I'm seriously "angry" with Riley right now

[JeffS]

Here he is after being naughty:

I think it began yesterday when I decided I'd had enough of Riley peeing wherever he thought felt like a litter box. He wouldn't go just anywhere, but for instance I had a tunnel with a towel on the bottom, and apparently that was an ok wee spot for him. I remembered reading about how you put rabbits in a small-ish place to let them decide where to go, put a box there, increase the area etc. I did this with pancake and it worked quite well.

Today he peed in an acceptable place! yay! So I let him and Pancake play outside their cage. What happens? Riley begins mounting Pancake. In the past few days the mounting has been minimal in frequency and ferocity, so I figured I'd just try and make sure that he didn't bite Pancake like before. This went on for an hour or more.

Finally I've had enough. Pancake isn't feeling too bad; she just flops on the floor when he's done and runs if she wants a break. I want to go to bed. I try to get Riley to stop by holding him down, making a squeek "you're hurting me" noise, or just nudging him off. None of these work.

I put them in their cage to see what happens. Riley is still randy. After letting him and Pancake work things out for a while I get mad and impatient and start grabbing Riley to hold him down. I'm not sure if he panicked or felt dominant to me, but he nipped me a couple times on my arm.

As a last resort I've put Riley in a little cage with some water and pellets to last him until I can deal with him tomorrow.

I'm really at a loss about what to do differently tomorrow. Pancake obviously likes Riley since even after all this crap she's laying next to him in his little impromptu cage. The only thing I can think of is to try and get Riley some exercise outside.

Please anyone have any ideas? I'd hate to have to separate them now that Pancake likes Riley so much.

Thanks!
Jeff

 

[Flashy]

What is the problem? Is it the litter habits? Or the mounting?

If it's the mounting then just let them get on with it. Pancake sounds tolerant of it, so only stop it if it is inducing fights. He is being a bunny, it's what they do; mounting is part of most bonding processes because that's how they work out dominance. Getting angry at him will only make him warey of you and more likely to turn vicious or nasty towards you. If you find the session is going on too long for you, then separate them, but don't get angry at him because he is doing what rabbits do.

If it's the litter training, what have you tried when it comes to him? Have you tried scrubbing the areas with a distilled vinegar solution? Also, if he likes to wee on a specific towel, have you tried putting any of that towel in a litter tray?

 

[JeffS]

Hi again Flashy. I'd let Riley mount pancake if I thought he wasn't going to bite her. Unfortunately he does, although *usually* he only grabs onto fur. When Pancake panics and Riley's left with a mouthful of fur that's one thing, but if he draws blood again, and he hasn't yet, then even though Pancake likes him, I can't see them staying together. Certainlly they won't be together without supervision for a long time.

I feel bad about getting after him so much. If it'll make him hate me you're right I shouldn't do that, so I'll make myself stop. But man, it's hard not to get mad when I'm almost forcing Pancake to hold still for him. And not just for a few minutes, but after an hour, and after all that mounting all he can thing of is doing his bite+mount ritual some more.

Anyway, the biting is what gets me mad. His potty habbits are something I can be patient about. Thanks fo the suggestion to put his favorite towels or whatever into litter boxes. I'm going to take Riley outside now in the hope that he'll burn off some energy and maybe not want to mount Pancake (yes, I let him out and the first thing he wanted was sex. well, after peeing). He's actually very good at holding his bladder, he just finds the most comfortable spot instead of the spot I want him to find. I'll probably end up with 5 extra litter boxes when this is done.

 

[Flashy]

I'm really sorry if you've said somewhere and I've missed it, but how long ago was Riley neutered? Also, what season is it where you are?

 

[JeffS]

It's spring here, and Riley was neutered 2 weeks ago.

He's fine now after hopping and nibbling around in the grass for an hour or hour and a half. Pancake was very happy to see him. He found his own spot to lay down, and wasn't happy when I picked him up to set him down in Pancake's cage. He peed on some papers quite suddenly after running through the litter box. He's laying down and looking sweet but his heavy breathing makes me think he's not relaxed.


Edit: updated my profile.

Edit: Flashy, if I had as many rabbits as you, my head would explode from Cute Overloaditis. Keep up the good work

 

[Flashy]

He will still be VERY hormonal. I would take a break and leave it until the weather settles a bit and until maybe 2 months after his neuter. That should give his hormones a chance to settle, and remove the spring element and then he shouldn't feel the need to compulsively mount.

 

[missyscove]

Yeah, so soon after a neuter his hormones won't have settled down yet.

Pancake is spayed, right?

 

[JeffS]

Yes Pancake is spayed. I guess I shouldn't be surprised about Riley's hormones, but he's been so well behaved that last night I assumed his regression was just him having a good time at Pancake's expense. Now it seems it was hormonal with the possible addition of the fact that I hadn't taken him outside yesterday.

Well, all I can do I guess is stay alert for the next few weeks and not keep them in the same cage while I'm not around to watch them. It's so sad because as I write this they're all lovey and cuddly together. I hope Riley can forgive me. I'll give him lots of love. Sorry Riley!

So if I can keep Riley's pee under control, the last problem is Pancake tugging on the carpet by the slider door where it's loose. When I make a screeching sound that stops her. Hopefully she'll eventually make the connection between "hurting" me and tugging on the carpet. Or actually, I keep forgetting, I need to get a squirt bottle for that sort of thing.

Thanks for helping,
Jeff

 

[missyscove]

A squirt bottle might do the trick.
Personally, I would get a piece of wood or something and set it down on top of the carpet, but that all depends on how bunny-friendly you want your home to look.
Remember, you don't own bunnies, you are their slave.

 

[JeffS]

missyscove wrote:

Personally, I would get a piece of wood or something and set it down on top of the carpet

Where's the headslap emoticon? Seriously, you're a genius. Bravo!

 

[BethM]

JeffS wrote:

missyscove wrote:

Personally, I would get a piece of wood or something and set it down on top of the carpet

Where's the headslap emoticon? Seriously, you're a genius. Bravo!

My Amelia likes to pull up carpet. I get carpet samples from the flooring outlet store (I think they're $2 each), and put them down in the areas she likes to pick at. I will admit that they don't look that great, but they do keep her from destroying the actual carpet. She doesn't eat the fibers, so I feel ok about her having some fun with the samples. The samples are also easy to pick up and put away, but I generally just make my guests deal with it.

The wood is a great idea, too, I will have to remember that one.

 

[Amy27]

Jeff, I do like Beth but I get carpet from Pet Supplies Plus. They have 3 different sizes ranging in price from .99-2.00 dollars. Last week I went to Walmart and they had a pretty big piece of carpet for $15.00. I picked it up and am using it where I am bonding my bunniesto keep the poops and urine off my carpet. I have found when bonding they go more on the floor.

If Riley can feel your frustration it maybe making him act out more during the bonding because he knows afterwards he feels stressed. I would always try to make Rileys time with Pancake end on a positive note. I know sometimes that is hard. I am trying to bond two of mine and there are times the bonding lasts 15 minutes and other days over an hour. Just depends on my patience for that day. When I feel myself getting frustrated I say we are done for today because I know I will only continue to get frustrated. I think bonding rabbits is one of the most frustrating things. But once it is done you will be so happy you put in the work to do it.

I hope things start to go easier for you. If you ever need to vent to someone else who's bunnies are not always nice to each other my PM box is always open.

ETA: Also wanted to add something someone taught me that has been a great help. When putting the bunnies together get on the floor with them and pet them. I have found mine are a lot less agressive when I am right there petting them. I wonder if Riley would mount Pancake less if you were giving lots of pets or feeding carrots and just being so close to them.

 

[JeffS]

My apologies for describing Riley's sexual behavior as more "aggressive." Perhaps I should have said "vigorous." As long as he's not horny, Riley is quite civil to Pancake. They don't ever fight, and while Riley isn't the most affectionate guy, he certainly isn't violent towards her. Pancake adores Riley and grooms him quite a lot.

And Amy thanks for your offer. I hope I don't have to take you up on it.

It's only been a short while since I first posted here, but I'm not, um, "angry" anymore ("angry" wasn't my terminology ). Taking Riley outside for fresh air and exercise seems to help him spend more time with Pancake without becoming sexually aggressive. At the first signs of mounting I simply put him in their cage and keep them separate until the next day. It'll be so nice when that's not necessary anymore (well, here's hoping at least).