Gimpy still having urine issues

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degrassi

degrassi

Valerie - Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
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Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
So Gimpy(my almost 9yo bunny) has been having some issues with peeing outside his litter box and stepping/sitting in it. I had started a thread about it a few weeks ago http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=76404&forum_id=16

Over these last few weeks I've made some changes like changing his flooring from coroplast to foam, cut his litter box wall down from 5" to 2" to make it easier to get in and started cleaning his butt and trying to keep it dry. So far he still hasn't used his litter box, going on over a month now, even with the new shorter side. I think it might hurt to jump as he is even moving around his cage a bit different and when it lays down his feet aren't in as a relax position as normal. During the day I'm able to clean up his cage any time he pees before he steps in it but at night I can't and I wake up to him wet and pee puddles all over the floor.

Anyways, so tonight I got someone to help me hold him so I could get a better look. Before I was trying to hold him myself, wrapped in a towel, and check him which wasn't the best way to see, I could just kind of clean him up and dry him. So tonight I got a good look. His underside is pretty matted right around his tail/leg area and it was damp with urine. To the right of his scent glad looked a little irritated(reddish, not broken skin) and his left leg had a bald patch along the inside(light pink, skin looked ok). His feet were dry and looked pretty good except there were little callouses at the base of his "heel". Is it normal for rabbits to have pads or a calloused area on the back of their feet? He has about a 1cm kind of "pad" that looked a bit red but the skin isn't broken. His tail is pretty gross, its all matted and urine soaked. I tried to remove some of the mats just with my fingers as the hair was just all stuck there and came out fairly easy. Then I rinsed it off in some water(used a little bottle to just dunk his tail) and cleaned out more of the pee. Then after seeing it cleaner and the hair parted because it was wet I noticed he has a open sore on the bottom of his tail. It was only a few millimeters but I hadn't seen it before. The mats might have been covering it or maybe a scab came off as there was something that I thought was poop but might have been a scab.

So I think its time to check in with the vet. It doesn't seem to be getting better with time and I don't want it getting any worse. Hopefully they can clip away his mats and check things over better. Will clipping away all the matted and gross hair help? Or will his tummy being clipped short cause other problems having less hair to protect him?


 
It sounds like you're dealing with urine scald. A vet check would definitely be a good idea to see if there's any reasons he's going outside the box other than old age. A urinalysis might be in order. Making the edge of the box lower was a good idea but if he can't even make it over that I would try lining his cage with something absorbent like fleece or towels if you don't think he'd chew them.
I can recall other members using vetbed in the past with incontinenance issues. It is fairly pricey but I know people who used it gave it rave reviews.
http://www.vetbedcanada.com/
 
I did put some fleece down on one side of his cage but since then he hasn't gone on that side. He doesn't take to change very well. Tomorrow I'll try covering his whole floor with a towel or fleece and see how that works. That way he can't choose to not go on it. He does chew sometimes(like chewing his new foam flooring a bit already) but before I used to give him little hand towels to play with and he did ok. I'll wait until tomorrow so I can watch him with it. I wouldn't trust him over night with it yet.

I"m torn between thinking he might have a urinary tract problem or the urine problem is just from something else(old age/pain or feet issue)causing him to not want to use his box and then getting wet. One thing is his actual area where he pees/poops from looks good and clean, not like its dribbling or anything. Thats why I figured it was more him just stepping in it after he goes.

Anyways, He's super ticked off at me to handling him tonight. He's sitting with his back to me and his face smushed into the corner. Poor little man. At least he's eating and drinking ok and doesn't look to be in immediate danger like when he had tummy troubles. I just hate when my little guy isn't feeling good :(
 
That sounds like a good plan to me. I would hate to have him ingest a towel and cause further problems but at the same time it sounds like something needs to be done to keep him from sitting in the urine. Something soft would probably help his feet too. You might try a little neosporin (the kind without the pain relief built in) on his sore areas if you can get them clean and dry first.
 
Well I'm finally back from the vet. I took him to a new better rabbit vet(my regular rabbit vet is never available when I need her) and she did a great exam on him. She checked him over and said he has a bit of arthritis in his back which I knew about. Checked his underside, feet, temp, teeth, eyes. He's lost a little bit of weight and she said had poor muscle mass in his back, around where the arthritis kind of is.

She then put him on the floor to see him move as she thought it had weird posture. Well I told her that the reason his name is Gimpy is because when he was a baby he didn't hop, he kind of walked gimpy. So he's always kind of hopped weird and mostly "walks" around or takes 2 hops and stops. She even commented on the way he tried to clean his feet saying he was doing it different then normal. So her idea, which are kind of what I was thinking too, is that the arthritis in his back along with his gimpy posture/movement is causing him to put pressure on his feet wrong. So it probably hurt to jump into his box and making him sit weirder then "his normal" so he developed sore hocks. Then because hes peeing outside the box he got urine scald and all matted.

So they clipped away all this mats and now he has a naked tummy, it should be easier to keep it clean and they gave me some cream(fucithalmic) to put on his tail sores and feet. I also had them do blood work and a urinalysis. It will be good to know if anything is seriously wrong(liver, kidney) or if he has a UTI. They will call tomorrow with the results. Then we'll figure out if we should try meds for his arthritis. Maybe all he needs is some pain control and he'll feel better.

So now he's home and looking pretty crabby. I put a towel down in his cage to see if that helps too. He ate a bit of hay but now he's just hiding in his box. Poor guy had a big day but all the staff commented on how sweet he was. Such a good bunny. I just wish I hadn't waited hoping this would fix itself like all the other times he's gone off his litter box.

Thanks for listening
 
I'm glad the vet visit went well. Hopefully you'll find some sort of solution. Maybe it's just the arthritis that's causing the problem, and hopefully they'll be able to give your bun something for it.
 
I'm glad to hear you found a vet you like.
For my own curiosity (I'm a first year vet student) do you know how they got the urine sample for your urinalysis? (did they stick a needle in the bladder or did they take a sample he peed out?)
Did you talk about trying any sort of pain meds? Might be best to wait until the bloodwork comes back anyway so you know his liver and kidney values but if it is pain from arthritis some sort of analgesia might make him more comfortable.
 
Yes we talked about pain meds. She mentioned Metacam and possibly neurontin, or toradol. She didn't give me anything today as she wanted to wait and see what the test results were. She'll call me tomorrow

I'm not sure how they got the urine sample as they took him to the back to do everything. I assumed it would be by needle to keep it sterile. I'll try to ask next time if I remember.
 
probably by needle if they did it during your visit. when I took mine in for urinalyses, I had to leave them there until they finally peed (which took a few hours).
 
Well the technique also depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking at the composition of the urine in the bladder, you'd want more of a sterile technique, but if you're looking for a urinary tract issue, urine that has actually passed through the urinary tract may prove more useful.
 
Well they didn't call with results today so I"ll see if they are open tomorrow. Usually they are sat mornings but they might be closed since its a holiday weekend. If thats the case I have to wait until tuesday, ugh.

So far the towel on the floor is working out. He hasn't tried to chew it which is good and it worked great at keeping him clean. I just checked him over and his feet and tail were totally dry. He was not happy at being handled so I had to burrito him. He was really ticked off and chewed some nice holes in the towel while I creamed his feet and tail. His poor tail is all scabby and he didn't like me touching it at all :(
 
OK Vet called with the results and there is nothing major showing up. She said the only thing showing up weird is his lymphocytes are high but I can't remember what that means. There were some other things just a little bit high but that it would be consistent with him having mobility issues and muscle loss/damage(increased protein and creatinine levels).

The urine test came back ok for infection but that its high in calcium. His pee is sometimes chalky and he has had a suspected UT blockage before so its not a surprise to me. Usually the treatment is reducing his calcium intake but he doesn't really get any. All he eats is timothy pellets(martin's brand) and timothy hay. She said some bunnies just excrete too much calcium and to just make sure he drinks a lot, not too much I can do about it.

Then she talked about his mobility. We are going to try some metacam and see if maybe getting pain control will help him move around better and start being able to use his box again.

She also suggested i try a probiotic to see if that helps get his tummy working normally. He's had a few GI issues over the past few years and for about 2 years now his "normal" poops are kind of tear drop shaped and smaller. So she said he might have a bacteria problem or imbalance and to try the probiotic.

So i'm going to pick everything up tomorrow afternoon. Gimpy has been pretty crabby with me having to put cream on him as he hates being held. He's also been trying to chew the towel on his floor so I had to spray a bit of bitter apple onto it. Seems to have stopped him. But at least it looks like he's perking up as he was chewing then shaking/flicking his head when I told him to stop, same thing he does when he gets excited. Tonight I'll see if he'll come out of his cage. So far this week he hasn't left it when I open it up for his play time.


 
Gimpy's doing a bit better. I forgot she also gave me some baytril because his tummy has been weird lately and she didn't want his sores on his tail to get infected with them being in the urine. He is not happy about being picked up and forced to take his meds 2x/day. The metacam is ok but he hates the taste of the baytril. She also gave me this probiotic called Florentero but he hates it so I decided to give him Bene-bac instead as he takes that better.


He did jump into his litter box yesterday for a couple minutes!!! And his feet are looking like they are healing ok. But man, my allergies to him are flaring up with having to handle him 2X/day. But its worth it!
 
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