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page where there will be a forum called LibraryRabbit health (read only)

This is a collection of articles on many health issues with rabbits ..
each link will open up into numbers of articles.