Mushy Poo/Papaya?

[ams1786]

So I've thought I had this problem before but now I DEFINITELY have it - mushy poo. A few days ago I noticed a giant squishy dropping in the litter box. Later that day I found a cecal on the floor. I didn't think too much of it since we've had isolated incidents before and they always proved to be onetime things. Today, however, when I went to put her away I found several formed/half-formed cecals scattered around - eww.

There were no normal droppings outside her litter box so I don't think she's having problems controlling herself. They were in the areas where she usually grooms herself, so either she's not eating any for some reason or she's overproducing. I did go so far as to "offer" her one, which I've read you're supposed to do, but she was not interested. I'm really trying to figure out what it is, as this is the first real such problem we've had.

I did start her on Bok Choy a few days ago, and I'll certainly try stopping that as it's been the only change in her meals. I don't think she's overweight enough for this to be a problem, and she eats well - roughly 3/4 cups plain pellets per day (she's 6.5 lbs) and unlimited oat hay (the only kind she'll eat). I haven't noticed any changes in her behavior or eating habits - her intake has maybe reduced VERY slightly, but that's corresponded with the sudden warm weather we've been having.

I did have an idea though, and I'd love to hear if anyone has heard of this. For the past week I've been giving her Oxbow papaya tablets, 1-2 per day as recommended, because she's going through her first molt and is NOT a fan of sitting still for brushing and I thought that would help keep things moving. Is it possible that the enzymes in those are just causing her to have too much good bacteria so she's overproducing cecals and just knows she's not supposed to eat anymore? I've heard so many people say these tablets are useless but she's a rex and I think more sensitive than most. Too much bacteria might also explained the weird misformed ones. I was worried this could be a hair blockage or something, but she's also been producing normal round pellets as well and from what I've read those usually stop when there's an issue.

Sorry for the long post, but I'd really love any ideas. Def want to get to the bottom of this - thank you if you got this far!

 

[Geoff]

A few comments: 1) NOT a fan of papaya in any form for rabbits and there seems to be few, if any reasons to give this product. It certainly could cause soft stools as well, though there are several things in this bunny's history you provided that could be a problem.

2) 3/4 cup of pellets is WAY more than I would recommend for any bunny. I personally recommend NO pellets, but that is a controversial subject so I will not push much harder than just 'recommend'. You did not mention what the pellets are made of, either... if alfalfa, that is a LOT of calories most rabbits do not need, and the fiber length is all wrong. That alone could lead to mushy stools, though I think that is probably not the cause of your rabbit's stool problems in this situation.

3) I am also NOT a fan of oat hay.. .though the hay itself is an excellent diet for rabbits, the associated oats in most oat hays is NOT.. Oats are very starchy foods and known to cause GI stasis and intestinal upset in rabbits (though that does not mean they will, just that they can). They are also quite calorie rich. You can get 'early cutting' oat hay (I think Oxbow sells some) that has not actual oats on the hay yet and this is an excellent bunny food. Same goes for wheat and barely hays. I much prefer true grass hays to these 'cereal' hays.

4) Newly added fresh greens will often cause temporary soft stools, but this situation is almost always temporary (not always... some rabbits simply do not tolerate some leafy greens, particularly ones in the cabbage family). I think ALL rabbits should get leafy greens, and if your are starting a new one, be ready for some looser stools (soft, NOT runny... runny stools are always a bad thing in rabbits) for 1-3 days at the most.

5). My guess is this bunny is a bit overweight. I apologize if I am wrong, but bunnies eating that many pellets and oat hay are usually a bit on the heavy side, unless they are 'free roaming' out door bunnies. Overweight rabbits often have a difficult time cleaning themselves off and eating their night feces (just can't get around into the right position) and the result will be a messy rump and/or gooey stools in their enclosure.

Anyway, those are some possible causes of what may be going on with your rabbit.

 

[ams1786]

Hi Geoff - thanks for your reply. A few things. First, I agree with you about limiting pellets though from what I've heard 3/4 cup for a rabbit her size is fine (unless you thought I meant 3-4 cups bc of the plural?). She has had a problem with weight awhile ago - she was what our vet (rabbit savvy) described as "chunky," though not actually overweight. She was on a diet for several months with 1/4-1/2 cup pellets per day but after her spay she lost quite a bit of weight and the vet said to increase her pellets a bit. She's been at that level for several months now and is definitely not as chubby as she used to be - she looks to be in the normal range, to me at least. If she were fine bending over when she was fat I'd be surprised if she were having problems now - unless it could be something else hurting her movement?

Second, with the oat hay, we've had quite a few problems there. She absolutely refuses to eat hay - her spay was actually postponed for several months because the vet wouldn't take her until she was eating hay readily. We have tried every possible type of hay - timothy, orchard, etc., even alfalfa, and from different brands - and she won't even touch it. She loves the oat hay though, and we use Oxbow and it's mostly stalk. The vet said in her case that any hay was better than no hay and she's been on it for months with no problem.

Thanks for your response about the papaya, though. I will most definitely stop giving it to her - I had doubts about its effectiveness but I'm training her and need treat rewards and thought that would be better than a raisin. As a vet, do you know if it's possible for her to have "too much" good bacteria? I really don't think she has a weight problem, having seen what she looks like chubby, unless it's possible something else is causing her to avoid them.

Thanks a ton - really appreciate it.

 

[JBun]

Good bacteria isn't going to cause mushy poop with rabbits. The problem is usually too many carbs and sugars in a rabbits diet, but new foods can also cause it. Sometimes bacteria/parasites can also start to cause problems and be a cause of mushy poop, in which case a fecal test will need to be done and the appropriate meds given.

I would suggest stopping the bok choy, if you haven't already, and see if that clears it up. You may also want to reduce pellets to half a cup a day. The HRS recommends 1/4-1/2 cup pellets a day, per 6 lb of body weight, as long as your rabbit can maintain a healthy weight on that amount, if it can't and is starting to get too skinny, then of course you would need to give a little more. But for now, reducing pellets may help clear up the mushy poop, and also reducing pellets helps a rabbit eat more hay, which will also help clear up the mushy poop if it is diet related. If after you've changed the diet, the mushy poops continue, you may want to get the fecal test done, just to make sure it isn't something like coccidiosis causing the soft poop.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

 

[tonyshuman]

3/4c is a lot of pellets. It sounds like one instance of true mushy poop (fecals) and many instances of uneaten cecals. This would probably be dietary, but sometimes if a bunny has coccidiosis or something similar they will have the mushy fecals and uneaten cecals (they can tell there's something wrong with the cecals so they don't eat them). If reducing pellets (gradually--down to 1/2c over a week, then maybe down to 1/4c over another week or two) doesn't help, you may want to have a fecal test done. I feed my 3-4lb bunnies about a tablespoon of pellets daily (along with 2c greens).

 

[ams1786]

Thanks all. She was up to 3/4 pellets because she lost a bit of weight after her spay but she's put some back on. I cut all veggies out and reduced her pellets and she's evened out after a messy few days here and there. I don't think I yet have cause to take her to the vet, as it's sporadic, but I'm planning to switch her to an adult feed in the next few weeks and will cut down the pellet amount as I do so - I think the problem might be she's still on an alfalfa-based pellet.

 

[PaGal]

You said you were using the papaya as a treat thinking it would be a better treat than raisins. If she likes her pellets then you could try using those as treats, just hold back some from her normal feedings and use them as a treat in place of fruit or the papaya tablets.