Leasing a horse?

[undergunfire]

I have been thinking a lot about going for my "dream" of being a horse trainer or riding instructor.

I am starting community college in the spring and our college offers a pretty big equestrian program.

One of the things needed for these classes: a horse!


My only way of taking these classes is to lease a horse, as I can't afford the cost to own one completely and even if I could, I am not sure what my future is going to be like, so I would much prefer to lease one.

I still have to get into the college this week or early next week to discuss my "path" into the horse business. I need to know stuff like...any extra fees for the classes?, do I need my own tack?, what classes do I begin with?, ect.



I saw an add on craigslist, for a Thoroughbred gelding for sale, for a small adoption fee. I emailed the person right away to see if they would be interested in leasing the horse out to me, and the woman said that she would really like to find a home for him, but she would run my proposal by her husband because she thinks I would be great for "Gawaine"! I told her all about my 8 years of riding history, ect.

I am hoping I can pay for all of, or part of, the leasing fees of a horse from my left over financial aid money for each semester.


It would really be my dream to get back into the horse world and make a career out of it, I just have to find a way to not let money or owning my own horse get in the way of it!




My questions to anyone on the forum that leases (or even owns a horse)....



- What should I look out for?
- Should the owner of the horse write up a contract?
- If the horse gets ill or hurts itself within my leasing care, am I at fault...even if it was an accident?
- What is a good price range for a lease? Keep in mind that I will be training the horse....so it is basically me paying the people to train their horse.
- When you lease a horse, you don't pay for the feed, vet care, shoes, ect....right?


Anything else I should look out for?




I am not getting "attatched to "Gawaine" because I am not sure if I can even lease him yet, need him right away, ect....but here are his pictures and description from the ad:

"He's beautiful and has lots of energy. Someone who can offer him lots of attention (brushing and treats) and challenge him is what he's looking for. Needs an experienced, confident rider that will work with him and channel his energy in a productive/fun direction. If you are into English, and like to jump, this horse has amazing potential. Small adoption fee. GOOD LOVING HOME only! Please e-mail for details."

He looks JUST like the horse I rode for 8 years in NY. Same spot on the head, same white sock on the same foot, same color, almost the same description.

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

I loan my horse Smokey and it is such a good deal - all the positives of owning a horse for half the cost!

undergunfire wrote:

- What should I look out for? I found Smokey through the wonderful manager at the livery stables where I planned on keeping him who knew his owners, however if I were you I would keep a look out everywhere. Try and ask as many horsey people as possible - they are a great help!Also, try and look for owners who are willing to make a fair deal for you, and of course a horse that will suit your needs.

- Should the owner of the horse write up a contract?Well...unfortunately the owners of Smokey are pretty rubbish when it comes it the legal stuff, so my dad (who luckily is a solicitor) wrote up our contract, however you can find them in places like the BHS (or your equivalent) and then approach the owner with it.

- If the horse gets ill or hurts itself within my leasing care, am I at fault...even if it was an accident? It depends on the terms of your agreement, however if you are insured to ride the horse then it would be your fault - although this would be the case if you owned the horse too. Just make sure you are insured to avoid a hefty vets bill!:shock:

- What is a good price range for a lease? Keep in mind that I will be training the horse....so it is basically me paying the people to train their horse. Well, personally we don't pay anything to Smokey's owners to keep him, and they pay insurance and vets bills. So we only pay livery, food, shoes etc. Luckily he came with tack and rugs so that isn't a problem. Again though it depends on you individual situation you work out with the owners, but try and get as much out of it as you can!

- When you lease a horse, you don't pay for the feed, vet care, shoes, ect....right?Oops - answered above!But again though - we pay livery (food, bedding, care when I'm not there etc), and farrier bills.

Good luck Amy - I hope it works out for you.

 

[undergunfire]

Insurance? What? lol. Horse insurance? I don't have health insurance for myself right now, that is something I am hoping I can get for cheap from the school.



I had ANOTHER person respond to an ad for me wanting to lease a horse. She has a Tenne Walker that she doesn't want to sell, but would love to lease him to me.

I really have to get into the college for an appointment with a counselor...to see if I even need a horse right away yet, or not. I might have to take intro to riding, ect classes before I can start the REAL riding classes.



Hrm, I am desperate to ride again, I hope I can do this!

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

Lol, I know what you mean - horse insurance is the only insurance I have but in my opinion is vital. Horses are such expensive creatures - it is saving money in the long run! But try and get the owners to pay it like I have and then you don't have to fork out the money!

 

[Jenson]

Definitly get a contract, someone I used to ride with leased a horse without a contract with the understanding that the owner would pay vets bills, tack repair etc. and he would just pay for the day to day things.

However, one day the gelding somehow cut a foreleg pretty badly, I didn't get many details but I know there was tendon damage, anyway, the owner suddenly turned around and refused to pay the bills, saying it wasn't his responsibility! After the horse was just about sound he took it back and sold it, and there was nothing this guy could do about it because there was no contract.

Hopefully you won't come across anybody like that, but better be on the safe side.

Good luck with your dream.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Don't do it. There's no way you could afford it and be in school and the reality is most people who handle horses are people who have done so since they could walk.

8 years is a lot but it sounds like you basically took lessons and rode their horses, right?

 

[undergunfire]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

Don't do it. There's no way you could afford it and be in school and the reality is most people who handle horses are people who have done so since they could walk.

8 years is a lot but it sounds like you basically took lessons and rode their horses, right?

Actually, I have never taken a riding lesson in my life. I hopped on an old Appy mare and tought myself, then hopped onto an adopted middle aged Standardbred with an abused history....and mastered my riding skills. I think I am a great rider, even if I don't show or do much arena work. I rode western pleasure, mostly trail riding. You encounter so many things out on the wooded trails, that it makes you such a confident rider. I know how to ride.



I found a lady that REALLY wants me to lease her 5 year old, 15.3 hh, Tennessee Walker. He is so beautiful. She said she hasn't been on him much lately and really wants someone to work him. One of her horses is currently in training with one of the equine instructors for the school. He owns his own boarding stable and that apparently is where the school classes take place. This woman, Barbara, has 7 foster children....so really doesn't have time for him.



The best parts....

I get to lease him for free. She said she doesn't feel comfortable taking money from me because I will be working him and putting him through more training. She said all she wants is for me to pay for the boarding (if it's required, should be cheap to a college student), $3-$12 every 3 months for worming, $80 every 8 weeks for shoes, and $50 a year in shots (he isn't due until March '08).

She wants me to plan a day with her to come by and talk with her, then spend some time with the horse, and test ride him. I am going to be soooo rusty, since I haven't been in the saddle for 2 years!

I feel really good about this one. She own knows the instructor, which is the guy who also owns the boarding facility where the classes are, and is giving me free lease with the option to buy later on.



Well, here is Spirit's picture:

 

[Bo B Bunny]

You should really be prepared - I'd definitely check with your college before making decisions. They might have some sort of requirements. Basic horse and tack knowledge would be my least guess.

If you wanted to take a basic riding course that's different. Hopping on a horse and riding is a whole lot different than teaching them cues, and getting their gate down, perfecting leads and lead changes, tail set, ear set. Then you have different seats. English, western, saddleseat, sidesaddle, and all that. They don't teach that stuff in schools, really. How many "years" of courses do they even teach?

Did you ask this woman about vet bills? Because I spent about $1000 on one horse this past spring just for shots, wormings (which I did) and having her hocks injected with acid since she got sore from rearing up (freaking out at the first show of the season) and wasn't backing up like she should. Then I had to have her teeth floated $180. My sister inlaw spent almost $8000 on one that had cancer in his eye. Eventually we had to have him put down.

What I would say to my own child is this:

Go ahead and take some courses but focus on something realistic to do. This should be considered a hobby and if it turns out you could do something with it - Great.

 

[undergunfire]

It isn't my fault I wasn't raised around horses from a baby up, but that doesn't mean I can't make it into the horse training world.

I don't want to be stuck sitting at some lame office job for another 40 years.

I don't have to just train or instruct, they have TONS of horse stuff to do at my school. I might discover something something else horse related that I want to do.


You never know if you don't try, so why not try? All my life people (including my crappy parents) have told me "Oh, you can't do that!, "You won't make it", "That's too much work".


Time to prove people wrong.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

You don't go to college to learn to be a dance instructor without having had a dance class. That's the sort of thing you are looking at.

 

[myLoki]

Good luck with your courses! I've always loved horses but have never had the opportunity to ride them. I just want to say that I think Spirit is GORGEOUS!



t.

 

[ChompersMom]

Wow Spirit is so pretty! You made me miss riding . For four years I rode once a week in a private lesson with a trainer who trained in Switzerland with her horse. The horse and herself were both amazing..I can't afford it now but I would love to get back on a horse sometime in my future.

You're lucky to have that opp. and good luck!

 

[undergunfire]

Just because I have never had a horse riding lesson, doesn't mean I don't know anything about lead changes, cues, ect. I know how to ride a horse and what is involved. Some amazing artists may have never had an art class in their life, but I am sure their work is beautiful...regardless if anyone taught them about brush strokes and mixing color.

Thank you, everyone else, for the support. It means a lot to me .

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Amy, I have been around horses all my life and I know I couldn't train horses. I feel CERTAIN you can ride but not in a sense that you think you can.

Do you know howto cue a horse? when to cluck, when to kiss, when to squeeze, what leg to squeeze, when they are on the right lead and when they aren't? Do you know how to teach them these things?

Have you ever ground driven a horse? Do you even know what that is?

it's not about being wealthy either. My inlaws were very poor. My father worked with horses all of his life without money to do crap. He worked in barns and all sorts of stuff..... my bro inlaw is a bullrider and ya know what? he's also a farrier and he will tell you he couldn't be a trainer and he's an EXCELLENT rider. He just doesn't know enough about training. Oh and he went to Purdue and graduated high school at a private school - top of his class.

I support your looking to ride for a hobby. I think you should do ALL the work around the horse and understand the fundamentals first. Then maybe look at it more. You could be a groomer, or something like that. Sometimes barns will hire groomers for minimum wage to brush out horses and stuff like muck stalls.

 

[maherwoman]

I hate to say it...but I do have to agree with Bo B Bunny on this one...

Comparing something physical and objective that has exact physical skill involved (like running, riding, etc.) to something that's subjective and is judged based on preference and what someone thinks is aesthetically pleasing is just not a comparison.

I look at it like this: no one's doubting you can get on a horse and ride...what Bo B Bunny's trying to say is there is a complete difference between being ABLE to ride a horse, and being actually TRAINED in horse-riding.

Just like, anyone can go out there and jog for exercise, but it takes a trainer to point out that the person should use their arms and extend their legs more while running, to show them proper breathing, etc ...something that the person wouldn't have necessarily thought of on their own. Not to mention, what shoes out there are good brands to buy for running. Heck, even what type of shoe to buy, since the surface the person will be running on will determine the type of shoe. There are differences between how pavement will affect your legs and knees and how dirt will affect you...so thus you need different types of shoes for different surfaces. These are the types of things you wouldn't be able to rely on yourself to know...but would need a trainer to show you...and be there with you to show you the proper posture, etc. I was in cross country in high school, and would have NEVER known all that had I not been formally taught.

The little that I've learned of horses, it's very similar...and you just wouldn't know all that information unless you had formal classes (and I'm sure with horses there's MUCH more to learn, as I also recently learned that it's not just YOU that needs training, but the horse as well...whereas you don't have to train running shoes, hehe).

Anyway, Hun...not trying to flame you...just trying to point out that it's always good to start something from Square One, not where you THINK you should start. What could it hurt, really? You'd learn so much...and yeah, you might feel like the person thinks you don't know anything, but you'd also learn so much that you might not have learned on your own. Just approach it from the standpoint of being SURE you've got a good foundation for your future desires in the field.

Hugs and love to all!

Rosie*

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

I used to lease a horse so this is how it worked for me. If the horse was hurt while under my lease, I was not responsible for veterinary care UNLESS it was my fault (eg. hurt while I was jumping). BUT the horse I leased remained on the owner's property with the owner's care and supervision, I believe it is reasonable that you should be responsible for any veterinary care if the horse is off the owner's property because the horse essentially becomes your responsibility and the owner has little choice over it. The exception is routine veterinary expenses -- floating teeth, etc. I believe those should still be the responsibility of the owner. I was responsible for shoeing the horse, but not for the whole farrier bill because the trimming is considered regular maintenance. You are paying the owner to ride the horse and to take care of routine medical expenses, not to take care of all costs associated.

There is always the potential problem that you may not get along with the horse, especially as time progresses. I'm not sure how experienced you are but spooky horses can be dangerous, and sometimes a horse isn't so bad in the environment they are used to.

I have to agree with BBB a little, sorry. But I live in horse country and it's hard to find work here even unless you are really good. And most of the time, people translate good into experience. That is just a fact in the horse world, unless you are very lucky to snag a big break, it's hard to start off in without experience. Even if you can say "Iam showing 3'6" jumpers and school 3'9"," it shows that you have talent and experience in the show world, but even then people will be skeptical if you don't have a solid background in training. I've honestly never met a person who's made it in the horse world that hadn't already had a lot of experience as a kid/teen.

 

[undergunfire]

Thanks, again, for all the support. And this is not "reality hitting me". I know I can do it if I try, but like always, I have people telling me not to even try.

 

[maherwoman]

Oh Hun, I'm not trying to say you "can't make it" or "can't do it"...I'm just encouraging you to start with the basics, to be sure you have a really great foundation for your future-desired career in the field, that's all.

I think you should go for it, but start from the bottom up to be sure you have all bases covered.

Considering people in the horse field are saying it would take loads of experience, it would be good to be extra sure you have all bases covered, to "one up" those that have had more experience.

I think I can collectively say "we" when I say we just have your best interests at heart, and are trying to keep you from having your heart broken by not starting from the ground up in this, and then later on hitting a wall because you didn't take those basic starting classes. I'm REALLY not trying to invalidate your prior horse experience ...just saying that having those formal classes would be a good thing to have under your belt.

It's kinda like having to take basic education courses in college...they're stupid, and annoying, because it's all stuff you learned in high school...but colleges just want to be sure you've got the basics down before they throw you the harder stuff. Ya know?

:hug::hearts

I'm really REALLY not trying to discourage you from going into the field, just trying to give you an idea of something you can do to lay a great foundation for yourself.

 

[JadeIcing]

Everyone has the right to dream and pursue it, in the end know what can know what happens. She can take the class and than decide not to do it. Or she can have a gift and surprise us all. Or find something else she like to do with horses.

There is a program in a prison I don't recall where that the convicts are training horses and these are abused horses and so on. Some of these men had never seen a horse before. One guy had a natrul gift with horses and the guy in charge if the program was so surprised he was going to help him find a job training horses.


Edited to Add: I do understand what everyone is saying. I also understand how strongly Amy feels about it.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

It's not that you can't. It's that it would take you MANY years to even gain the knowledge to train and break horses.

Seriously it's like saying "I'm going to college tomorrow to be a music teacher"...... I don't play instruments but I listen to music.