Heated Introduction

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sugarbunnies

sugarbunnies

Well-Known Member
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Oct 17, 2012
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Location
Oceanside, California, USA
Hello!

I am new to the forum and a still pretty new bunny owner. I rescued Fenrir (English spot and Dwarf cross), from the SD Humane Society about three weeks ago. And because I was going to start working soon, I could not let him stay by himself all day, so I decided it was time to get him a buddy. Nikolai (Mr. Niki -- American) came from the same shelter. I've had him for about two days now. He is already curious, brave, and loving. Even though I have had Fen for 3 weeks, he is still very "uninterested" in me, shy and withdrawn, etc.

Now on to the point. I may have made a mistake by attempting to introduce them so suddenly, with Nikolai just having been moved to a different home, but I admit that I wanted Niki to feel more comfortable being in a new environment with someone he could lean on.

I have an x-pen I keep Fen in while I am away. So, I kept Fen in the pen, and let Niki roam around in my bedroom. At first they sniffed, and then there was digging through the bars. Fen at first was scared and merely jumped back. This would happen off and on all day. NOTE: This was not a biting through the bars kind of deal, I watched them carefully.

That night (I had done research prior, asked tons of questions at the shelter, etc), and put them in neutral territory: the bathroom. I did not put them in the tub but allowed them the floor. They sniffed. Fen mounted Niki and humped him... um, ferociously. NOTE: They are both neutered males. 9mo and 1yr.

Niki was okay with it for about 20 seconds, then flipped out and aggression ensued. They were fighting. I QUICKLY broke it up (while not very smart, I reached picked one of them up, disregarding I could have gotten bitten very easily). Chunks of hair littered the floor, otherwise they were okay. I felt terrible that I had stressed Niki out so badly. I held him and calmed him down. Fen seemed not to be bothered; in fact, he laid down. I decided that this was not a good idea to try again that night.

I read that mixing their scents was a good idea, so I put Niki in Fen's pen without cleaning it yet. They will come meet eachother at the bars, but nothing aggressive, save a time Niki grabbed a chunk of Fen's hair.

I know it is very early, but should I give up hope that they will be able to bond in the future? Can aggressiveness be put aside?

Kind advice would be appreciated...

Thanks.
 
Since they were adopted from the shelter, I'm guessing they were also neutered there. It can take as long as 2 months for the hormones to die down after a neuter. Especially since you're trying to bond two bucks, I'd wait it out and let their hormones have a chance to dissipate.
 
I apologize for another chain post but wanted to add that even though Niki is litterbox trained, he seems to be pooping EVERYWHERE. Is this because he is in unfamiliar territory? His litterbox is RIGHT there but chooses not to go in it.
 
Neutered rabbits can and will spray when introduced to another. My male has done this several times during attempted bondings. Basically he jumps and squirts some extremely foul smelling urine at the other bun. I'm pretty sure this type of urine is different than normal. It's concentrated or something. When I had two neutered unbonded bucks, the house would often reek because even though they were in separate pens, they were still "spraying." Keeping neutered males and females doesn't appear to trigger this response, so maybe it's more of a male vs. male thing.

As for the pooping, that's definitely a territorial response. When Stelio is my only bunny, he's perfectly litter trained. When another rabbit is in the house, he starts leaving droppings EVERYWHERE, even on the couch. It's basically his way of saying "This is mine and this is mine and that thing over there? Yeah, that's mine, too."

Good luck on the bonding of your two buns. I haven't had much luck in that area myself, but I have high hopes for the one I'm currently working on.
 
I'm currently in the middle of bonding myself. I have done alot of research on it. Here is an article I have referred too several times. It's one of my favorite on bonding

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/bond.shtml

There is no way to tell if they will get over the aggressiveness, but I think it's too early to stop just yet.

I think that you may have moved a bit too soon, like you said. Also, it's important for both bunnies to get equal free run time. Don't let one bun see the other bun running around. The free bun will consider himself winner.

Also, don't reintroduce in that bathroom. Find another neutral spot when you do. I would also limit the space. Not sure how big the space is but it sometimes work to start small and then move up gradually with space.

They do hold on to the memory of the fight at least for a brief time after. You might want to seperate them completely for a few days (cages in different rooms) and to also let mr niki get used to his new home.

When you do start bonding again, you may try the "scaring" method, where you run a vacuum or take them for a ride in the car. If two buns are frightened, the idea is that they might turn to each other for support.

Lastly, I've always heard m/m were the hardest bonds. IF this doesn't end up working out (which it very well could end up fine) you might want to try a female to bond your guy to. That is the most common pairing that works out.

Good luck! As I said I'm bonding too and it is alot of work so I understand. But I think it's also been fun watching their personalities and relationship emerge. But then again, I haven't even had one fight so that's probably easy for me to say. Buns fighting is hard to see :(

Keep us updated!
 
Tiny update: They no longer really seem "interested" in one another. Niki is in the pen today while Fen is free-roaming (I have to switch them out because there is no other room). The past 2 days, other than one incident with Niki getting a chunk of fur out of Fen through the bars, they are indifferent it seems. Fen is more interested in going under the bed than interacting with Nikolai. Is this a good sign? Maybe their aggression is dwindling?
 
Just a little update, with pics:

Wishing that I could get them to eat together and be happy:
7Tqt8.jpg


(That x-pen is not that small. It is cut off by a lot in the picture. Nikolai is in there for tonight. Also, Fen has his own litterbox so that is not the only hay he gets, haha.)

Nikolai's first day at home:
OZtpL.jpg


Their "formal" introduction:
Mptzx.jpg

^ This was after fighting, as you can see by the chunks of hair... They were not injured, and while safely standing by I wanted to see if it was merely a dominance dance, and I thought that they were comfortable with each other now that they were laying so close to each other in proximity, but I guess I was wrong. Can someone explain this behavior?
(Also note my terrible cropping skills of my foot!)
 
I think they are trying to figure out who is dominant which will obviously be a struggle for you. If they are both two headstrong males they are both going to push to be top bun, hence the flighting.

With bonding my two, I've notcied that the bun that laid down first and most often seemed to be the alpha. Almost as if they are saying "i rule, I'm relaxed, you are below me;)"

I think that is what your buns are doing here since it is just after a fight.

Granted this is better than going at it, but so much could be going on under the surface here.

I'm just one that prefers moving very slow. I feel like I've read more stories about fighting when bonding is pushed too soon. If I were you i would still give it some time.

Good luck!
 
Another introduction. Same result. Very frustrating...

So an idea came to mind: what about three? What if I added a spayed female to the pair? I heard that this can work in 3's. Or would this be a bad idea?
 
I do not think adding a female would help anything. That will cause them to compete even more. Trios are a whole other scenario often even MORE difficult to be successful than bonding two.

Is there a specific reason why you adopted another male to bond with your male? Same sex bonds can work out but not as often. Also, two males are usually most difficult. When I adopted Archie from the shelter I had an arrangement with them to bring him back if it didn't work out. Is that possible at your shelter? I know that's an extremely difficult decision to make and one you have to decide on your own but wanted to give you something to think about. It might be good to try a female or bunny dating so your guy can pick out who he is attracted too.

If you are not ready to give up, have you tried the scaring method yet? Its detailed it in the article I posted in my earlier post but basically it's where you scare the buns with a car ride, vacuum or washing machine and hope they turn to each other for security.

There are some people who believe you cab bons any two buns. It's just that some may take months and alot of patience. You will have to decide when the stress of it has become too much.
 
Update:

Unfortunately Fenrir and Nikolai could not bond. I even got help from someone from the Bunny World Foundation but no go. However, Nikolai found his match that day, a beautiful 4 mo female bun I named Mischa.

I have no idea what her breed is, can anybody help? (The woman said she had lop ears when she was a baby but they straightened out).

2Yh6q.jpg
 
Unfortunately I had to take him back to the humane society. It just wasn't fair to him. And my parents( even though renting from them), won't allow me to have 3.

She is spayed. A week ago. She is very skittish, but I need to check on how she is healing. How do I do this? What do I look out for?
 
Yes check her incision by flipping her on her back. You can try wrapping her in a towel if she's struggling bad.

Watch for her movement and make sure she doesn't get injured in any bonding scuffles. Being spayed just a week ago she's pretty new to be starting bonding yet. So I would keep an eye on things. Also you might want to limit her jumping just yet too to make sure she is healing good.

Don't feel bad about the other bun. Bonding is stressful and not always worth it to the owners or the buns if fighting is going on.

Best of luck to you are the new bonding with this bun!
 
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