head tilt

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naomij

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hi, this is my 11st post, someone kindly steered me onto this forum for more advice.

our 18 week old rabbit was taken to the vet today ( by husband as i was at work) as yesteray we realised his head was tilting, he had also been off his food for a few days before this, which is new as hes so greedy usually.



the vet has given:

baytril 2.5%oral

baytril injection 25%

dexadreson injection

panacur paste rabbit 5g(10 days)

supreme science recovery sachet

he is to go back tomor for another injection ( prob)

will he be okay, will his head go back to normal, shall i bring him inside, hes outside in a v large hutch at present,

thank you
 
Hmmm... Can you put your location in your profile? I'm not sure what's available in your area.

In my opinion, the vet is on the right track but with the wrong drugs. Better results have been proven with injectible penicillin instead of the Baytril, usually in conjunction with an oral antibiotic. (My vet in Canada uses ChlorPalm).

And steroids (assuming that's what dexadreson is) is no longer recommended in these parts because of immunity issues. Anti-inflammatory painkillers like Metacam (Meloxocam) are more the norm.

Panacur is something just in case it's a parasite, it may or may not help much, but its standard treatment.

Because the tilt is most likely from an ear infection, he may need penicillin injections for an extended period of time to knock it out, so best to learn how to do it yourself.

Good luck!


sas :clover:
 
The best thing would be to see what is causing the head-tilt. If you pin point that it is the best way to find the exact treatment.

:)If you have any questions please ask.:hug:
 
Umm....head tilt is something so near and dear to me. I do have to ask how up to date is your vet on rabbit treatments? I do have some concerns.

First, torticollis, wry neck, tilt or whatever you want to call it is usually caused either by head trauma or by an infection in the middle and/or middle ear. Many have long believed that a parasitic infection known as E Cuniculi is responsible for tilt. That does not appear to be the case.

As far as the drugs administered....Baytril is quickly becoming ineffective. All of my vets, all exotic focus specialists, have long ago abandoned Baytril in rabbits. I haven't used Baytril in domestic rabbits in several years. Dexadreson is a variant of Dexamethasone....which is a steroid. The idea behind using a steroid is to suppress immune response. Since we know that rabbits have a very fragile immune system, they carry numerous pathenogenic bacteria and that most tilt is caused by bacterial infections....steroids are contraindicated in this situation. The use of Panacur is related to the misinformation that tilt is due to EC. Fact is that it is not. EC does stress the immune system and that can allow those nasty bacteria to take over.....and if EC is present and you add a steroid, the door is open to some undesirable events as the immune system basiclly collapses from the stress of the infections and the use of a steroid. Panacur is one of the "bendazoles" which have traditionally been used against EC....and we have dosed for up to 60 consecutive days. We now know that Panacur has a very difficult andsometimes impossible task of penetrating the blood/brain barrier to reach the EC. Our experience here, based on treating numerous cases of EC, is that Panacur is not very effective. We are using another horse product, Ponazuril (Marquis) that can penetrated the blood/brain barrier.

I am not avet but I have treated many rabbits here in my rescue and even though we no longer take domestics, I still consult with vets and assist them with treatment. If this were my rabbit....the first thing I would do is culture the "down" ear. If we have presentations of bacterial infection but don't grow anything in the dish, assume Pasteurella (it's a faculative anaerobic that sometimes doesn't survive the trip to a petri dish). I fire the big guns with ear infections as they can quickly escalate and go into the brain stem. My drugs of choice are Pen G (a specific version and concentration)....safe only as an injectable along with either Azithromycin or maybe Zeniquin (which is related to Baytril but without the resistance issues....yet). In some cases we have used Chloramphenicol....but that drug carries some baggage (the problem is for the human...not the rabbit). Ear infections are painful. We use a NSAID like Metacam for up to 4 days and either a narcotic (Buprenex) or a derivitive (Tramadol) as needed. We usually see very high body temps with severe ear infections....supplemental fluids are essential both to control body temp and replenish lost electrolytes. The "down" eye should be lubricated several times per day. I also use an ear drop, most of the time Baytril Otic, and it must be placed deep into the ear canal.

It is very important to treat vestibular infections aggressively. Honestly, most vets are far too conservative. Due to the way the ears and balance mechanisms work in a rabbit....time is limited to control the infections and to offer the best chance at recovery.

The Panacur won't hurt....at least your rabbit won't have any worms. But most likely this isn't due to EC....and if it were, Panacur might not be the answer.

And insist your vet immediately discontinue the steroid.

Good luck.

Randy
 
I agree with Randy--the vet is a bit behind on rabbit care. Discontinue the steroid and get more aggressive antibiotic treatment. This type of thing requires a long-term dosing of the appropriate antibiotic, determined by a culture and sensitivity test.
 
thank you all for your kind advice, my husband will be asking the vet today about the change in meds for harry, if she wont agree we will find another vet.

his head actually looks worse today, much more tilted, no rolling or eyes rolling etc tho.

fingers crossed, my children are so worried
by the way, we are in the uk
 
forgot to mention, ihave listed the drug list you advised and will get husband to show the vet and insist we get this treatment for harry
 
well husband took harry to the vets today, explained what i had wrote down for them but they insist what they are doing is the right way and they have seen and treated a fair few the same as harry. he had another injection and is due back on saturday morning, i am going t go there and if he is no better, insist on new treatment.

i did call another vet and explained whats happened and the treatment they have harry on... and they agree and said it is what they would do also.

on a positive note, harry is eating loads and pooing etc this is a good thing yes, his eyes are not rolling and his neck/head looks no more tilted now, he has no other signs of being poorly apart from the head to the side.
 
Well I hope that their treatment works, although I'm not too confident in it. If they still refuse to give good treatment, it may be time to get a new vet. Most vets won't disagree with another's treatment over the phone as well.

I'm glad he's not rolling anymore.
 
I hope it works. I see first hand how many vets treat infections in rabbits. Most vets have never seenan actual acute case of E Cuniculi much less know it's primary and collateral presentations. And I usually get called in after things have escalated to the severe catagory. The treatment being used is very old school. And using steroids is just asking for problems. I happen to know the ancient manual that treatment came from. If you fully understand howa rabbit works based on what we know now, this treatment doesn't make medical sense. And in the doctor's defence again....they don't get much exposure to issues like this in vet school...they rely on printed material and the VIN.

And I can see the doctor's point of view. Some states have veterinary malpractice laws and many clinics by policy have to follow printed manuals....regardless of how out of date they are. One manual in particular is nothing short of scary. The vets have to follow the "CYA" policy. A prime example is administering motility drugs to a rabbit with a compromised GI. Motility drugs are not something I would everuse....but that information on their usehas been around for years.By adminstering these drugs the vet can show where it's in print in establishedmanuals. If the rabbit survives, they are a hero. If it dies, they followed printed information but the client got the animal too them too late for the drug to work except the rabbit died due to the way the drug works. It's a win-win and the client has no idea.

Regardless....let's all hope for a good outcome here.

Randy




 
tonyshman- harry never rolled int he first place or his eyes, just his head is tilted quite alot. he did go off his food, infact ate nothing but since treatment he has eaten so so much and also drank and going to the toilet. i am hoping these are good signs,

if by saturday he seems worse i will see the vet myself as i am not at work that day and insist they change his treatment.

thank you all for this advice once again, i know your all right, but getting a vet (s) to take notice is the difficult thing
 
You should definately bring him inside. I can personally vouch for a totally different remedy for head tilt. Ivomec. It kills the E cuniculi parasite and inhibits growth of the spores.

Rabbits are very delicate creatures and do not respond very well to antibiotics. In the end, an antibiotic can cause more problems by killing all the natural bacteria in the rabbits system. Replacing this with benebac will help- but remember;rabbits aregrazing animals and share more of a likeness to a horse opposed to a domestic animal.

People will argue this point till the cows come home, but the majority of wry neck is not caused by mites or inner ear infection. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but the majority of cases we've seen in our rabbitry (and heard of from others) are a result of being infected by e cuniculi. The Ivomec 1% liquid injectible fed orally(at a dose of 1/10cc per pound) is 80% effective and does not interfere with the rabbits delicate system. They will continue to eat and drink- and you will most likely see a hugeimprovement by day 3.

This doseage should be repeated onday 7 & 14. Rather agressive therapy, yes- BUT you are killing the parasite, NOT bacteria. A maintenance dose should be administered every 3 months for up to a year.

I am not a Vet butIAM a breeder who has studied extensively on rabbit illness and alternate treatments. I've also used this treatment on my own herd and can atest to it's effectiveness. A great article to read is written by Barbi Brown

http://www.barbibrownsbunnies.com/ecuniculi.htm
 
Hate to disagree with the last post but the fact is that E Cuniculi does not directly cause head tilt. In the abscense of trauma,inner/middle ear infectionis the primary cause of EC. EC has been tied to head tilt since it does suppress the immune system to a point that is allows opportunistic bacteria to make an appearance and the ears are the most vulerable to infections. The noted article is medically incorrect. E Cuniculi does it's damage while in the brain. Not only is E Cuniculi not sensitive to Ivermectin, that drug can't penetrate the blood.brain barrier. For that matter, the most commonly used treatment used by vets for EC, Panacur, also is unable to adequately penetrate the blood/brain barrier. The only drug we have available that can effectively penetrate the blood/brain barrier and be effective against EC is Ponazuril....and that drug was developed to combat EPM in horses. If Ivermectin has any positive effect on Wry Neck or whatever one calls it....it treated mites, not EC. Have treated many rabbits with suspected EC (and EC can only be properly diagnosed post mortem) and the only effective treatments for EC is Ponazuril and an aggressive support protocol.

Randy
 
Thank you from me, Randy! This info is priceless!:D

Best of luck, keep us posted.


Can we just splinter cell you? I need you for a vet! ahah. (Really):expressionless
 
My Liffey had head tilt 3 months ago. i was a wreck. I posted about it on here and everyone was VERY helpful and supportive. The one thing i found confusing is that everyone had a different opinion about how to treat his head tilt. some people didn't agree with what the vet put him on. i had run out of money and literally it was either pay the mortgage or go to the vet again. so i just trusted that it would turn out ok. for 4 weeks it was like he never got better. not even a sign of progress. and then it was like over night he was better. he was treated with antibiotics and something else but i can't remember what it was now. i really thought he would die. 6 weeks after starting treatment he is fully recovered and head is completely upright. just don't loose heart. there were days when he looked like he was getting worse than better. just when you're ready to buy the headstone and dig his grave he'll turn around....sad but true. it takes a long time. i have liffey tons of greens and we had to hand feed him for the first 3 weeks or so. we also had to hand feed him water. i used a medicine cup since he fought the syringe. i remember all i wanted to do was hold him but that actually made it worse. it made him dizzy and he'd start to look like he was having seizure. but he wanted so badly to be touched. i moved him from his NIC cage to his small travel cage. he lost control over potty stuff so i changed his twice a day. he pretty much stayed in a litter box in the travel cage. the sides of the litter box helped to hold him up. it is scary. like i said i was a wreck. then i found out i was pregnant during the whole event. it was crazy. feel free to vent....cry....whatever.....it's a scary thing to happen and you feel so hopeless!
 

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