Injectable Penicillin & Selamectin

[KimberlilyKC]

Hey, everyone,

My bunny Coco received a penicillin injection on Friday (6 days ago) for Pasteurella/other bacterial infection, and I also need to retreat him for fur mites with selamectin. The vet said it was no problem treating with both at the same time, but I just wanted to get other opinions. Since the penicillin can affect intestinal gut flora for up to 10 days after treatment, and I know selamectin also significantly reduces the amount of bacterial life in their fecal pellets, it seems to me that treating with both at the same time may stress his digestive system. But this needs to be weighed in balance with the fact that his first treatment of selamectin didn't kill off all the mites and we need to treat again ASAP, preferably before they get as bad as they were.

Your thoughts are appreciated!
Kim

 

[Maureen Las]

I am very concerned that your doctor is treating a bacterial infection with one dose of penicillin. This is an improper manner to dose as it will do nothing other than create resistance to the drug.

if he used the shortacting penicillin (procaine) it usually is given daily . a combo of the 2 penicillins is given QOD (bicillin)
Is this vet rabbit knowledgeable.

it sounds like he is using the protocol for syphyllis ( 1 injection Q week for several weeks) for an URI instead of dosing correctly.
i would be concerned about this . usually this occurs when vets look up treatment for penciillin in a book rather than having 1st hand knowledge.

I have give bicllin shots to my rabbits QOD with no GI symptoms. it is possible that your vet is giving 1 large injection.
As far as the revolution I have never hear that there is any reason why they cannot be used simultaneously.

here is a list of vets ...possibly you may either wish to talk to your present vet or find someone who treats rabbits frequently

There is a drug called Convenia tht be can be used on a weekly basis but this drug is new and only beginning to be used on rabbits. it is also given by injection.

 

[Maureen Las]

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_forum.php?id=9

 

[KimberlilyKC]

The injection given was a long-acting penicillin, supposed to be good for 3-5 days. As for how knowledgeable the vet is, she's the best we've dealt with out of 3 in terms of rabbit knowledge. She's about an hour away; the next option for us would be the vets in Halifax/Dartmouth area, which is 2 hours away. :S

Thanks for the link to the list, happy to see it includes NS vets!

 

[Maureen Las]

Is she going to repeat the dosage in 3- 5 days for an extended period ? If it is benzathine penicillin that is long-acting but as far as I know it is best to keep a sustained level rather than have a drop off; i would guess the vet is giving a large amount.Better to be done differently

Forum memeber giving benzathine alone still gave the injection QODfor abscesses. When levels drop the bacteria take advantage of it.

there is less chance of gut issues when a smaller dose is given more often than a large dosage all at once.
Maybe I misjudged your vet if she plans to repeat smaller doses every 3 days.

 

[Maureen Las]

This is the inital breakthrough article. treating abscesses with penicllin

other infections can also respond to bicllin (procaine and benazathine penicillin)asI have used this drug for URI's .
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jwmoore/bicillin/bicillin.htm

If you are in certain countries (canada and/ ?) this drug is not available for veterinary use . and either prociane (daily injections) or benzathine alone (Q2-3 days) is substituted.
this allows a steady concentration of the drug in the system

I am not a vet but have learned a lot about this from other forum members, readingand use in my own rabbits.

your vet must be congratulated on not giving baytril or sulfa or something else that is just not strong enough for most infections.

 

[KimberlilyKC]

No, she didn't mention anything about repeating, but my partner is talking to her again today, going to mention that Coco's nose is still a little runny. We'll see what she says about re-treating, if she says it's not necessary or doesn't want to do any tests at this point (difficult to do, I've read, as significant amounts of nasal discharge were rare; we found some only twice), I'll look into contacting other vets.

 

[Maureen Las]

many vets are really afraid of using penicillin (even injectable) because they are afraid of GI disturbance ; they tend to underdose.

Ihave had this happen where I live.

When they underdose the drug the bacteria build up resistance to that drug
there are other oral meds that are often effective such as zithromax, (azithromycin)and chloramphenical
but I have had better results with injectable bicillin and have never been able to get a vet to order chlorampehnical here .

maybe you can print the medi-rabbit list out for your vet; the drugs are generic names
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

 

[tonyshuman]

It may be best for you to find bicillin at the nearest farm supply store and dose it as indicated on the "bicillin study" angieluv posted.

 

[KimberlilyKC]

Okay, my boyfriend spoke to the vet yesterday and from what I can understand this is the logic for the one treatment: since it's likely to be Pasteurella, the goal is not to completely eradicate it as this is nearly impossible to do anyway. The goal is to decrease the population enough to let Coco's immune system keep it in check, as it's presumably been doing all this time up to now. So she's recommending we wait now and see if his condition stays improved / the symptoms go completely away, and if it starts to return we'll presumably be treating again or undergoing a different treatment altogether. This sounds reasonable to me, but I'm interested in your thoughts if you have any.

Personally, I'm also terrified of giving my bunnies antibiotics. From the reading I've done I was sure oral antibiotics should only be given under certain circumstances, if absolutely necessary where the benefits outweigh the risks; injections are much safer.

As I started this question originally only to find out about simultaneous treatment of Revolution & penicillin, I hadn't seen it as necessary to go into Coco's symptoms in any detail, but I think it would be helpful now as I'm wondering if you guys are perhaps imagining his condition to be worse than it is. He'd been sneezing more, with a mild runny nose, and twice he sneezed out a string of white mucus. The only symptom left now is the runny nose, much less often, and the occasional sneeze. Kiwi, our other bunny, is showing the exact same symptoms at this point. Both seem to be improving, even though Coco's antibiotic has 'run out' now for at least a couple of days. Classic signs of snuffles involve wet faces from weepy eyes and matted front paws from cleaning their noses, none of which Coco (nor Kiwi) displayed, so if we're looking at Pasteurella, he's only been mildly affected it seems. In fact, the second bit of mucus I'd found in his cage, a few days after the first, was more clear, and while I know you can't conclude from only two samples, that was possibly a good sign. This was before any treatment was received.

 

[Maureen Las]

I had a bun with normal behavior , no runny nose but a slight yellow tinge of mucous at his nostrils occasionally.

the vet chose to not treat all because he was hoping that the bun could continue to keep the infection in check ; his symptoms were less than your buns and he was young and the infection did not get worse

I understand whatyour vet is saying butIunderstood the options are to treat or not to treat and not to 'sort of treat"
I am thinking that treating like this will only create resistance toa drug. thatmay be needed at a later time

Iam not a vet so I have nothing more to say on this.

Time will tell whether the symptoms return full force or stay in check.
In my experience with this with my rabbits the infections will return

butI really hope that that it doesn't

In several of my buns infections of this kind became chronic as the bun became older and the immune system became less able to contain it.

 

[KimberlilyKC]

Just thought I would post an update on this. Okay, so we ended up treating both bunnies again, as both were showing symptoms. So that means Coco ended up getting two duplocillin (bicillin) injections, and Kiwi got one. The symptoms ended up returning, and by this point I wasn't really sure what to do, as the vet had said that she thought it was probably just allergies. I remained convinced that it wasn't because the discharge was white. Figuring we would need to take them to another vet (which would involve going out of town at this point) as well as collect a sample to get tested, I decided to try changing more things at home to make things better for them until we could get some answers. We switched from their new half timothy-half alfalfa hay (they were on this for maybe a month, month and a half - simply because the place we'd been getting our hay from was down to some not-so-great, dusty bales) to a newer all-timothy hay, and I started feeding them fresh mint and fresh oregano from the garden daily.

Well, guess what? Their symptoms cleared up! No more runny noses, no white mucus! So either the oregano and mint gave their immune & respiratory systems enough of a boost (seems quite unlikely to be helpful enough to clear up an infection by itself, though) or they were being affected somehow by the alfalfa - possibly they're allergic? The hay was in good condition: not dusty or moldy or anything. It's strange, though, because I used to feed them store-bought alfalfa when we first got them and I knew practically nothing about bunnies; they weren't allergic then. Very odd, but anyway I'm just happy they seem to be fine now.

 

[tonyshuman]

that is good that they cleared up. The protocol for duplocillin should be every other day for a week, though, if I remember correctly.

 

[terrellflyer]

your question,yes you can treat for both at same time.