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I'm stressed and shocked! Bunny bitten! Help!

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Catlyn

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That one and only second i left the door a little bit too open when entering the room, Lümi slipped underneath my feet and ran to meet Storm whom he'd been pretty chill with when neutral bonding.
I couldn't catch up to Lümi to stop him, the next moment i hear mum screech out and Lümi came running back to his room. I checked him and oh help me, he now has another extra piece of ear missing and it's bleeding!
I was asking dad to dial the vet on monday to book for Storm's vaccine but it seems we'll be taking Lümi along to get his ear checked too just in case.
What should i do in the meantime to help Lümi??? Will he be okay??15969095527733944950788538302554.jpg15969096246462826499271003052516.jpg
 

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Catlyn

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So i was checking the floor on Storm's room and i found that triangular piece that was bitten off, was a pretty big one indeed. The vet won't be able to do anything with it though, would he?
 

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Holy cats! That's quite an ear notch! Unfortunately, the vet will not be able to reattach the removed flap, although the wound itself may need stitches. On the brightside, it looks like the more vascular part of the ear is left unwounded. Is the ear still bleeding? It sounds like you have a vet appointment very soon, I would say she definitely needs to come along.
 

Catlyn

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Vascular part? Is that where the ear joints and all the other blood vessel collections gather in the ear? It stopped bleeding as far as i am aware, bled less than i even thought it would! His snow white coat is now a bit tainted but it's nothing that big, i was more worried about the ear not flopping into itself. Though i have seen vids of buns living only with one half a ear intact..... I don't have it yet, dad will call on monday for Storm's vaccine for the myxo and now to get Lümi's ear checked. Lucky us that the wait list is usually no longer than a week (called for Lümi's neuter on a monday and got the time for thursday morning) so if all goes well we can drive as soon as tuesday.
 

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The vascular part is the part filled with blood vessels :). The ear should ultimately be fine, I'd clean the wound gently with antiseptic. Hydrogen peroxide will get the blood off his fur. Good luck!
 

Catlyn

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Luck is much needed! We don't have antiseptic i don't think, will alchohol cleaning swabs from a car first aid kit work or not be good for the poor bun? I have a bottle of 3% hypero, how should i use it? Gently rub the bloody fur with fingers dipped into the solution?
 

zuppa

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Don't panic there's nothing serious just rinse it with salt water and it will heal in a few days, if you want you can make a compress with salt water or make a strong tea (not bagged tea I only use loose teas). You can use black or green, also some herbal teas: sage, thyme are strong disinfectants, I don't know what you have at hand yarrow would be great too, rosemary, chamomile etc. But it is really just keep it clean rinse with saline and let it heal. Keep his environment clean.

How to make saline solution at home

Btw I thought one of your rabbits was just neutered a week or two ago? It is not safe to let them meet each other yet you should wait min 8 weeks. This was completely natural thing and you should expect it to happen when you put two males together, since one of them was just neutered.
 

zuppa

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Just checked the dates, Lumi was neutered 30 July so it's not even two weeks ago you really shouldn't let them together it's way too soon and if you do blood to be expected. You should wait until October at least.
 

zuppa

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Luck is much needed! We don't have antiseptic i don't think, will alchohol cleaning swabs from a car first aid kit work or not be good for the poor bun? I have a bottle of 3% hypero, how should i use it? Gently rub the bloody fur with fingers dipped into the solution?
You can use cotton wool pad or something
 

zuppa

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Sorry I didn't see it was an accident. I wouldn't suggest starting bonding until October it can cause serious problems as you can see now. Hope your bun will be alright, this should heal easily he will just have a little reminder for life but when healed it won't be very noticeable. Just keep it clean and it will heal in a few days. Sure if you have an appointment with a vet take him too but don't put them both into same carrier.
 

Catlyn

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Yesterday was just a pure accident. If i'd reacted faster to catch Lümi at his door, instead of confusedly staring at him, (all i would've had to do was quickly bend down i think) none of this now would be happeneing. Despite that, it already happened, and accidents do happen from time to time, intended or not. Beating anybody up over that matter isn't going to help in any way either so i will not. I can consider Lümi to be lucky to have retreated right away with only a flap of ear missing...

I think i mentioned it in another post that i made explaining why the hurry. I don't expect anybody replying to a separate thread to this one to have seen or remembered what i had said on that other one, so i will try to explain it again.
  • For starters, my dad was absolutely persistent that if one is neutered, the other one doesn't have to be. I finally managed to convince him otherwise.
  • Then mum decided to think that buns can meet and greet each other through crate the next day after the op. She let Storm into Lümi's room without ever asking anyone if that was okay.
  • Moreover than that, dad thought it was absolutely okay to just put them in together in Storm's place and just "let them do their squabbles until they settle"
  • And neither would NOT listen to what i had to say. Not even slightly. They kept pestering me on "what if we move next month? How are they gonna get along then?"
  • I told them that then and there in the apartment would be a good place and a bit better time to start bonding. I made my point VERY much clear but no, they did not listen to my reasoning.
They think they know better than me, just because they owned rabbits in the past SO wrong it hurts my mind just thinking about it. Their "pets" lived in a shabby shed up in the air in wooden boxes with doors, so small they barely fit in themselves.

I told them to trust me in rabbit matters, telling them with examples of how different and better care for buns is now. They STILL didn't care for what i had to say on the matter.

So it was either letting them meet dad's way and let them essentially kill each other, or try and persuade them to take the slower way. Before the bite, they were starting to snug up in neutral places though. In the end, neither seemed to have turned out....

So now i will have to make myself even more so clear to my parents that buns should not be able to meet again for until we move, and that if they have lingering "don't wanna get along" feelings i'll stop trying altogether and find another solution.
Although i don't want to give up either of them.

Sorry for the long ramble, and thanks so much for the tips, @zuppa !
 

zuppa

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Thank you for the explanation, it your main problem is your parents and there's no way you can educate them you could rehome one of your rabbits to keep just one.

Now I get that your other rabbit is not neutered??
Because your parents think that if one is neutered that's enough?

You simply can't keep one just neutered male with one intact male, the injury Lumi had is not life threatening it will heal but they can simply kill each other or castrate each other in their fights males aiming genitals pretty often if your parents are pushing you to house them together sooner than they are both neutered and +2 months after, you can't change your parents but you can find one of your rabbits safe home, since your home is simply not safe for them.

So rehoming one of your rabbits would solve your problem.
 
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Catlyn

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No, Lümi IS neutered and as you said before, not "enough" time has passed from it.
I have gotten my parents to verbally agree that those two are not to meet each other until the end of the month, at the very least, so it would be bare bones 1 month from Lümi's neuter and 2 months from Storm's. If lucky, maybe even longer depending on when we move. At least then they wouldn't have to tolerate each other when trying to chill. That would still be better than nothing at all in my opinion.
Perhaps then was just not a good time to get a second bun, or it wasn't the time to get Storm the time that we did, but well those decisions have been made. Storm not being in a small cage with his brothers at 4 months old and Lümi not sharing his apartment with a non-rabbit-friendly dog are much better ways, albeit there's always room to improve.
All the shared exp and knowledge is much appreciated!
 

zuppa

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One month is not enough after neutering.

If Lumi was neutered 30 July then 30 September is your earliest date you can try bounding in a neutral territory. Sometimes they may need more time, I've tried bonding a rabbit who was neutered 2 months ago and they had a fight so I simply separated them immediately and kept totally separated (no see no smell) for another month so they forgot each other completely and started bonding again, it was successful. Your rabbits should be also completely separated so they can forget each other and forget that they had a fight, if they will remember that it will be very difficult to bond them.

If your Storm is a free roam then you have an additional problem because your house is his own territory and there's new rabbit coming to invade it. Neutered rabbits can also fight and kill.

So if you think you can bond them (after 30 September, not 30 August) I would suggest to completely separate them until end of September to give them a chance to forget each other, and limit Storm's territory. So basically get two cages and keep them in all the time until the end of September. You can attach playpens to each cage so they have some exercise but make sure they have no chance to escape. Then before you start bonding you will have to prepare new territory for that, cleaning everything with vinegar to remove smells etc.
Their cages must be as far as possible from each other so they can't see/smell each other, and you spray yourself with vinegar and rub your hands every time after holding one of them if you want to hold another, they must forget smells too.

You just want to go fast and it is not safe. End of August is too soon and both your rabbits won't be safe. You can use time to prepare their new territory and territory for bonding.

There's also no guarantee that they will bond at all, especially when they had a bloody fight.
Rehoming one f them would be your best option.
Especially when you can't control situation with your parents.
 
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Catlyn

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I do not want to go fast in any way, it's just that i can't get my parents to follow the advice and knowledge i have accumulated, which has already resulted in some bad stuff as said above. It is too bad they have to be so stubborn.
Our house has four rooms, connected in an U-shape. Storm is in the living room with his setup, the kitcen is in between (smack bang in the middle of the house) and then there's parents' bedroom, where Lümi is with his setup. After that we have an additional room but it's so messy and cramped it's unusable. We also have an upper floor but that one is equally unusable, just a wasteland of endless dust and debris. They each have roam of the rooms they're in, and are usually not allowed to enter each others' rooms, that's why i haven't vinegarized the whole house. I did one time but i guess it wasn't enough so i don't do it anymore.
I would have absolutely no problem walking around like a vinegar solution when interacting with different buns, my parents wouldn't follow that rule though so i don't know if it has any point... It's so hard when they won't listen to a word i say.
The apartment we are moving into for fall-spring season has only three rooms, all in a linear pass-through way and the only room properly spacious would be its living room. I was wondering how can i still keep them from seeing-smelling each other with those conditions.
That's why i had said what i did above. My dad said that he is willing to see if the buns will bond when nothing is familiar, and if not he'll give Lümi away, which is another point of conflict. Mum said she didn't care either way as she disapproved of both buns, but she still loves and spoils them? Although i'm pretty sure they won't be patient enough for another month.
i don't want to give up either bun if possible, and i don't want to live petless either (would give up on rabbits completely for the time being but we can't have cats because i'm allergic, don't have room for a proper dog sized dog and won't go for a pet that can't really be run free and interacted with) so if i had to choose no matter what, i'd find Storm a new home just because i like Lümi's personality better-he's a calm and curious fellow that seems to seek out interaction whereas Storm would just rather lounge in hiding, climb on things and act a little mean. I believe that Lümi woukd fit better into our family.

I'm terribly sorry if i come off as unpleasant or annoying or ignorant, i'm not trying to be. It's just that i seem to have hit a hard spot with my parents regarding the buns and i need all the help i can get. Thank you so much for the continued input!
 

Catlyn

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Neutering doesn't always stop fighting--we had 2 females that couldn't be bonded to anyone or anything--just how it is sometimes.
I was well aware of that, and i am figuring that perhaps if Lümi doesn't forget/keeps a grudge or when Storm continues to be so stubborn they just won't bond. Storm was always the one to initiate attacking, so maybe he just won't accept Lümi (or just about any other rabbit for that matter)? Lümi showed good initiative to becoming friends though, trying to get Storm's attention. (If i read their body language right) here are some pics of those good signs? Those were taken in neutral territory (managed to go a full hour peacefully, eating hay and grooming themselves, only one small nip, no chasing, never mounted)
received_1187415378301836.jpegreceived_726710074842385.jpeg
Can someone provide me with some statistic info on how likely or not an "average" bond has a chance to fail/succeed? X out of y tried bonds / z% of buns for example?
 

zuppa

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I do not want to go fast in any way, it's just that i can't get my parents to follow the advice and knowledge i have accumulated, which has already resulted in some bad stuff as said above. It is too bad they have to be so stubborn. .. .. ..
It's just that i seem to have hit a hard spot with my parents regarding the buns and i need all the help i can get. Thank you so much for the continued input!
You're welcome :)

As far as I can see your main problem is your parents who are stupid and stubborn, it's just amazing how such parents can produce kids who are so perfect and not stubborn at all. Well I've heard of parents who were not happy with their kids as well but I personally think that it is just both sides lost their bond at some stage and need to put some effort into trying to understand the other side and rebond, it takes time and focus but it is rewarding.

However I can't help you with bonding with(or rehoming) your parents, from what you've described your home is not safe enough for housing two young hormonal male rabbits so the easiest way would be to let one of the rabbits go.

Your 'success' photo just can't be a proof that they will bond.

From your previous posts Lumi is 6 months old and he is still not fully grown, Storm is also very young and neutered 1st July, and Lumi 30st July, that is just too soon.

Can someone provide me with some statistic info on how likely or not an "average" bond has a chance to fail/succeed? X out of y tried bonds / z% of buns for example?
You can google statistics of bonding for rabbits and show or read aloud to your rabbits, it may help them to understand that they MUST bond whatever it takes :)

Anyways I feel that you will do it as you've planned because you believe that 8 weeks is too long and you won't change your opinion on that so good luck with doing it your way. You are putting your rabbits under stress and risking their health/lives but it won't stop you. Maybe you are lucky and they will go by your plan, good luck :)

That is WAY too much time apart even when being extremely cautious. 2 months for his nonexistent sex hormones to go away? I don't think so at all, rabbits are of course individuals but i believe that no rabbit takes that long to chill unless they're extremely horny...
P.S. I am just going to try not to comment on this thread any longer since you have your rock solid opinion and you're like asking for help but you are not listening so no point to irritate you with opinions that are different than yours.
 
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Catlyn

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You're welcome :)

As far as I can see your main problem is your parents who are stupid and stubborn, it's just amazing how such parents can produce kids who are so perfect and not stubborn at all. Well I've heard of parents who were not happy with their kids as well but I personally think that it is just both sides lost their bond at some stage and need to put some effort into trying to understand the other side and rebond, it takes time and focus but it is rewarding.

However I can't help you with bonding with(or rehoming) your parents, from what you've described your home is not safe enough for housing two young hormonal male rabbits so the easiest way would be to let one of the rabbits go.

Your 'success' photo just can't be a proof that they will bond.

From your previous posts Lumi is 6 months old and he is still not fully grown, Storm is also very young and neutered 1st July, and Lumi 30st July, that is just too soon.



You can google statistics of bonding for rabbits and show or read aloud to your rabbits, it may help them to understand that they MUST bond whatever it takes :)

Anyways I feel that you will do it as you've planned because you believe that 8 weeks is too long and you won't change your opinion on that so good luck with doing it your way. You are putting your rabbits under stress and risking their health/lives but it won't stop you. Maybe you are lucky and they will go by your plan, good luck :)


P.S. I am just going to try not to comment on this thread any longer since you have your rock solid opinion and you're like asking for help but you are not listening so no point to irritate you with opinions that are different than yours.
I must have tipped you off pretty bad, haven't i?
I'm sorry, you're not irritating me at all. I asked for opinions so i will not complain about anything you have said. I appreciate all advice and i try to apply it the best i can. Sometimes a brutal face slap of truth is what works the best. Has worked for me now. I will also try to persuade my parents into listening what smarter people have to say, maybe it will help them understand where i'm coming from and what i think of the whole situation.
I'm not trying to bring up excuses as they do nothing but seriously, no, that what i wrote back then was stupid of me, when i had no realization of what two rabbits bonding time takes. We all make mistakes and i also happen to make some pretty darn harmful and stupid ones. I will take the learnable stuff from it though and aspire to improve. It might sound stupid and old, but i'm trying. I guess i need to put more effort in.
I will take your advice and do the best i can to follow it. I will find a way to ensure that both my buns will have a stressless peaceful life, even if it means eventually rehoming one of them.
Again i apologize for my unclarity and other mistakes that have occurred. I deeply appreciate all the advice you have given me.
 

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