Mucous in fecals (again)...

[Jenk]

Zoe ate a hay-only diet for nearly six months before I again (slowly) re-introduced pellets (Oxbow BB/T) and greens (Italian parsley) to her diet. She's only getting 1.5 tsp. of pellets (yes, tsp.) and maybe 1/8 C. of parsley. And still her gut seems to be flim-flamming as a result.

The last two days, she's passed some very large fecals at times (large in comparison to her abnormally-large ones). Tonight, I found a small blob of mucous between two slick-looking fecals.

At this point, I don't know what to do for her. Hay alone seems to prevent her gut from getting upset. Should I keep pushing the pellets and herbs? Is it time to call the vet even?

Thank you,

Jenk

 

[Maureen Las]

I cannot remember if she can tolerate benebac. if she canI would give her a dose; I would not stop the veggies and pellets despite the mucous.

Nice to see you Jen

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

Jenk wrote:

Zoe ate a hay-only diet for nearly six months before I again (slowly) re-introduced pellets (Oxbow BB/T) and greens (Italian parsley) to her diet. She's only getting 1.5 tsp. of pellets (yes, tsp.) and maybe 1/8 C. of parsley. And still her gut seems to be flim-flamming as a result.

The last two days, she's passed some very large fecals at times (large in comparison to her abnormally-large ones). Tonight, I found a small blob of mucous between two slick-looking fecals.

At this point, I don't know what to do for her. Hay alone seems to prevent her gut from getting upset. Should I keep pushing the pellets and herbs? Is it time to call the vet even?

Thank you,

Jenk

did you by chance,,monitor her weight,,??-is she now underweight.??.i am a poopologist and though it does seem correct to get the largest day poop possible,,-a strickly hay diet for that long is not advised,,please start monitoring her weight as you are now offering pellets and she may recover with the vitamins and boost in nutrition,,-however greens might not agree with her at this time(sensitive gut)-if the night poops-(cecotropes)-are mushy-too.//.the delicate balanced ecosystem of the gitract probably was unbalanced for quite awhile(cecal dysbiosis)-,,indicated ifshe eats day poops as well as night poops(cecotropes).--here is an excellent website for great insight to the mystery of rabbit poop http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html --sincerely james waller:wave::rose:

 

[Jenk]

angieluv wrote:

I cannot remember if she can tolerate benebac. if she canI would give her a dose; I would not stop the veggies and pellets despite the mucous.

I'm always leery about even giving probiotics; it's just so easy to throw off her system, even in the "positive" gut-flora direction. For all I know, the mucous was only caused by irritation from passing some large "boulders" over the last few days.

My pets' vet no longer uses Bene-Bac but recommends Probi, which I do have on hand. It's supposed to contain prebiotics, as well as probiotics. I could give her some of it, but I'll call to ask the vet how long she thinks I should administer it. (I recall a former EB member/vet telling me that giving a probiotic any longer than seven days is pointless. *shrug*)

Nice to see you Jen

Thanks, Maureen. It's nice to "see" you, too. :biggrin2:

 

[Jenk]

Update: Zoe's now having anal leakage issues; this morning, I found quite a few stains on the blankets in her pen.

I have a call into the vet to see if she thinks that Probi is the way to go (and for how long to administer it). Now I need to call back to let her know about the leakage issue.

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

Jenk wrote:

Update: Zoe's now having anal leakage issues; this morning, I found quite a few stains on the blankets in her pen.

I have a call into the vet to see if she thinks that Probi is the way to go (and for how long to administer it). Now I need to call back to let her know about the leakage issue.

do you mean like diarrhea.??,or wetness from the other side,,which is where i would think it came from.//.have her habits/behavior changed??anything different is always worth a follow up,,i think you have a handle on the poop part /mucous...sincerely james waller:wave::rose:

 

[tonyshuman]

A bit of mucus can be normal, especially with mega-colon bunnies. I would guess that once in a while it would pass without indicating other problems. however, since it appears that she's got the diarrhea/leakage, it's a bout of something. It should be good to use the probiotic and I would remove the veggies for now.

My question now is if she can handle just pellets and hay. Perhaps veggies just don't agree with her.

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

A bit of mucus can be normal, especially with mega-colon bunnies. I would guess that once in a while it would pass without indicating other problems. however, since it appears that she's got the diarrhea/leakage, it's a bout of something. It should be good to use the probiotic and I would remove the veggies for now.

At this point, I'm leery of removing anything from her diet. (I've already done so many times before, putting her a hay-only diet for months-long stretches.) She's only eating8-10 parsley leaves per day; the hope was to give her just enough of the herb to "pull" a little extra fluid all the way through her digestive tract, which tends to "dry out" no matter what she eats.

My vet's using Probi for rabbits, which she says is gaining a lot of ground in horse circles; that's what I'mgivingour bun in response to herrecentmucous/"leakage" issue.

My question now is if she can handle just pellets and hay. Perhaps veggies just don't agree with her.

Since her gut easily dries out, I worry about feeding her just hay and pellets.

Despite local, rabbit-savvy vets pushing the idea that I feed her a variety of greens, I refuse to give our girl anything about a "snack-sized" portion of herbs (currently just Italian parsley). In the past, gas-/painful episodes seemed to coincide with feeding her even a tiny (quarter-sized) amount of lettuce; I just won't go there anymore in spite of veterinary pressure.

 

[tonyshuman]

OK, I see why you do the greens. Have you tried something like Spring Mix or dandelion leaves? If she only eats them as a snack, the price wouldn't be so bad, and they're very well tolerated in most cases. Parsley's pretty good too, but some variety may help.

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

OK, I see why you do the greens.

Actually, my bunnies' current vet is the one who asked me to feed our girl at least a littleparsley to (in her own words) "pull more fluid" through the digestive tract.

Forall I know, the parsley could be causing her current gut upset, as could the pellets. As I've said before, her gut lasts the longest without problems when she eats a hay-only diet. Sad, but true.

Have you tried something like Spring Mix or dandelion leaves? If she only eats them as a snack, the price wouldn't be so bad, and they're very well tolerated in most cases. Parsley's pretty good too, but some variety may help.

Another vet strongly suggested Spring Mix, but it contains lettuce; for that reason, I'm more than hesitant to feed it to her. It's not that I disagree about the strength of variety, but lettuce (even green- and red-leaf) doesn't seem to sit well with her.

I was told by a rabbit-savvy vet that dandelion greens act as a diuretic; I'm leery to feed it to our girl, lest it cause her to urinate more fluid (that could really stand to pass through her colon).

 

[tonyshuman]

It's true that they can act as a diruetic. I don't know to what extent, though. It's fine if she eats a hay-only diet, I think. I would try something else to get more water into her digestive tract--perhaps lactulose or something.

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

It's true that they can act as a diruetic. I don't know to what extent, though.

Our other Mini Rex was fed dandelion greens (along with other greens) for a spell, and her urine output was insane.

It's fine if she eats a hay-only diet, I think.

Oh, that debate has ragedon so much that I'm utterly spent on it. The most rabbit-savvy vet in my area (an exotics-only, holistic practitioner) has stressedto me multiple times that rabbits need more than the micronutrients offered by hay. But thelast time that I brought our girl to him (a few months ago), he did admit that hay comprises what most rabbits eat in the wild.

:?

The other issue with the hay-only diet is that I suspect that our girl doesn't develop cecals (or not enough of them). Of course, the catch is that it doesn't matter, if her gut can't function on greens and/or pellets. It would break my heart (again), if I have to remove her beloved pellets and greens; she loves them so much (and she gets so little of them as it is).

I would try something else to get more water into her digestive tract--perhaps lactulose or something.

I have discussed lactulose with our pets' current vet; I forget the reason given, but she prefers to not use lactulose in rabbits. I do recall her sayingthat it has quite a different effect on, say, cats.

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

Jenk wrote:

tonyshuman wrote:

It's true that they can act as a diruetic. I don't know to what extent, though.

Our other Mini Rex was fed dandelion greens (along with other greens) for a spell, and her urine output was insane.

It's fine if she eats a hay-only diet, I think.

Oh, that debate has ragedon so much that I'm utterly spent on it. The most rabbit-savvy vet in my area (an exotics-only, holistic practitioner) has stressedto me multiple times that rabbits need more than the micronutrients offered by hay. But thelast time that I brought our girl to him (a few months ago), he did admit that hay comprises what most rabbits eat in the wild.

:?

The other issue with the hay-only diet is that I suspect that our girl doesn't develop cecals (or not enough of them). Of course, the catch is that it doesn't matter, if her gut can't function on greens and/or pellets. It would break my heart (again), if I have to remove her beloved pellets and greens; she loves them so much (and she gets so little of them as it is).

I would try something else to get more water into her digestive tract--perhaps lactulose or something.

I have discussed lactulose with our pets' current vet; I forget the reason given, but she prefers to not use lactulose in rabbits. I do recall her sayingthat it has quite a different effect on, say, cats.

my rex,s have sensitive gitracts-any green/means poopy butt.//.why was the rabbit on a hay only diet for 6 months.??-has the dvm performed any tests on the poops or the urine,,that might be key to the problem.//.a couple tablespoons of pellets daily should restore proper levels of bacteria in the gi tract.??.,,i hope this helps sincerely james waller:wave:

 

[tamsin]

Wild rabbits eat mainly grass but also a range of other plants (weeds) that helps them get a full range of vitamins/minerals. So I'd agree hay only isn't ideal. It's difficult when your bun is very sensitive to everything else though!

Any particular reason behind the parsley? I would be tempted to try different fresh foods (in very small quantities) and keep a diary of how she reacts. Some rabbits will be okay with different plants/herbs. I would avoid fruit totally and any root veg and only feed leaves.

My recommendation would be blackberry/raspberry leaves. These are fibrous and good for rabbits with digestion issues. Blackberry leaves are used as a natural treatment for diarrhoea in people.

Have you tried dried herbs/plants? I'm not sure where you'd get them in the US but here you can by dried mixes with things like dandelion, herbs and petals in. She may tolerate those better.

I'd suggest spreading her pellets out into two or more meals too and see if that makes a difference.

 

[tonyshuman]

What Tasmin said about dried veggies remindeed me of something I bought a few weeks ago, hay with dried marigolds (they also had mint) in it, made by kaytee.

 

[Jenk]

tamsin wrote:

Any particular reason behind the parsley? I would be tempted to try different fresh foods (in very small quantities) and keep a diary of how she reacts. Some rabbits will be okay with different plants/herbs. I would avoid fruit totally and any root veg and only feed leaves.

I've been keeping a diary on her for at least 1.5 years now. The crux of the issue is that I'm tired of trying her on something new only to have to take her to the vet as a result. We humans are feeling burned out (emotionally and financially).

My recommendation would be blackberry/raspberry leaves. These are fibrous and good for rabbits with digestion issues. Blackberry leaves are used as a natural treatment for diarrhoea in people.

I have no idea where to get such leaves, especially year round. The leaves aren't attached to the berries that I can buy from my local grocery stores. But I don't really want to give her anything new at this point anyway.

Have you tried dried herbs/plants? I'm not sure where you'd get them in the US but here you can by dried mixes with things like dandelion, herbs and petals in. She may tolerate those better.

Parsley is an herb/plant, which is the main reason why I'm trying her on it (again). Her gut seems to last a little longer when eating herbs, rather than bona-fide vegetables (e.g., lettuce). Anything else seems to send her to the vet that much sooner.

I'm not adverse to trying dried stuff, but, again, it's not something that's simple toobtain. Also, themain point of even feeding her parsley is to help adda little fluid to her intestines/colon. I would think that driedherbsmight dry out her digestive tract allthe more.

I'd suggest spreading her pellets out into two or more meals too and see if that makes a difference.

I've considered that but not bothered to try it. I suppose that's because she gets such a tiny amount of pellets as it is (splitting the amount would be like getting 3/4-1 tsp. per feeding time).

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

What Tasmin said about dried veggies remindeed me of something I bought a few weeks ago, hay with dried marigolds (they also had mint) in it, made by kaytee.

I'm curious: what bag size were you able to buy? (If it was a rather small one, did you see the option of a larger one?) Packaged hay is so horribly overpriced no matter what; at least buying it in a larger quantity saves a little money.

 

[tonyshuman]

It was not the huge bag, more like a 14oz bag. However, at least half of the bag was flower material, so it could be mixed with normal hay to make it last longer.

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

It was not the huge bag, more like a 14oz bag. However, at least half of the bag was flower material, so it could be mixed with normal hay to make it last longer.

I will consider trying it in the near future (likely after the current probiotic course has ended).

BTW, is the Kaytee hay (w/herbs) timothy hay?

 

[tonyshuman]

Yes, it's Timothy, and my bf's picky nethies like it better than Sweet Meadow Farms' first cut Timothy! Little stinkers. My two(who love any hay, as long as it's fresh) also loved it.