I dont know what to do...

[KirstyBaby_18]

Hello everyone

Im new to this forum so im sorry if this is posted in the wrong section...This is going to be a very long post but id really really appreciate it if everyone could give me some advice please! Thanks so much

So my boyfriend and i decided to get a rabbit in March. Im a huge animal lover and he likes animals, but not as much as me. We are living separately right now, as i am in college and hes still at home. One day we walked into a pet store and he totally fell in love with the bunnies there. So after much thinking and convincing of his mom, i told him i would buy the bunnie and all the supplies for his birthday/easter present (i know, its not good to give a rabbit as a present, but we had both talked about it beforehand) and the rabbit would be OUR pet and we would share the costs and so on, but she would live with him until we move in together. So we went to the pet store (i know, bad again) and bought a 7 week old dutch dwarf we called Chevy...

Well, everything went fine for the first little while. But as she started to get older, she started to make a mess withthe woodchips flying out of her cage (we kept her in the cage, but let her out to exercise and run arounda few times a day) and her urine and feces began to smell really strong. And my boyfriend and his mom arethe biggest neat freaks you will ever meet. So you can imagine how that went over. Not to mention that his mom was dealthy afraid of any animal. But since then shes warmed upto Chevy...

Also, my boyfriend started to get more and more frusterated with having to spend the time cleaning her litterbox out everyday. I know, this is stupid, and ive gotten mad at him for it. But it does seem to me like she defecates a lot more than usual. Ive had 3 rabbits when i was younger and they never ever defecated as much as she does...

And as more and more weeks went on she started to get really hyper and crazy, flipping out in her cage and flipping her bowl over and such, and my boyfriend could not sleep at night because of the noise she was making and there was no where else for her to go besides his bedroom, and he would get upset becuase he has early mornings for work, and after not sleeping he would have to get up to feed her and clean her cage and exercise her.

So he started to not be able to handle the hyperness very well. And her scent glands were beginning to smell horrible rancid even though i would clean them often and he couldnt handle that either. And she becameslightly aggressive. So i did a lot of research online and found out about how spaying would reduce her hormone levels and calm her down and stuff...We we waited until she was 4 months to spay her. Well, that was last week.

And since the spay, Chevy has been a completely different rabbit. And not in the way we hoped or expected. She is even more hyper and crazy and sooo agressive. We cant even stick our hands in the cage to feed her anymore without her charging at us and trying to bite or scratch us...Im wondering if the vet didnt treat her properly before the surgery or something, becuase he was a bit odd...

But we really dont know what to do anymore. My boyfriend doesnt think he can keep her in his room anymore and theres no other room in the house she can be in. We were thinking about making an outdoor hutch thing that is well protected thatwe can slide her cage into and if the weather is realy bad then she can come inside but ive read that outside living for rabbits isnt very good for them, especially cuz im from Canada and we have pretty hot summers and very cold winters. But i do know people that do it here...

So id really like your opinions please. They would mean a lot to me. Do you think she will calm down and become less agressive? Why is she suddenly like this after the spay? And would it be ok for her to live outside in a very nicely contructed hutch? I just dont have the heart to give her away and i know all the shelters around here are full and ive heard of people who take rabbits "to give them good homes" but end up killing them and selling their cage or feeding them to their pet snake or something, and i love this bunnie so much i would hate for that to happen.

So please! Help me out - this situation is breaking my heart! My boyfriend and are on ther verge of breaking up over all of this and i really need some answers! Thank you!!

 

[naturestee]

Moved to the Rabbits Only forum.

Is there a chance you could give her more time? Hormones can do funny things, and she will still have hormones rampaging through her system for at least a couple of weeks.

If you do need to move her outside, I recommend pm'ing MyBabyBunnies. She lives in Canada and her three rabbits are doing very well outside. It's important to have a large, well constructed hutch and a safe run that she can play in while you watch.

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

Well rabbits hold grudges, I don't think it has anything to do with the vet. But she is probably weary of it again, all she knows is that it caused her pain. It's only been a week, the effects of a spay can take months to show and age is a huge factor. If she's only about 4 months old, I'd say you're looking at a teenage rabbit. They can get rather aggressive and moody because their hormones are going haywire right now. Even that could take months to calm down.

When you did your research, you should probably have taken it into consideration that rabbits are crepuscular which means they are most activein the eveningsand early mornings. It's natural behaviour for her to be making noise in her cage at night and that may never stop.

As for the amount of poops, rabbits never stop or so it seems. The amount varies depending on the rabbit and the size of the rabbit. Litter boxes should be cleaned daily. The digging at litter is normal behaviour as well, it's just your rabbit attempting to borrow.

I also live in Canada and all 3 of my rabbits are housed outdoors. That's not to say I agree that all rabbits should. You need to ensure that you will give the rabbit the same amount of attention and commitment outdoors that you would indoors. There are a lot of outdoor hazards you have to be cautious of -- flies, snakes, wild animals, cats, hot weather, cold weather, etc. I spend a minimum of 3 hours outside every day, closer to 6 hours if I can squeeze it in.You also have to consider that an outside rabbit needs a bigger cage. Since most outdoor rabbits do not get out as much as they might indoors, the cage has to be bigger to compensate that. That's not to say it would not need to be out as well, I have rabbit runs that mine run in daily. In short I believe only those owners who are truly committed and love their animals with all their hearts should house them outdoors, other wise the rabbit is not guaranteed the same quality of life it would have indoors.

And just a side note,store bought hutches are a big no no in Canada, they are great hutches but not built for Canadian weather, they are too drafty and do not provide adequate shelter from the harsh Canadian elements.

 

[bbgrl20]

Give her hormones some time to calm down and hopefully things will get better. But for now try respecting her cage and instead of lifting her out just open up the door and let her come out on her own. And while she is out you can replace her food , water etc. Is there no space where you live to keep the bunny yourself? I live in a studio and have 3 bunnies (no, the landlords dont know) Does your boyfriend cover the buns cage at night? She could be making all the noise because she can see him and just wants to come out and play. Hope some of this helped and good luck!:bunnydance:

 

[Pipp]

MyBabyBunnies is particularly attentive to her rabbits, and they're large enough to hold their body heat, the smaller breeds won't do well in a Canadian winter. What breed is your bunny? You'd certainly have to get her a friend, bunnies are very social creatures, they need to bond with you or another rabbit. Which could be the problem. As noted, maybe she just needs more interaction. All my bunnies are free run guys that only use their cages to poop, pee and eat.

They're all very socialble, they'll greet guests at the door and come running up for pets. Two used to becage aggressive, and they'll still grunt a little if you put your hand in their space, but very half-heartedly.

My hours are all over the place, butall five of mine are pretty much up when I'm up and they sleep when I sleep, because they interact with me. Pipp, my bedroom bunny will sit andwait for me to makeeye contact before running overfor my morning grooming. She spends most of her time on my bed or onmy lap, her choice.

The only time they mess up their litter is when I've changed things around on them (well, except for Darry, who's aslob, but hasn't thrown her litter out of the box in ages, probably because she has other thingsto keep her occupied,, like a boyfriend and a lot of toys,).

The main thing I did to socialize my rabbits was to spend a lot of time on the floor with them, at their level. I rarely pick them up. They come and go from their cages/space on their own. When I'm on the floor, they climb all over me. One doesn't really like hands, so I use my face, she lets me nuzzle her.

In anycase, as noted, a week after the spay is definitely not enough time to let the hormones subside, much less the fear and anger about what she sees as abuse.

I hope you give the bunny a chance and your boyfriend really makes an effort to make friends. He should really bunny-proof his room (really well) and let her run around. Orbond her with another rabbit so she won't require as much attention (but still let both of them run around enough in the daytime so they sleep at night. Even if they are up at night, they'll have better things to do than chew the bars, as long as you give them a lot of space and something else to chew).

Where in Canada are you?

sas and theBC gang :bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance:

PS: None of my bunnies have ever smelled, either, and don't need their scent glands cleaned, so not sure what that's all about. :?

 

[pamnock]

I agree with everyone to give her a little time.

I think that I've previously shared the story of our kitty Vera (stinky, grosscat from hell). Vera had stomach issues, couldn't control herself and smelled to high heaven. I highly regretted bringing her home and my husband said that there was no way we were going to be able to keep her.

Well, I hung in there and am so glad that I did! We love her so much and I'm so glad that I stuck through the difficult times.

Give her some time and see how things work out. If things don't get any better, at least you'll know that you gave it every chance.

Pam

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

That's not completely true, Zoey is a Holland Lop, a larger one at that but I know a few Holland Breeders in the area that house them outdoors all year around. But you do have a point, and one I forgot to mention, not all breeds are suited to outdoors. Mine were born and raised outdoors, only my doe has any idea of indoor life. A breed like a Rex or Mini Rex or Netherland Dwarf is probably not a good rabbit to put outdoors. The Rex's have too short of a coat and the ND's are just too tiny. Longer haired breeds also would require more grooming because straw and hay would get caught in their coats. You said you have a dutch/dwarf? Do you know how much it weighs?

The only big problem I see with bonding her to a friend is she's still young. There's always the chance she could fight with another rabbit and then you'd have to house them separately. My suggestion would be to wait until she's about a year and then go to a shelter and find anadult buck for her. Getting a baby is like playing Black Jack, there's always a chance things wont work in your favour and they could potentially start fighting.

Keep in mind that a friend wont make things any quieter, 2 rabbits means twice the noise. I can hear my rabbits housed outdoors playing at nights, that's how loud they are.

 

[Pipp]

Ah, wise words from MBB. My advice about a friend doesn't come with a guarantee.

And good breed info there, too.

But as I said, MBB is particularly attentive.Her bunnies get everything it takes to keep them safe, warm,healthy and happy through an Alberta winter.Not a lot of situations I'dtrust to do the same.

sas

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

Pipp wrote:

But as I said, MBB is particularly attentive.Her bunnies get everything it takes to keep them safe, warm,healthy and happy through an Alberta winter.Not a lot of situations I'dtrust to do the same.

That's why I don't like to recommend it, although I hate that owners of outside animals tend to get such a bad rap. :?

You have to be completely dedicated to do it. I mean, how many people want to spend more then a the time it takes to run to their car outside in -40 weather? Not many, yet I can spend upwards of an hour at a time outside, although I avoid cleaning hutches in temperatures that low. I also give fresh water a minimum of 8 times a day in the winter, frozen water is a real issue.

I forgot to mention one thing, NEVER should a rabbit be brought inside during the winter. The rabbit can get heat stroke simply because they have aclimatized to the winter weather, it's better to simply make sure that the hutch is out of any drafts and can get the afternoon sun, but afternoon sun is only ok in the winter. You're rabbit is safer outside in the freezing cold than it is being brought inside where it's warm. A 16*C/30*F temperature change is dangerous although the outside temperatures do fluctuate more than that sometimes.

As I started to state before, cage placement is also critical. In the summer the rabbit must not be in the afternoon sun, the morning sun is ok but the cage needs to be placed in such a fashion that the whole thing is shaded in the afternoon. No, the cage cannot just be shady inside, the outside gets warm from the sun and makes it dangerously warm inside it. But since it's cold in the winter, the afternoon sun is ok for them to get.

Cages need to be built to ensure maximum accessability and need to allow good air flow.

Keep in mind that since the temperatures fluctuate a lot more outside than inside, an outdoor rabbit sheds a lot more and often times a lot worse then indoors. Which means a lot more brushing (it's not fair to not brush the rabbit just because it's outdoors).

So basically keeping a rabbit outdoors may be quieter but it's a lot more work. Details are critical, I keep records of EVERYTHING, no matter how seemingly insignificant it is. An outside rabbit is less likely to have an early symptom of an illness caught so keeping track of everything and frequently checking as well as getting to know your rabbits eating habbits and personality is very important. The slightest change may be a big sign.

Think long and hard before moving it outdoors, it's really not fair to the rabbit if it has to suffer in the end.

 

[NZminilops]

Here in New Zealand it's unusual to keep a rabbit INDOORS! It's so uncommon that I had never even heard of people doing it until recently, and then usually it's only when it's snowing outside or they want to play with the rabbit for the evening. The way that (mostly Americans, Canadians and Brittish I am guessing) others have the neat idea cube houses etc is a totally alien idea here. With one exception, I have always had outdoor rabbits in all kinds of weather. The MOST important things as mentioned above are shade, shelter and water, and most of all love and attention. My doe is so used to being outside that if I bring her in she just sits in a corner and sulks.

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

My rabbits hate it indoors as well. They freak out when their inside and Mocha will go 24 hours without pooping but the secodn I put him outside, he poops everywhere. :shock:So to save myself form any more heart attacks, I just leave them outside.

Here it's different, the humane society in our town wont even give you the time of day if you say you have outside animals. They would never adopt a dog to me, let alone a rabbit which is why I don't support my local humane society and would never adopt from them.

 

[KirstyBaby_18]

Thank you all very much for the great advice. To answer some questions, Chevy is a 4 month old dutch/dwarf bun, who weighs 3.4 lbs. So im guessing from your responses she wouldnt do too well outside...But weve been thinking we might just put her outside in a hutch on nice days (not too hot or cold) and some nights where she keeps my bf awake. And no, theres no place i can keep her where im living right now.

So from your advice, i think we are just gonna give her some time and a lot of attention and love and see what happens. She keeps having big mood swings though - one minute shell be a sweetie and if we let her out to run around she either just runs back in her cage or runs to a corner and when we try to pick her up she attacks. And my bf started getting her used to being pet inside the cage so she didnt attack when he fed or cleaned her, but all of a sudden shes doing it again.

Its so frusterating! She was even better before we spayed her and we thought the spay was gonna calm her down a bit, but it just made it worse...I just dont understand...

 

[ilovetegocalderon]

KirstyBaby_18 wrote:

Its so frusterating! She was even better before we spayed her and we thought the spay was gonna calm her down a bit, but it just made it worse...I just dont understand...

Hi Kirsty,
As others have mentioned, you haven't given her enough time after the spay for the hormones to dissipate. If anything, it's perfectly understandable she is even extra grumpy now. She just had a very invasive surgery and is feeling a lot of discomfort.Not to mention, the hormones are STILL there. Give it some time for her to heal and for the hormones to go away and you should see dramatic improvement.

btw - Welcome to the forum! :wave2

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

From that discription I'd say it's definitely the teen years. It's very common, especially for does, to be very sweet and then all the sudden become agressive especially about their cages when they hit what we call the 'teen years'. And teen bunnies are often very moody. (Even spayed does canhit this stage.)

I'd suggest giving her time and as others suggested, you need to establish some boundaries for both you and her. It's best that you limit touching her at all in her cage, if you want her to come out, open the door and let her come out if she wants to, if she doesn't, then don't make her come out. As for cleaning the cage, you should always clean it out while she is out running around, if you are reaching in and trying to clean it while she is in it, she is feeling threatened by you guys. I'd also suggest hand feeding her treats while she is outside of her cage, but only give her a treat right from your hand if she is not being aggressive otherwise she may think you are rewarding her for bad behaviour.

I find the best way to help a rabbit become comfortable with you again is to spend time at their level and avoid touching them at all. When I got my doe she was not very socialable, I spent 2 months just sitting with her and allowing her to come up to me but I never made a move to touch her, the most I did was move my hand close to her to give her a treat from it. As things progress you can eventually touch her again but I suggest not picking her up if at all possible for a while. You can ask other members how they trained their rabbits to go back into their cages on command.

The last suggestion I have is in regards to her attacking while feeding. It's best to invest in some leather gloves. You can put them on when putting the food in her cage so if she attacks, it doesn't hurt. You guysare probably inadvertantly teaching her that if she attacks, she'll be left alone. If she attacks while your hand is in there, you need to keep the hand there, not move it closer, just leave it in the cage so she gets the idea that 'hey, biting doesn't help me get my way anymore'.

Hope this helps and works for you!

P.S.- I'd suggest not keeping her outside being so small and the stress of being moved in and out is not very good for her, it may cause more aggression.