Male Juvie Dislikes Getting Caged

[Channahs]

Bun Jovi is a Juvie Boy Bun not quite ready to be neutered (but this is definitely in is future) He lives with my 20 year old disabled son in a 35 foot RV, and he has the sweetest disposition a little boy bun ever could have except...

He dislikes being put into his cage, and he shows his displeasure by biting.

When my son needs to leave for school, work or simply to come inside for dinner or a shower, he has to put Jovi in his cage because, well you all know why...there are all kinds of things for him to get into out there. So he will direct Jovi toward the cage, and so far we've encountered charging, nipping and once he bit my son five times on the hand before he even knew what happened! My son is disabled from a car accident and he's not quite fast enough to react when Jovi acts like this. In spite of this naughty behavior, he never yells or hits, just directs a little more sternly to get him into the cage. We've tried raisin rewards and those worked for a couple of days, but now he'll grab the raisin and run. We've left him in time out in the cage after a bite, and he'll sit with his back to Jovi (that whole resorting to bunny language thing) and it seems that Jovi actually has remorse and he'll behave and go in for a couple of times, but he always resorts to his naughty refusal and biting.

I know without a doubt that this has nothing to do with anything but going into that cage. He just does not want to. Otherwise he's just precious. There's not another thing that will make him act like this.

I'm really hoping that getting him neutered will fix this issue. Any other ideas until then?

 

[JBun]

Neutering can sometimes fix the problem, but not always. There's really no way to know besides having it done and waiting to see the results. There are a few other things that you and your son could try, since timeouts don't seem to be effective. A different variation of the treat approach may work. Your son will always want to feed food and treats in the cage, so that his rabbit associates all food with the cage, and then train his bun with a word command like 'time for treats' to get his bun back to his cage. But this would require some training time to get it to work. Sugary treats do need to be limited, so the rabbits daily pellets can be used as treats, as well as his daily veggies.

Using a broom to kind of direct his bun into the cage may also work so that his rabbit won't have direct contact with his hands. It's just to direct the bun though, and it may not work depending on how cooperative his rabbit decides to be. With some of my rabbits I can just clap my hands loudly and tell them time for treats, and usher them back to their cage. There's also the method that a momma rabbit uses with her babies, by gently holding the head/shoulder area down for a few seconds, but for this to possibly be effective, it needs to be done immediately following a bite, so I don't know if this would work for your son. And it sometimes doesn't work for some rabbits.

I would also suggest your son use thick leather gloves, when he has to handle his bun in these kind of situations. To protect your son, and also so his rabbit doesn't learn that biting generates a reaction.

Another possibility is bunny proofing the RV so that putting him in the cage wouldn't be needed.

 

[curiouscarrot]

Does he only go in the cage when your son is leaving? In addition to having the cage the source of all good things like treats as JBun says, put him in periodically when your son is staying. In, shut the door, treats and talking. Get him used to the idea that it's just something that happens during his day, not just when he's about to be left. Also, don't do it after he's had his shower (or whatever signals that he's going out), but earlier on, at cuddle time or brekkie time or whenever. When you start making your "going out" preparations, putting your stuff together, getting your keys, they notice the signals. Also, when you anticipate problems you go into it tense and that can add to the angst. Do it when you are relaxed and pop him in before you have your shower (or whatever).

 

[Channahs]

Both excellent ideas, and we'll combine the two and give them a go. Thank you! Hopefully we'll have some good to report back. Jovi's pretty spoiled. We wouldn't have him any other way, but he sure has sharp teeth!

 

[Troller]

How big is the cage? My two Flemish have spacious cages and most of the time the problem is getting them out of their cages.

 

[Channahs]

His cage is pretty spacious. It's roughly 3 feet x 2 feet and has a solid floor. Jovi is a Holland Mini Lop so he's not really big. He can stretch out. We'd love to have it larger, but room is an issue in the RV. We use hard wood pellets for litter and he likes to dig in those. He has a feed trough that has a hay rack on the back of it. He has a grass mat that he has pewped and pee'd on, and a cuttle bone to gnaw. He also gets a couple of toys rotated in and out. The door is popped anytime that my son is at home. Everything in the RV is more or less bunny proof, we have a couple of baby gates stretched across the front to keep him out of the captain's area and out from under the dash. However Robs (my son) did catch him chewing the wallpaper the other day (so bad). He's not 100% potty trained, either that or he's scent marking with his little scattered pewps, and we keep the sofa covered with towels (with a puppy pad under those) because he tends to want to pee on it. If we fold a towel up, he will pee only in that one spot on that folded towel. but he does have a litter box outside of the cage that we feed him his hay in, and usually he's outside of his cage for his salads too. His pellets and water bottle however are inside the cage. Most of these issues we can compromise on but for the biting. We recognize that he is still a juvie and we have at least a year of hard core boy bunnitude (and a snippity snip to go) before he mellows.

I think today I will work on making his cage more appealing. My son tends to overcrowd it with that big pie plate that he eats his salad in. Maybe a smaller dish to take up less of his room. We have a second cage of the same size, but this one has a wire floor and a pull out drawer for cleaning. I wonder what he would think about that? And because I couldn't resist, a little photo of Bun Jovi with his guitar.

 

[Channahs]

Well today we had another episode. Jovi was being a real PITAbun. He was sitting next to my son on the sofa and everyone was getting along quietly, Robs on his laptop, buns lying next to him with his front paws out and together. Robbie reached over to stroke him and he reared up and bit him. He didn't break the skin, but it was aggressive. Robbie picked him up and put him in the cage and turned his back on him. How can something so adorable be so rude?! Oh yeah...hormones. The signs are pretty classic. He's leaving little scattered pewps all over the place (scent marking), and I got a look at his tush the other day...whew boy yeah....Anyway after about an hour, Robbie opened the cage door but Jovi said hmmmph and refused to come out. So we made that call. Jovi now has an appointment on July 10th. If everything is as it should be, and he has aged appropriately (and we're pretty sure he has), he'll get neutered that day. We have mixed feelings, feeling so bad to have him altered, but knowing that it's in both his AND our best interest.

Fortunate for us we have a local rabbit savvy vet. Heehee the vet's appointment maker was a little taken aback at all of the questions that I asked before making the appointment, such as how many rabbits has Dr. Beck neutered/spayed and just how experienced she is with rabbits. She passed. Dr. Beck actually keeps pet rabbits, so I feel comfortable taking Jovi to her. This clinic is also where we take our mini-dachshunds and cat so how awesome is that!

 

[curiouscarrot]

Sounds like a plan, but in future, never put him in his cage after he's been "bad". The cage needs to be the source of all things good, never for time-out or punishment (unless it's done in a way that he doesn't now that's what you're doing, ie deal with an incident first and after it's all over he can go in there). It'll contribute to the issues you are having getting him to go in there.

 

[Channahs]

Gotcha. That makes perfect sense, and my son thinks so too. So the suggestion I gave was when he acted this way, to turn his back on him and show his displeasure. And if Jovi were on the sofa when he bites, to make him get off of the sofa, and to make sure to send signals that you are unhappy with him. He's actually been very pleasant about going into his cage today, but that is the way it's been going. One time he'll do really well, and the next time he's refusing. He is starting to expect that treat when he goes in though. It's not much, it might be a single raisin or slice of celery, a rose petal or even a mint leaf. It seems to work like this because he never knows which time he's gonna get that raisin haha!

 

[ams1786]

Forcing him back into the cage is only going to make him hate going back in there even more, and strain the relationship. I had a similar problem. You have to make them want to go in. What I did was set a schedule for meal time so she'd get her pellets (and a little treat on top, like a pinch of oats) at the time each evening when I put her away for the night. I just sort of let her have a bite and see the full bowl and then put it inside her cage until she figured it out. Within three days I had her jumping in there every night when it was food time. Now, if I'm staying up late, she'll actually sit by her cage and wait or head butt me and lead me over to give her her dinner.

 

[Channahs]

You're all right! This weekend we rearranged his cage to include a nest box. He loves his new nest box, and he jumps in just to chin it as his own, we've been feeding him his salad in his cage... but he's confused about where he's supposed to potty. Prior to the rearrangement we used hard wood pellets all over the bottom of the box. He started to show preference of his pee pee where the litter box was placed. Now that we've lined it with paper and placed a litterbox, he knows not where to pee pee.

 

[Azerane]

So you've stopped putting pellets on the whole floor and only just in the litter box? If he's having accidents outside his box, wipe them up with a piece of paper towel and then put that piece of paper towel into the litter box. This will help him to associate the smell of his pee with the litterbox to help him to learn to go there. Do the same with his poops too

Glad to know that he's getting better with his cage though and that he loves his hidey hole

 

[Channahs]

Spoke too soon! The little stinker charged and bit Robs again today. Oh dear that 4 month mark is atrocious. Jovi reminds me of Robs when he turned 14. I feel so sorry for Robbie. All he does is love that bun with all his heart and he gets bit while offering a raisin! Jovi has never bitten me. I do spend a lot of time with him, and I do give him lots of head rubs. I can put him in a trance by putting my thumb and forefinger together and squeezing his head through the circle. It's his favorite massage. He did nip me on the leg/thigh once while I was wearing shorts, but I"m pretty sure that was a love bite. Lately though he has that wild eye'd look about him. It's hormones. Nine more days....nine more days...nine more days....

That's a good idea Azarane. I do need to go into his cage and make sure that it's clean and there's no pee pooled anywhere. The wood pellets are amazing, cheap and so absorbent! It would be a perfect world if we could get him to only pee in his litter box and not on the paper. I'll try the wipe up and putting it in his box.

 

[Channahs]

YES!!! Success! He's now 100% using his corner litterbox (while in his cage). That bag of hardwood pellets is going to go a long, long way. arty:

 

[Azerane]

Congrats

 

[Channahs]

We have figured out why Jovi is charging and biting when my son tries to put her in the cage. He's hitting the floor (thumping) with his hand to call her over when he wants her to cage up. Makes sense right? That's an insult to her. He's telling her that she's a bad rabbit, because as we all know, thumps happen usually when a bun is alerting or irritated. We've been working on this, finding a different way to get her in and since he's stopped thumping the floor, there have been no charges or bites. Also, I plan to build her a two level NIC cage this weekend. When I finish, she will probably never want to come out! :happyrabbit: