Lilly's talking to me?

[angoragrl]

Both of my boys are very quiet bunnies. It doesn't seem that Lilly is though. Last night when I was petting her she was making a very soft grunting sound and then just now, I was brushing her and trying to work out some more of the mattes and I swear she was yelling at me. When I tried to turn her over (this is the one thing I am having problems with) she started making this higher pitched crying noise. . . . I felt so bad for her as I assume that sound is bad. I know I've heard people talk about honking bunnies, but what are the sounds I'm hearing? I'm worried that she is upset or distressed and I don't know what to do about it. . . At some point I have to get to her belly to really get at the mattes, I don't really have a choice on that matter.

 

[TinysMom]

It sounds to me like she's trying to tell you she wants to be the boss and she doesn't want you to mess with her. She's like a little kid - you need to be firm.

She's not in pain I'm guessing - possibly she's even been hurt when she was groomed in the past so she's scared.

I have one bunny that whimpers like a puppy in order to get his way. Once I use my mama voice of "Hepburn...no..you can't have your own way" he still whimpers but not as much.....and he realizes I'm the boss..

Peg

 

[ec]

I can only base my reply on experiences with one bun - so please don't take this as gospel.

Nibbles will cry/whimper very softly whens she's really scared (if I'm having to handle her in ways she doesn't like in order to trim nails, etc.).

She honks, oinks, grunts and grr-honks when she's happy, excited and wants to play.

My guess is that Peg's on target in her thoughts that Lily's possibly had some bad (scary, painful) experiences with grooming, and/or that she's scared that you might hurt her. (Not because of you, but because she's a rabbit and they're hard-wired to perceive restraint of any kind as a threatening, predator-type behavior.) And I'm sure the mats themselves can get very painful, pulling on delicate skin.

You probably already do this, but just in case... if Nibbles is scared or upset, I just talk to her in a low, soothing voice and tell her that everything's going to be OK, I love her, that I won't hurt her, etc. My feeling (after having her with me for close to 2 years) is that bunnies are smarter than we think they are, and that they understand more words than we might guess - which is why I now try to let her know (in words) that I would never knowingly hurt her. I also tell her that I'm sorry that I have to hold her still, but that whatever it is that I'm doing (example: nail clipping) is going to help her - in this case to be able to walk, hop and run better, to groom herself more easily, etc. I also do tell her that it is important for me to help her take care of her feet and nails. The thing that surprises me even now: she seems to understand that I'm trying to help her and is much, much more patient *when I remember to talk with her a bit beforehand and explain what I'm going to do.*

Sometimes I think that I'm just imagining all this... but I definitely *can* see a difference between the times I don't communicate about what I'm going to do, and the times that I do.

I know that Lily is very new to you (and vice versa) and that it takes time to build trust, but you might want to give this a go.

And I'm glad that she is so "talkative" - that can be a lot of fun!

 

[tonyshuman]

It might be that she's just not used to being handled, but she also might be in pain from the mats. Would cutting them out work better? My Muffin had a mat or two behind the ears and I just ended up giving her a little trim because they were NOT going to brush out!!

 

[ec]

:yeahthat: re. mats (painful, trimming them instead of trying to brush them out)...

(I can still remember feeling pain when my mom was trying to gently comb out tangles in my hair - at age 4 or 5! I must have been a mess as far as holding still for her, and would guess that Lily feels the same, but more so. )

 

[angoragrl]

TinysMom wrote:

It sounds to me like she's trying to tell you she wants to be the boss and she doesn't want you to mess with her. She's like a little kid - you need to be firm.

She's not in pain I'm guessing - possibly she's even been hurt when she was groomed in the past so she's scared.

I have one bunny that whimpers like a puppy in order to get his way. Once I use my mama voice of "Hepburn...no..you can't have your own way" he still whimpers but not as much.....and he realizes I'm the boss..

Peg

I know she has been hurt atleast somewhat while she was being groomed before because she had a few scabs even when I got her. I expected her to be more scared of the grooming really but then the first night I had her here, she was very patient with the grooming and even sat completely still for me. . . Looking back, I guess that difference could have been that she was scared and so she just kind of froze up. Maybe now she is getting more comfortable and is chosing to actually vocalize her disapproval?

Lol, on the puppy thing, she actually kind of sounded like that. When I said she was yelling at me, I think it was actually closer to a whimper or whine then a scream. I've unfortunately heard a bunny scream before and that is not I sound I EVER want to hear again.

 

[angoragrl]

Thanks for the advice EC. I did start talking to her after she started whimpering at me and she seemed to calm down a bit after that. I'll try talking to her beforehand next time and see if that helps.

 

[angoragrl]

tonyshuman wrote:

It might be that she's just not used to being handled, but she also might be in pain from the mats. Would cutting them out work better? My Muffin had a mat or two behind the ears and I just ended up giving her a little trim because they were NOT going to brush out!!

I've been doing a little of both cutting and combing actually. The problem is, the mattes are so close to her skin that I can't really cut the whole thing out. I'm thinking that I might just have to wait until her wool grows out a little bit to get the rest of them out. The ones by her face are the worse though and I haven't even properly started on those (beyond trimming them down some) because I really don't want to stress her out any more then I have to. At some point I'm going to have to get them though. . . At this rate, I think I'd be better off getting all her hair cut short and going from there.

 

[ec]

Poor girl - and really, it sounds like you're doing very well with her. [shudders at thought of scabs]

I'm glad she's with you now, and I bet she is, too!


** a thought: how is she with being petted? If you could start out petting her and then gently transition into grooming... maybe that would help?

Also, if you could maybe give her a small treat after she's done with a grooming session, like a few sprigs of parsley or a bit of banana - she will learn to associate the grooming with the reward. Nibbles is *much* more patient with my grooming her now that she knows she's going to get something yummy when we're finished.

 

[TinysMom]

Would it be possible to not groom her for a few days and just let her get used to you and start trusting you a bit more?

I'm sure you're anxious to get her looking better...but maybe she needs some time to get to know you first...

just a thought.

Peg

 

[angoragrl]

TinysMom wrote:

Would it be possible to not groom her for a few days and just let her get used to you and start trusting you a bit more?

I'm sure you're anxious to get her looking better...but maybe she needs some time to get to know you first...

just a thought.

Peg

I was thinking about that and if the only issue was really her looking better, I would definately be waiting. Some of the mattes that I haven't been able to get to yet are in places that are either pulling at the skin, or somewhat constricting her movement so really it is only these that I am the most worried about removing.

I've only been doing twenty minutes at a time on these more sensitive areas so that I don't disurb her too much. I also got a much better pair of shear yesterday and that is helping a lot already.

After I get out the few more mattes that I feel are actually causing her distress, I probably will wait a few days, or maybe even a week before I groom her again.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Bo will be getting groomed and when he's tired or it gets sore or something, he will do this funny "errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnt" and then thump.

Tony and Clover honk. It sounds almost like a sneeze and and car horn or something LOL!

 

[TinysMom]

angoragrl wrote:

TinysMom wrote:

Would it be possible to not groom her for a few days and just let her get used to you and start trusting you a bit more?

I'm sure you're anxious to get her looking better...but maybe she needs some time to get to know you first...

just a thought.

Peg

I was thinking about that and if the only issue was really her looking better, I would definately be waiting. Some of the mattes that I haven't been able to get to yet are in places that are either pulling at the skin, or somewhat constricting her movement so really it is only these that I am the most worried about removing.

I've only been doing twenty minutes at a time on these more sensitive areas so that I don't disurb her too much. I also got a much better pair of shear yesterday and that is helping a lot already.

After I get out the few more mattes that I feel are actually causing her distress, I probably will wait a few days, or maybe even a week before I groom her again.

Sounds like you have a good plan. I agree with whoever it was that suggested giving her a treat after grooming and I would try to spend equal times grooming vs. just "socializing" with her...

Then again - I'm a good one to speak - I'm not spending much time with Zeus to get him used to me.....I hope to spend more time with him in a few days...

Peg