Major Hay and Veggie Problems

[wunwun]

I have had Lucy (1 year old spayed female) for almost a year now and we have had major problems in terms of hay. SHE WON'T EAT IT. She does have teeth problems, but now that the vet has grinded down her teeth she still won't touch her hay. She eats her veggies chopped up just fine.
This is her daily diet:
(Morning) 1/4 cup Oxbow Bunny Basic Pellets
(Dinner) Unlimited Veggies (including combinations of: Greenleaf, Romaine, Bak Choy, Brussel Sprout, Parsley and Cilantro.)
Hay is unlimited in her litterbox, hay rack and pellet box.
Here are the Hay tips I have tried
1. Cutting them into small strips. She doesn't need to grind down her teeth (they are misaligned) so I just want it in her for fibre reasons.
2. Different Types of hay. I currently have 4 different types of hay (2 types of bluegrass, 2 types of second cut timothy) and none of which she really cares about.
3. Rubbing smelly treats on hay. I rubbed/mashed banana (her all time favourite treat) onto her hay and all she did was sniff it and lick at it.
4. Placing hay in areas which she frequents most. As noted above, large quantities of hay are placed in her litterbox and pellet box.
5. Taking out all food at night and leaving hay as the only option. Starving Lucy at night ended up developing into GI Stasis on Christmas Day. I AM UNWILLING TO TRY THIS AGAIN.
So now I have a few problems. How do I get my bunny to eat hay? Does anyone know if some bunnies just don't like hay? Will I be able to substitute it with critical care or something? This is a special special situation (especially with the dental problems) so all other research I have found on the net is not very helpful. I have been suggested to grow my own grass and feed that to her which I might try.
Another question is towards veggies. I have been notified that the cabbage-like veggies I have been feeding are too gassy (greenleaf, romaine, bak choy) so I am asking what veggies do you feed your bunny? Veggies need to be cheap (I buy in large amounts because lucy eats large amounts) and practical (carrot tops are not practical as what on earth am I supposed to do with all those carrots?!?!?)

I need help! And you guys have never failed me! I'm so CONFUSED!

 

[okiron]

the only option i could think to share is maybe cut back on the pellet and veggies if going cold turkey doesn't work?

 

[Bo B Bunny]

How much does your rabbit weigh? You might be overfeeding other things.

My mini-rex gets 1/8 cup of Oxbow pellets in the morning and 1/8 cup at night. He gets all the hay he wants and a little treat in the morning for breakfast (a tiny slice of banana, 5 or 10 oat flakes, or something like that) and then something green along the line. I used to feed him a big salad but he got soft poos so that had to end.

 

[wunwun]

Lucy weighs a little over 1kg = 2lbs. I was told by the bunny rescue team that 1/4 cup pellets is good for her since she is underweight for her size. And I got further confirmation from the vet that 1/4 cup is perfectly good.

I would just wish she would eat her dang hay!

 

[Marietta]

Hi!

In regard to safe veggies to feed, please visit our Rabbit Library. Avoid gassy veggies (e.g. cabbage and Brussels sprouts) and veggies high in oxalates (e.g. spinash and kale), toxic veggies should also be kept away. Feed in minimal quantities, only a couple of times per week, veggies high in sugar (such as carrots, tomatoes), veggies high in calcium or fattening veggies. Some veggies can cause diarrhea to some buns -and not to others (e.g. iceberg lettuce). Everything is in the Library section, as I told you, so it's worth checking it out.

Unlimited veggies is not a good idea, generally speeking. Your bun's stomach gets filled with the veggies and then she won't eat the hay, which less tasty. This is understandable (its the same with humans: between a chocolate cake and a lettuce salad, I'd go for the first!). You can feed the pellet quantity twice per day (half of it in the morning and half in the evening) instead of once in the morning.

Also try buying the freshest hay you can get, hay smelling good, having a greenish colour (as opposed to the yellowish, dry material pet stores sell) and try mixing different types of hay, maybe your bun'll like a type better than another.

If you cut down the veggies, especially during evening time, I believe that, eventually, you'll see your bun getting hungry and tasting the hay. In order to make her eat during night time, you could also try to keep her limited in her cage/pen (if she's a free roam bun) for 3-4 days, with unlimited amounts of fresh hay around her, and also put her hay in her litterpan.

Try and experiment with various things like the above and tell us how it goes.

Marietta

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I agree with Marietta.

1/4 cup is fine - that's what I give mine but I split them into 1/8 in the morning and 1/8 at night. During the day they have only hay which they do eat - infact if I feed them late enough they eat ALL of their hay. Clover doesn't like pellets as much as hay actually.

 

[PixieStixxxx]

Anything that can potential give gas, I stay away from.

If she is not eating, maybe you could syringe her some critical care? YThe main ingredient is hay. You can buy those from your vet - but ensure that it's critical care for herbavoires, and that Oxbow Company logo is on it.

Gas is a very bad thing in rabbits =[

 

[aurora369]

Ask at your grocery store if they have any carrot tops, beet tops or celery leaves you can have. I have a little family run grocery store near my house, and they will give me all the carrot tops they have when I come in. Many stores get rid of excellent rabbit veggies because most people don't eat those parts.

We have another Vancouver member who's little diva bun won't eat hay either. Pipp has dental problems as well, molar spurs, but she refuses to eat hay! I believe she gets lots of hard veggies and a wide variety of different veggies.

Where in Vancouver are you? If you don't feel comfortable posting such detailed information, feel free to PM me. I live pretty much in Kerrisdale.

--Dawn

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I didn't know Pipp refuses hay!~!! I do know that Sas feeds her kale and other things that help with the dental stuff.

Diva buns LOL

 

[Hazel-Mom]

If she is healthy, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Sounds to me like she gets all the nutrion and fiber she needs from her veggies. And if she's been eating the kale etc all this time without gass problems, i wouldn't worry about them now, either.
I know lots of people push the hay and discourage the veggies, but like I said, if your bun does well on her current diet, i wouldn't change it.
My Hazel is just the same, she gets unlimited greens and thus eats very little hay, and very little pellets too. She is 5 now, is perfectly healthy, and her vet said she isn't worried about it. She does like to eat dried leaves, of grape vines, mints, basil, and other herbs.
She's never had teeth problems, because the veggies contain enough fibres and silica to grind down her teeth just like hay would, and because she gets a large variety of greens (an average of 10 to 14 different kinds, both vegetableas, herbs and "weeds") and also limited fruits, she gets all the nutrients she needs too.
If you want some more specific information on calcium, oxalates etc. in rabbits, here are some good articles:
http://www.carrotcafe.com/n/calcium.html
This is an exerpt of that article: "For the majority of vegetables, water levels are between 80 and 95% of the total weight of the plant. Many times when calcium levels are being reported, they are reported as a percentage of *dry weight*, which does not take into account the weight of water. So the actual amount of calcium being fed may be much less when you look at what you're actually feeding, not the dry weight of the food. Many vegetables that have significant calcium levels also have significant oxalate levels. Calcium bound to oxalate (called, oddly enough, calcium oxalate) is not readily absorbable by the rabbit. Any calcium that is not absorbed cannot contribute to sludge. Needless to say, I don't pay attention to calcium content in veggies. What I do try and do is rotate veggies frequently to give the bunnies a balanced diet. I do have a list of the calcium content of selected vegetables. If you are interested in oxalate levels of various vegetables I have a chart of that, too. To round out the group, there is also a list of calcium content of selected hays. In general, feeding a "high calcium" veggie is not going to harm your bunny. As always, you want to monitor bunny's output. If feeding one veggie or another consistently results in sandy looking urine, then you may want to decrease the amount you feed, or remove it from their diet entirely."

Another source of information is "Textbook of Rabbit Medicine" By Frances Harcourt-Brown.
You can find this and others through Google book search ( http://books.google.com/ ).

 

[CorkysMom]

I have some that eat a lil hay, but not much, others that act like I'm putting in chocolate and they haven't had it for months when I start to get into the hay tote and they can't get enough...I think just like us they all have different tastes.

You could try spritzing a lil apple juice or something on the hay to see if that would entice her at all!

 

[wunwun]

Hazel-mom thank you so much! It is such a relief to hear from someone else who has the same problem! I have frequented the internet, my local rabbit rescue and the vet and all of them act as if there is something wrong with ME that I can't get Lucy to eat hay.

Lucy is perfectly healthy, she does get some dry grape-like poops here and there and she always seems to be on the borderline of getting pearl strand poops which is why I am resorting to try and get her to eat more hay. I monitor her output like crazy, and am very very afraid of cutting back the veggies or pellets because it is the only fibre she gets.

I am currently trying 4 different kinds of second cut hay and it's driving me absolutely CRAZY. I am willing to try anything at this point and have been advised maybe hay cakes, fresh grass (grown on my own) and hay pellets may work.

Does anyone know what the difference is between cat grass and regular grass? I see them sell it at petstores and am wondering if it is the same thing...

Thanks guys

 

[Hazel-Mom]

wunwun wrote:

Hazel-mom thank you so much! It is such a relief to hear from someone else who has the same problem! I have frequented the internet, my local rabbit rescue and the vet and all of them act as if there is something wrong with ME that I can't get Lucy to eat hay.

Some buns just don't seem to like hay, especially when they haven't been used to it from early on. That was not the case with Hazel, though, she always had access to hay, she just also had access to lots of fresh greens, and she prefers those. Like I said, neither the vet nor us worry too much, afterall, hay is just dried grass that was once fresh, right? So you should be able to get the same nutrients and fibers from fresh as from dry. The only difference is that Hazel drinks very little water, because the greens provide most of the liquid.

Lucy is perfectly healthy, she does get some dry grape-like poops here and there and she always seems to be on the borderline of getting pearl strand poops which is why I am resorting to try and get her to eat more hay. I monitor her output like crazy, and am very very afraid of cutting back the veggies or pellets because it is the only fibre she gets.

Yes, Hazel gets those too from time to time, mostly when shedding. I stopped worying about them, at least it shows that the hair is passing through. She likely does get enough fiber from her greens and veggies, I wouldn't cut anything back because she probably needs the nutrients from the pellets too. Unless she gains weight, ofcourse.


I am currently trying 4 different kinds of second cut hay and it's driving me absolutely CRAZY. I am willing to try anything at this point and have been advised maybe hay cakes, fresh grass (grown on my own) and hay pellets may work.

You could try those, but don't get your hopes up too high. I too have tried all sorts of grass hays, the cubes, and different sorts of hay pellets. She doesn't like them. The only hay she will eat is Alfalfa hay, but she only gets that once in a while because even then she tends to pick out the leafy bits and leave the stems. Talk about picky buns :?.
She does like dried leaves of all (safe) sorts, her favorites are basil (we grow lots in our garden and pick and dry them for winter), mints (same), grape vines (my brother-in-law grows those), willow leaves, apple, blueberry, and some other herbs we grow. I figure that's all extra fiber and nutrients as well . You could try and see whether Lucy likes any of those too.
I do pick lawn grass from time to time, the buns eat that too.

Does anyone know what the difference is between cat grass and regular grass? I see them sell it at petstores and am wondering if it is the same thing...

The "cat grass" sold here is usually "wheat grass", both our buns love it. You can grow it yourself, buy some wheat berries in bulk and sow in pots. You can also just grow grass from seed, in pots or flats.
Thanks guys