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Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by KutuKuti, Jan 29, 2018.

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  1. Jan 29, 2018 #1

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

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    Hello everyone, My bunny,Kutu is 2.8 years and neutered. Very recently I had been seeing a lot of calcium in his urine. I feared that he maybe having bladder sludge. Here in India there are no proper rabbit savvy vets. One of my buns died due to wrong medications by a vet here. From then on my only hope is suggestions and advice from experts online who help me. I did a Xray two days ago but no one is able to understand it. On experts suggestion I have been feeding him cranberries. On seeing his urinalysis report one expert adviced me to give him Septran and Melonex. Kutu has a very sensitive tummy because of which I am very scared to give him new meds. After the 3rd dose of these meds Kutu pooped a few soft poops and is also pooping very less. Is it mandatory to give probiotics along with a dose of antibiotics ?? I have stopped giving Septran now but I am really scared. His diet consists of Oxbow Western Timothy and Orchard grass hay. But he doesnt eat much hay. Leafy greens like celery, bok choy, cilantro and others. And Oxbow Organic BeneTerra pellets. Could you all please advice me as to what'what's wrong with Kutu. Thank you in advance.
     
  2. Jan 29, 2018 #2

    JBun

    JBun

    JBun

    Jenny - Health & Wellness Mod Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    As long as the urine isn't thickened creamy urine or pasty, and your rabbit isn't dribbling urine or having blood in the urine, it should be alright. Calcium in the urine is normal as that is how rabbits get rid of extra calcium from their diet. It's only when it builds up in the bladder and causes the thickened white urine that it's a problem. If you aren't sure if the urine is bad or not, you could try posting a picture of it here.

    You are already feeding a pretty low calcium diet, but reducing any high calcium leafy greens/veggies(spinach, kale, parsley, carrot tops, etc) that you feed should decrease the amount of calcium in your rabbits urine.

    The only reason your vet should advise you to give antibiotics is if the urinalysis showed a bacterial infection or blood in the urine. If it didn't, I sure wouldn't want to be giving antibiotics unnecessarily. If there was an infection or blood, then the proper rabbit safe antibiotic is needed. Usually either sulfamethoxazole/trimethoprim or enrofloxacin. It looks like your vet at least prescribed the proper medications, septran(smz/tmp, antibiotic) and melonex(meloxicam, anti inflammatory), but if your rabbit seems to be having a bad reaction to the septran, you could ask for enrofloxacin if that's available to you. Antibiotics causing some soft or smaller poop can be normal. You just don't want the soft poop to get worse and for it to become watery or pudding like diarrhea(emergency situation), or for your bun to stop eating. Probiotics may help if you have a good one available. But if your rabbit really doesn't need the antibiotic because there's no infection or blood in the urine, I absolutely wouldn't continue to give it.
     
  3. Jan 30, 2018 #3

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

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    Thank you so much for you reply. I have stopped the Septran yesterday. He was given 2.8ml twice daily. His weight is 2.8kg. Wasn't he given a high dose considering how sensitive he is. He has had some soft poops and is sitting in s hunched position and grinding his teeth. I gave only 3 times then stopped. How long does it take a bunny to show symptoms of antibiotic overdose? Will he be alright ? I am really scared now.
     
  4. Jan 30, 2018 #4

    JBun

    JBun

    JBun

    Jenny - Health & Wellness Mod Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Sitting hunched and grinding teeth is a bad sign. The antibiotic may have severely upset his stomach. Usually when this happens they also refuse to eat, which is also bad if it goes on for too long. I can only say what I might do in a similar situation when I didn't have a good rabbit vet that I could take my rabbit to for treatment. You'll have to decide if you think it might also be the right thing to do for your rabbit.

    Certain antibiotics can sometimes cause bad bacteria to grow in the rabbits digestive tract and this can make them very sick. When this happens, the medication that I would want to give my rabbit to stop this overgrowth of harmful bacteria, is called metronidazole at a dose of 20mg/kg every 12 hours for 1-3 weeks. This is what I would want to give, especially if there is any bloating, stomach gurgling, and/or diarrhea(pudding or watery consistency).

    Since the rabbit also stops eating when this happens, I would also start syringe feeding, but first I would check to make sure my rabbit wasn't bloated(as you shouldn't syringe feed a rabbit with bloat). To check for bloat, I very carefully(not using too much pressure) feel the rabbits belly, just under the rib cage, to feel if the stomach is bloated. If it is then it will feel like a small inflated balloon just under the ribs. If the stomach is bloated, I would give 1ml/cc of simethicone infant gas drops(with rabbit safe ingredients)for 3 doses an hour apart, along with the medication metronidazole that I was already giving to control the bad bacteria. If there is no sign of bloat then I would go ahead and syringe feed.

    For syringe feeding I use oxbow critical care food mix for rabbits, but if this isn't available a pellet mush can be used by soaking the rabbits pellets in warm water making it into a pudding like consistency or a bit thinner. I would then use a large tip feeding syringe and carefully squirt it in through the corner of the rabbits mouth, squirting a small amount at a time, making sure the rabbit has time to chew and swallow, as it's important to be very careful not to squirt too much too fast or the rabbit might breath it into it's lungs. I would also syringe some water as well.

    If I couldn't get the medication metronidazole, then I would just give the simethicone, if I found a bloated stomach. If the stomach wasn't bloated then I would just syringe feed food and water if my rabbit wasn't eating, until my rabbit started eating again on his own.

    So this is what I think may have happened to your rabbit, it's called clostridial enterotoxemia. It's an overgrowth of the clostridium sp. bacteria. It can be fatal and needs immediate treatment when it happens, to have any chance of saving the rabbit affected. This link has the information about the disease and how to treat it with the antibiotic metronidazole, and the dosing information. It is somewhat technical though, with some medical wording. If you do have access to metronidazole and decide to give it, if it is oral medication, then you need to make sure that the suspension liquid that it is mixed in with, is safe for rabbits. It for sure shouldn't have any xylitol in it.
    http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Bacterial/Clostridial_enteritis_rabbits.htm
    http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Generalities/Enteritis_en.htm
     
  5. Jan 30, 2018 #5

    JBun

    JBun

    JBun

    Jenny - Health & Wellness Mod Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Here is a video showing how to syringe feed.

    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iGZVYVm5Bg[/ame]
     
  6. Jan 31, 2018 #6

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

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    I can't thank you enough for helping me so much. I had stopped the Septran that day itself. After that he was having somtimes soft poops . Now he is producing normal poops. I have Oxbow critical care but since he is eating on his own I haven't fed it to him. An expert suggested me to give olflaxcin to Kutu because of his UTI. But I am very scared to give him antibiotics so I am not giving anything now. How long do you think the Septran will stay in the system ? Thank you once again for replying to my queries and advising me.
     
  7. Jan 31, 2018 #7

    JBun

    JBun

    JBun

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    Since he is pooping normally and eating enough on his own, then I would think he should be fine and you shouldn't need to syringe feed the critical care food mix. It had just sounded like maybe he was in pain and not eating due to the antibiotic, but I'm glad that's not the case. As long as he is eating, drinking, pooping, and behaving normally, then I would think the septran is no longer affecting him.

    What makes you believe that he has a urinary tract infection? Did you find blood in his urine, has he been dribbling urine/incontinent, and/or straining to urinate?
     
  8. Feb 1, 2018 #8

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

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    I gave him Septran 3 times. 2 times 2ml and One time 1ml. That is on 28th and 29th. I read the articles on clostridial enterotoxemia that you posted. It says that the symptoms may appear after 3 to 5 days. Kutu hasn't pooped in the last 8 hours now he pooped a little. I am very scared now. Is his symptoms appearing now ?
     
  9. Feb 1, 2018 #9

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

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    An expert saw his urinalysis report and said that he is having UTI. No Kutu isn't dribbling urine or passing blood in his urine. But sometimes while playing he is peeing in that exact spot that is outside his litter area. Also I think I saw him straining to urinate 1 or 2 times. I am trying to attach the reports here
     
  10. Feb 1, 2018 #10

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

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    These are his X-ray and urinalysis and stool report.

    Screenshot_20180129-182435.jpg

    IMG-20180127-WA0013.jpg

    IMG-20180127-WA0012.jpg

    IMG-20180127-WA0011.jpg

    Screenshot_20180125-193605.jpg

    Screenshot_20180129-182426.jpg
     
  11. Feb 1, 2018 #11

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

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    The routine stool report.

    Screenshot_20180125-193615.jpg
     
  12. Feb 7, 2018 #12

    RavenousDragon

    RavenousDragon

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    Enrofloxacin is generally considered safe for bunnies. It SHOULD help clear up the UTI and if he is enterotoxemic, it should help with that too. However, if his stools become abnormal, I'd stop it again. Those x-rays are kind of hard for me to read (I'm used to super fancy high quality ones, because I'm spoiled here!) but it does look like there is a bit of sludge in the urinary bladder, possibly due to the E. coli. Those results also seem to suggest a UTI, like your vet already said.

    How is he doing?
     
  13. Feb 7, 2018 #13

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

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    I stopped the Septran that day itself. I haven't given him any more meds till now. I am really scared to give meds. I think I wasn't able to take a clear picture of the Xray. I will click some more pictures and hopefully they will be clearer. He isnt eat hay at all. His poops are round and firm but they are deep black and a bit smelly. The leafy greens that he eats are water spinach, cilantro, italian basil, bok choy, brocolli leaves, celery leaves. I purchased the oxbow essentials pellet. He is currently on oxbow bene terra pellets. Can I give him both the pellets ?
    Thank you once again.
     
  14. Feb 7, 2018 #14

    RavenousDragon

    RavenousDragon

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    I would wait a few more days to give him a new kind of pellet. Both are good pellets which I trust, but changing any food can cause another GI upset.
     
  15. Feb 10, 2018 #15

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

    KutuKuti

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    Thank you so much. Kutu's tummy is appearing a bit firm and swollen to me. I can't understand actually. I have read all about distended belly on the net but I really cannot understand if his belly is swollen. Any idea how do I understand it ?
     

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