Mom not caring for Kits??

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KatieRenee33

KatieRenee33

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Location
, New York, USA
Well My bunny just had her 2nd litter yesterday. She Made a nest and everything for them and I thought everything was going good. Right now she is in a bunny hutch outside, (I put cardboard up against the wire sides where the nest is to block out some wind) I checked them this morning and all were in the nest and moving (I think she had 7...i didnt get to really check b.c i didnt want to touch them). I went back out 5 mins ago and she pulled two out of the nest and they were dead when I found them. One was VERY winkled, so i think dehydration? Is she not feeding them?? Could she have killed these two b.c I may have accidentally touched them??

Her first litter she had last summer and she had 12 of them, all died. I tried to hand raise the last one,kept him alive for 3 days, but he died too.

Anything I should do?!?
 
I think this will get moved to the Rabbitry.

Do the kits have a nest box?

The kits that died, what did they look like? It might be that they just crawled out, or maybe when mum went to feed got pulled out (although they would probably look fed).

How did she do with her other litter? Why was it they died? Did she try and be maternal towards them?

Hopefully a knowledgable breeder will come along soon and help more than I can.
 
I put a cardboard box for in the hutch for her a few weeks ago. She seemed to like it, she would lay in it and stuff. I thought for sure she would have them in there, well she had them right outside of it.I didnt want to move the nest. she had them in a corner, and the next is pretty deep, so she might have pulled them out.

the kits that died, one was really wrinkled, and didnt have a round belly. The other wasnt as wrinkled, but also didnt look round.

Her other litter I thought she wasnt feeding all of them. Some looked rounder then others. But that litter she had them out in her outdoor pen, and they frequently crawled out of the nest. I personally have never seen her go towards the nest, though i know that most of them only go at night. Also she is a year old, could that be why shes not taking care of them?

I really hope some one has some ideas. I'm no breeder, and had no experience with raising kits. We did not plan on her having babies, a male up the road (they let them run loose) and got in her pen...and here we are.
 
It doesn't sound, to me, like she has deliberately thrown them out the nest because they would probably have some sort of marks on them from her moving them. If they don't, then they probably did it themselves.

It would probably be worthwhile moving them into a nest box. It needs to be open at the top, and big enough for her to stand in, and the sides high enough for the babies to not wriggle out. If the cardboard you put in is like that then that's ideal.

You can stroke her, and maybe put a little bit of vanilla essence just above her nose, and then move the kits and the nest into the nest box. That also means you will be able to check all the kits and make sure there is nothing in the nest that there shouldn't be.

They can go 24-48 hours without feeding after birth because it takes a while to get the milk to come in. If she hasn't fed within 36 hours or so then you can help her do that. There are a variety of ways to do this, like putting her in the nest and feeding her treats to help her relax there and that might be enough. Or you can hold her and have someone else hold each of the babies to her in turn. Don't supplement though. It will only take a few minutes for them to feed. When they have been fed they will look like they have swallowed ping pong balls, so that will be a good indicator.

Is she easy to handle?
 
I moved this to the Rabbitry for you.

I would move the nest to the box. Just pick up the entire nest and move it.

I would also check all the babies, and make sure there are no dead babies or placentas in the nest still.

Mom should feed 1 to 2 times a day. Babies will have nice round bellies if they are being fed.

My guess is the babies wandered from the nest looking for mom. This is why a box is good, it prevents them from crawling out of the nest and dieing from exposure.

I'm sure more advise will come your way.

--Dawn
 
I'd also start by putting the kits in a nest box and putting the box in the same spot that momma had them. If she doesn't feed them by tonight, you can try picking her up, placing her in the box, on top of the babies and holding her in place for 5-8 minutes. Hold her head (I put my hand over her head and my fingers around and between her ears) to keep her from turning around and hurting the babies. talk to her and pet her. Keep her calm and relaxed.

I suspect that the two the were outside thenest latched onto her when she jumped in, she panicked (Holy COW! What are those squirmy things in there and where did they come from???!) and jumpedaway and they fell off. Without the warmth of it's siblings,babies can chill pretty fast and die. I'm very sure it nothing to do with you touching them. Do not blame yourself.

Being as this is her second try at motherhood, (and she didn't do very well the first time), have patience and go slow with her. She may not have good maternal instincts. Some can learn, some never make good mothers.

When you put her on top of them, if it looks like the babies are nursing, let them feed for 6-8 minutes. Their little bellies should look plump and round. If it doesn't work within the first 10 minutes, don't stress her. Take her off of them and wait 10-15 minutes. Then try again. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get herto let her milk down.

MOST of the time, once she nurses them 3-4 times, she will start to feel relief from the pressure of the milk and will do it willingly. But until you see the babies getting fed on their own, you will have to hold her over them twice a day, early morning and late evening. I also will reward the doe with a treat, fresh parsley, dandelion greensor carrot tops... after she nurses the litter. If she is easily distracted and will sit on the babies without you holding her, give them to her while she is nursing. Anything to relax her.

Good luck with the babies. If she doesn't feed them by tomorrow evening, you will have to try and bottle feed them, but that is a last resort... it's very difficult to raise a whole litter on the bottle.

 
Thanks everyone.
Is it ok to use a cardboard box as a stand in nesting box?? Its pretty good size, she can get in and out of it. Also, should I leave the 4 sizes of it, or cut on size down a little to make it easy for her to get into, but not easy for them to get out of?? Should I put more hay in it,and some of the fur she pulled out??

She's Not the easiest to handle, but she will let me hold her, I just dont know about holding her on her back. I will definitely try putting her in the box with them and see how that goes.

I really hope that we can save this litter, unlike the last one :(
 
Yes you can use a cardboard box. I have used a shoe box several times.

You want the sides high enough to keep the babies in, but low enough for mom to hop in and out of.

I would fill the bottom of the box with more hay (or straw) and make a hole or cavity for the old nest to sit in.

You want to keep as much of the original nest as possible during the transfer. However, remove any material that is soiled with blood or urine. Also make sure to check for any dead babies or pieces of placenta.

--Dawn

 
Yes I will be sure to check all the babies before placing the next into the box.

Also another thing, Should I just gloves to handle the babies??
 
You don't need to use gloves. If you are worried about smells, you can rub your hands on mom's fur and poop before handling the babies.

A mother's instinct to care for her babies is normally much stronger than the fear of any funny smells. I have cared for several foster buns with litters who had never met me before. And not one of them even thought twice about my smell on the nest.

--Dawn
 
Ok. Well tonight while i was going the other barn animals, I pet her and talked to her before checking on the kits. She has the nest so deep, and compacted that It would be hard to move it with out taking it all apart. So I took a big box and took one side off and placed it over the nest so it was way in the back. Its big enough for her to go in and turn around and stuff. I checked on the kits, all where moving, nothing in the nest but tons of fur lol. The kits arnt really round, but there bellies arnt sunk in either.

Anything else I should do?? Should I still move the nest??

If they still look like they did tonight, should I try holding her and placing them on her for a few minutes??
 
It would be better to put them under her than to try putting her on her back and putting them on top of her. Yes, I would try if I were you.

The problem with putting the box OVER them is that the babies can still crawl away from the nest and get cold. They need a 3-4 inch lip to prevent them from scattering.
 
I will go out and place a piece of cardboard in the opening so Willow can still get in and out.

Also, Can Checking the nest alot stress her out???? Sorry if im like over analyzing everything lol
 
It really shouldn't stress her that much. She should be used to you being around the cage... but if it looks like she is getting stressed, maybe keep it to only a few times a day.
 
Ok. I really only check to make sure all the babies are inside the nest and see if there still alive and such. Sometimes she actually comes over to the nest and watches me...
 
You can try bribing her (for lack of a better term) by bringing her a treat every time you go to check the babies. That will give her a better feeling about you approaching and she may be distracted enough not to care that you are touching the babies.
 
Well this morning I checked on them and so far so good. All were still alive and in the nest nice and warm. I'm going to take a picture of them and post it on here because I'm wondering if they are round enough.
 
OK, so far, so good. It would be wonderful if she is feeding them!
 
Ok here is a picture of her nest:
Picture265.jpg


And here is what all 5 kits look like as far as there bellies: Are they round enough to know that she is indeed feeding them??
Picture266.jpg
 
Photo would have been better if it was taken with the baby on it's back... tough to see the belly. But the baby doesn't look dehydrated or wrinkled. Actually looks pretty plump. And if the baby was willing to snuggle and sleep in your hand, it probably got fed. Otherwise, it would have been squirming around from the heat of your hand, looking for a nipple to nurse on.

I'd assume the babies are getting fed. Give them a day and check them again. (As long as they stay together inside the nest, they are doing good.)
 
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