Is fate trying to say something?!?!

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flemishr2cool

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Location
, Minnesota, USA
Okay ever since I started showing at ARBA shows and my mom saw her first English lop she has simply adored them. She planned on raising them when I moved out but she thought she would own a few just to show while I showed my rabbits. Everything seems normal right? Its not a recipie for disaster, however fate just won't let us have one normal healthy english lop! Here is the list of every English lop we've owned and what their weird fate has been.

Dudly: My mom's first english lop he was a blue tort, we bought from a regionally well known breeder. He was out of the best stock, he was destined to be a champion. And for his enture junior career he was, he wiped the table. Then at 9 months of age he started chewing on his ears. We tested him for everything and everything turned up negative, staph, bacteria, yeast, parasites, its like one day he decided to wake up and get rid of his ears. At his death he chewed off 4 inches on both ears! We even had him wear an e collar but he stopped eating so we had to keep it off or he would starve to death. At 11 months of age he developed a lower respiratory infection. We fought long and hard and actually had it cleared up. A month before his second birthday we went out one morning to find snot pouring out of his nose. He died that day. My mom was devastated to put it lightly

Lilybeth: Another promising blue tort doe out of the best lines. We paid big money for her. We she had 4 legs as a junior. Than at one show she was dq'd for a white tail, It was like over a month she devloped white spot under her tail, but she never had an injury there. We never got her bred because Dudly was always sick. After dudly died my mom was so devastated we sold Lilybeth because at the time she didn't want another english lop

Mary anne: While surfing the net I noticed one day that a very well known breeder had a picture of a litter for sale on her website. The litter was not from her rabbitry but she said they were going to be very good show rabbits. I talked my mom into getting a cute little broken black one. We met the lady at convention and paid big dollars. Later we find out that she had pigeon breast, and she never made senior weight, she was 4 pounds under senior weight. She was also a NASTY rabbit, We have never owned a rabbit as mean as her. We later gave her away and found out that Mary Anne came from a breeder that was raising Velveteen lops and that she wasn't an english lop, she was a velveteen lop without the rex fur.

Duncan: Duncan is a blue tort impulse buy. He is a beautiful sweet buck with the same personality as Dudly. He would wipe the tables, if it isn't for the fact that everytime he goes to a show he starts blowing white snot And the next day after the show he is fine, its just at the show. So no big deal, we just use him as a breeding buck. But when my mom only owns no more than 3 english lops at a time, it would be nice if she could show him.

Hatti: We recently bought hatti. We decided to at least get one litter of english lops before something weird happens to duncan. Two weeks after we buy her, (she was two weeks pregnant) She gets out of her cage and when we find her her eyes were draining terribly. Then she develops a chronic bone abscess, and she has a litter of 7 kits that looked like the sort of stopped developing a week before the due date, and were all born dead.

Ezabell: Which bring you to our last english lop. Esebelle is a black tort junior doe that has been doing great on the show tables and is very promising and nothing has happened to her yet ::knock on wood::

Someone please tell us we are not going crazy! its like some higher power has decided we cannot breed english lops. How can 5 out of the 6 english lops we have ever owned have SO many problems! We paid top dollar for promising rabbits. We bought from good breeders, these rabbits came from good lines. We did everything right, and every freak thing that can happen has happened to us! has anyone else ever had weird problems like this? In other words please tell us we cannot be the only ones!

::sigh:: thanks for listening to me rant, just wanted to see if anyone else has ever had these kind of problems!


 
I have never breed and so far Miffy is my only bunny but I just want to say how sorry I am for all of your losses. :hug2I just couldn't imagine going though all of that. Hang in there. I know someone with more experience can help you out.
 
Oh, man... Unbelivable. I have never had something like that happen to me, thankfully. (knocking on wood-my children's heads-just kidding) That would be really sad. I wish I knew how to help, but I can at least say I'm sorry you have had so many problems with these bunnies, I think they are a really beautiful breed myself.
 
I believe fate is just teaching you the different things to watch for when breeding this particular breed of rabbits.

1) Dudly - He's taught you that EL's have been known to chew their ears. I don't know for fact - but I've heard (here-say) that some EL breeders would tie the ears up of the *known chewers*... or they wrap them in some type of "ear case" or something to protect the ears.

2) Lilybeth - She's taught you that even on your regular show stock, you still need to give weekly / bi-weekly overall health and DQ/Fault checks. If she chewed on her fur or accidentally bit herself when cleaning, etc... that could cause white spots to develop. It could also be genetic - or environmental.

3) Mary Anne - She's taught you all aboutthe Pigeon BreastDQ in EL's... and what traits you probably should check for when considering young stock.

4) Duncan - He's testing your dedication and having you question whether or not you should cull him from your herd... for the better of the herd. Yes, he may have a wonderful personality and may have the potential to stomp the tables... but the stress of shows is obviously bringing on signs of possiblepasteurella - something to think about and evaluate.

5) Hatti - She's taught you about general health in relation to breeding. Her body needed the extra nutrients and vitamins to get herself in better health to carry the litter to full term - so in order to do that, the litter's development was jeopardized - for the benefit of the doe. Welcome to thewonderful & stressful world of breeding!

6) Ezabell - Good Luck with her! Now that you've learned so much with the others above... I'm sure you'll do very well with her. You now know several signs and conditions to watch for... she's your opportunity to prove and put your knowledge to the test - to keep her in the show circuit and for her brood-ability afterwards.

Even though it's tough (and somewhat sad since it involves living animals), it's a Trial and Error way of learning. You really don't know what to expect or how to overcome some conditions in rabbit raising unless you experience it first hand.

~Sunshine
 
Didn't really need the lecture at this point but I know what you mean sunnie. My family has been breeding rabbits for over 20 years and this is the first time we have ever encountered so many problems with one breed. Hattie after getting 150 mls of LRS a day for three days now, and shestarted eating tonight! so she should be going right on track. We will keep trying but if we lose these three we have now we won't get anymore. Other than the occassional pet one because english lops are awesome pet rabbits.
 
I don't think anybody would take that as a lecture.:huh Sunnie was trying to make the best of a bad situation. It was a well thought outand caring post. :)

sas

 
flemishr2cool wrote:
Didn't really need the lecture at this point but I know what you mean sunnie.
:shock:I'm sorry you interpreted it as a lecture... I honestly did not intend for it to be one.

I just thought I'd try to show you the lighter side of things... you're post seemed like you were rather down and at a wits end persuing the breed.... I thought I'd try my best at some encouragement.:?

~Sunshine
 
Sunshine,

It was an excellent post that you obviously put a lot of thought into. I'm sure others who are going through difficulties will benefit from it.

Flemish,

Most breeders with extensive experience have run into these types of problems. They either give up or learn from it and move on.

Many times starting with a new breed can be an entire new learning experience -- no matter how much you thought you knew. :goodluck



Pam

http://www.geocities.com/pamnock/
 
lol Alright I figured after the PM I get about this post I better put out a public apology. Sunnie I'm sorry I took your post that way and snapped at you. :imsorryI was feeling stressed and hurt about that rabbits and when I read your post it felt like I was being patronized rather than sympathized with. It just feels like I'm doing everything wrong and then it feels like everyone is telling me I am doing something wrong.... if you know what I mean. Leads for even more stress.I really do apreciate what you did, it was very nice of you. :hug1



Boy and now I feel like the immature new member all the Mods hate, sorry guys, I'm usually not like this :embarrassed:... Think I'll just go back to lurkdom until I figure this whole forumEtiquettething out... :sofa

Julia
 
flemishr2cool wrote:
Boy and now I feel like the immature new member all the Mods hate, sorry guys,

Julia


Think nothing of it Julia -- we've all had bad days and we've all been short on patience on occasion. Everyone understands that we all need to vent once in a while. ;)And you're certainly not immature!



Pam
 
I understand and sympathize with your viewpoint. I've been there as well - overly frustrated and stressed with various things that pop up... I had a Lynx DQ'd for a White toenail that I swear was not there a week earlier when I sent in my entries.

I didn't hate you - certainly no need to go to lurkdom... without your post, many people would not have learned how difficult breeding and showing can be. We can all benefit from each other through our experiences.

BTW, is there another EL owner / breeder on the list that can validate the here-say about "Ear Cases" or "Ear Pouches" for protection of those delicate, large, floppy ears? It would be awesome if we could get some feedback on that. ;)

~Sunshine
 
SunnieBunnie Rabbitry wrote:
BTW, is there another EL owner / breeder on the list that can validate the here-say about "Ear Cases" or "Ear Pouches" for protection of those delicate, large, floppy ears? It would be awesome if we could get some feedback on that. ;)

~Sunshine

Yeah! I really like English Lops, too, if I raised any breed of lop they would be the ones. I want to know what their top wieght is and how much space do they need?
 
English Lops - Sr. Bucks (8+months) 9 pounds plus... Sr. Does (8+months) 10 pounds plus. No maximum weights are noted for Senior show qualifications, just minimums.

I don't know what the recommended cage specs are though, sorry.

~Sunshine
 
I think its safe to say then that our rabbits can drive us crazy... lol :bunnydance:

Their ears can seem really delicate but most english lops never have a problem with their ears. I think housing is generally the cause of most ear problems... Like urine scald from dirty cages (or dirty bucks) and frozen, frost bite ears from water dishes in the winter.. The position of their ears prevents them from stepping on them... I'm not exactly sure on what minimum size works okay for e lop. We keep our english lop doesin the Flemish Giant hutches so they probably have two times what they need. And duncan our buck is in a 36" by 48" cage and that seems to work okay for a buck but I'm not sure that it would be big enough for a doe anda nest box. I'll have to go check that out later and let you know if there is enough room.
 
Oh and on weights I don't think they gotten any bigger than 12-13 pounds. They have no max weight like Flemish Giants... Other e lop breeders want me to breed english lops the size of my Flemish Giants but that may take me awhile... lol. I think the average size is 9-10 pounds.
 
The breeder we got our bunnies from had a bunch of this breed and boy were they BIG BUNNIES! I had no idea :) A beautiful breed though.
 
I didn't think they were that big. Yeah, if they got to 12-13lbs you would need a cage close to Flemish size. I would have to use my Flemish brood cage (listen to me, what am I saying? I can't start another breed right now!) for them, it's about 6'x 3 1/2' and it still seems crowded once those kits are up and running around. How would you keep them from getting their ears in thier water in the winter? You wouldn't even be able to use a water bottle because it would burst if it froze. I would think anyway, hmmmm.... Of course, this is all purely hypothetical, I can't, I really can't start another breed right now... But boy are they pretty!
;)

Sugar Glider, I love your avatar, such a cute little face! I've heard sugar gliders are really social and loving little critters, is that so?
 
We use water bottles for the English lops. But everyone else has water bowls. We just don't want to risk walking out to the barn one morning in the winterand finding one of them with half their ear missing and the other half in the frozen water dish...which has happened to other breeders. :vomit:

And just do what we did, think of it as adding another variety of Flemish Giants rather than a whole new breed, I mean they pretty much need they same size of things as the flemmies so its not like you have to buy new cages, dishes, carriers, and nest boxes... ;-)






 
gentle giants wrote:
Sugar Glider, I love your avatar, such a cute little face! I've heard sugar gliders are really social and loving little critters, is that so?
Yes they are :) I don't want to highjack the thread talking about them though. They are THE loves of my life... if you want to know more you can PM me or start a sugar glider thread in off topic and I'd be happy to ramble on and on and on and on....

As for the english lops I was very surprised by their size and their cuteness in person... pictures do not do justice to how very big and soft their ears are. If I didn't already have my heart set on my Flemish I'd seriously consider getting one. The breeder had a pet english (less thean 10% color) thankfully I didn't know that till AFTER I went home and was looking at her website again lol.
 
flemishr2cool wrote:
We use water bottles for the English lops. But everyone else has water bowls. We just don't want to risk walking out to the barn one morning in the winter and finding one of them with half their ear missing and the other half in the frozen water dish...which has happened to other breeders. :vomit:

Omygoshohmygoshohmygosh!!!! That is an incredibly horrible thought. The poor, poor bunny... I would have to think hard about it, mabye wait until I have a heated barn to get into ELops. That is my goal, I am saving up (could be a while yet, but I'm working on it!) to build them thier own barn, one that will be small enough I could use a little window unit to keep them cool in summer and a large space heater to at least keep it above freezing in winter.
 

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