GI/Tummy issues EVERY few weeks -- PLEASE HELP (depserate)

[ancoal7]

I have a dwarf/dwarf mix named Stella. I adopted her from a rescue about 3 months ago (they believe she is 1-2 years old, but did not know for sure her age). The first month she lived with me she was great -- she lives inside with me, she gets unlimited amounts of Timothy hay, 1/8-1/4 cup pellets per day, and 1 cup of dark leafy greens every 1-2 days. I give her a super small piece of apple maybe once or twice per week as a treat.

About a month after I got her home I noticed one morning that she seemed a bit lethargic and had not eaten very much hay or pooped very much, I cleaned out her litter box and panicked when I realized at the end of the day that she had not pooped AT ALL and had not eaten anything. I took her to the vet and they gave her medication to get her stomach moving. The medication was 3 X per day for 7 days. This helped, but about 1.5 weeks after I finished the medication it happened again. I brought her the vet, they gave me the same medication plus antibiotics just in case and this helped again. Now, its 1.5 weeks since I finished this last round of medication and it seems to be happening again.

I CAN'T afford to bring her to the vet every 3 weeks (cost wise, time wise, or sanity-wise -- I feel totally sick over the fact that she keeps getting sick, like I am doing something terribly wrong).

Does anyone know of ways to PREVENT this from happening and a way to fix it when it does without having to bring her to the vet every single time. The vet said some bunny owners are just at the vet every few months with this issue, which I think is ridiculous -- it can't be good for the rabbits to just wait until it happens if it keeps reoccurring. This is my first time owning a rabbit and I am desperate for help. Please -- any advice is appreciated.

 

[Imbrium]

what kind of pellets are you feeding? most have some sort of added sugar/molasses, which can cause GI issues for sensitive bunns. you might try switching to sherwood forest brand, which is all natural/has no sugars (https://www.naturalrabbitfood.com/sherwood-forest-natural-rabbit-food/ ) or even cutting pellets out of the diet completely and feeding more dark leafy greens. I would also skip the tiny bits of apple for a while to see if that helps - normally, a nibble of fruit now and then is perfectly healthy, but with stasis-prone bunnies it can be better to avoid any sources of sugar.

 

[Ape337]

Hello

I have the same problem with one of my bunnies (Freckles). I took him to the University of Pennsylvania (in Philly). Dr. Latney recommended NO pellets whatsoever for the rest of his life, no greens at all for the rest of his life. This was after several bouts of abnormal poos, lethargy, similar situation that you are describing. So this is his diet:
Unlimited hay, I feed Timothy, orchard, meadow, oat, botanical (not necessary to feed different varieties, just my decision). Oxbow critical care 1tsp 2x a day prepared as per package directions. Apple/banana bc he hates anise flavored! The critical care is the "treat" I'm allowed to give.

His poos will probably never be normal, and I will always have baby gas drops on hand if he looks gassy, but he is doing much better on this diet. But it must be strictly followed at all times or he will end up at the vet.

Btw, is your bunny spotted? Just curious. Apparently it's more common to have tummy issues with spotted bunnies.
Even if you don't find it necessary to go this strict with your bun I would just feed hay and water for 1-2 weeks to let her tummy settle. See if that returns her poos to normal.
Hope this helps :biggrin2:

 

[ancoal7]

This is very helpful. I know someone else on another forum suggested cutting out pellets, but I had thought the greens were good for them...no? I should cut that out too?

I have critical care already from the vet, but she HATES it, I have to wrap her up in a towel and hold her and then force feed her it, so giving it to her 2x per day seems like it would be terribly stressful on both of us.

She is not spotted, she is actually one color, a gray/brown color. ....

Thank you for your help! Would definitely love clarification on whether the leafy greens are actually good for bunnies or just a treat.

 

[Ape337]

Greens are excellent and necessary for normal buns. My other 2 eat 2c a day every day. Just for my freckles it's a problem. You won't know if it's a problem for your bun until you slowly re-introduce greens after a tummy rest. That's the only way to find out.
Freckles hates force feeding too (I think all buns do). I give it to him on a spoon, plate, or in a bowl and he scarfs it up. He absolutely hates anise flavored, so I tried apple/banana and he loves it. You might want to try offering the other flavor than the one you have. I only add enough water to make a ball with it so it's like a little treat.

I really would recommend a week of hay and water only just to see if your buns poos return to normal. Then maybe try some greens 1type at a time to see if your bun tolerates them. Very slowly is the way to go. Maybe start with easy tummy ones like wheat grass or cilantro. If all goes well introduce one more, then so on. If your bun can tolerate greens than the critical care is unnecessary. :biggrin:

 

[JBun]

I. have a rabbit with ongoing digestive issues as well and right now all he is getting is hay and green leafy veggies. He was new and I figured he got stressed being in a new home. He got stasis and I was doing the whole critical care thing. Then he got better and I tried switching him over to the pellets my other buns were on and he got sick again. So now it's just hay and green veggies. His poops were coming out extra large and small after all this so I also gave him probiotics for a couple weeks and now his poops are looking more normal. If I do ever try pellets with him, I'll probably try the sherwood forest cause of not having sugar or gtain in it. The one thing I don't like about giving critical care is that it also has added molasses in it like most of the tabbit pellets out there. So it's not something I like to continue to give for stasis issues.

You may want to try the no pellets route and just guve hay and green leafy veggies and see how that works for your bun. Avoid all fruit, sugars, grains, and extra carbohydrates and starches like carrots. Just stick to non sugary veggies. Maybe avoid the gassy veggies too. I would maybe stick with the green leafy ones at first for a couple week until you can see if there is improvement with the change in diet. And check those poops. If they are extra large or small, irregular shaped, mushy, runny, or not pooping like usual, then there is probably still a digestive problem. If the poops aren't normal after a week or two of the changed diet, you could try probiotics to see if it helps get the digestive bacteria back to normal. I think your vet is wrong presuming that this is a reoccuring problem that nothing cane be done about. If I were you I would be looking for a different vet that's more proactive in helping trying to prevent this kind of thing.

Edit: April's suggestion sounds good, about just cutting back to the hay at first, then slowly reintroducing the green leafy veggies to see if your buns tummy is ok with them.

 

[Imbrium]

I agree, a hay and water diet for a couple weeks and then gradual re-introduction of other foods is the best way to pinpoint the problem.

I forgot about gas being a potential cause for stasis issues - I'd stay away from cruciferous veggies when you start reintroducing them. here's a listing of veggies in that category:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruciferous_vegetables
a number of bunny-approved veggies are on the list, including kale, collard greens, bok choy and watercress.

you may end up only needing to cut cruciferous veggies or you may need to cut all veggies from the diet - trial and error is really the only way to figure it out.

if it seems to be starting up again, I'd also recommend giving some simethicone (baby gas drops) - give 1-2cc every hour for three hours, then 1cc every 3-8h as needed. simethicone is incredibly safe for rabbits... it might help and at the very worst, it can't hurt.

I also agree about looking into finding another vet - if we know more about preventative measures than your vet does, that's a bad sign. we've got a great listing of rabbit-savvy vets that can be found here - http://rabbitsonline.net/view_forum.php?id=9

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

Is she doing okay?

 

[majorv]

Personally, I wouldn't cut out pellets from her dietcompletely until you're 100% sure they are the cause of the problem. The only way to know that is after having her on hay/water only, re-introduce the pelletsfirst, in small quantities. What type of pellets were you feeding? IMO, a rabbit on a 'no pellet' diet is just asking formore problems down the road unless you know what your rabbit needs to get a well balanced diet.

 

[ancoal7]

Thank you all so much the advice, and PLEASE keep it coming. I am a first-time rabbit owner and HUGE animal lover, so I really want to make sure I am doing everything I can for Stella.

I am at work for the day, so have only be able to check in here periodically, but according to a family member, who is checking on Stella at home she has started eating a bit again and is pooping fine. The problem seems to be her eating especially the past few times. The first time this happened she stopped pooping, but the last two times she seems to just stop eating or eats very little, which to me indicates perhaps a belly ache.

I am definitely going to cut out the veggie and pellets for a few days and then re-introduce the leafy greens slowly -- are there certain leafy greens you would all suggest sticking with at first (I had been giving her Spring mix -- careful to avoid anything with iceberg or light lettuce).

And I will hold off giving her the pellets again until she is doing well and then slowly try to re-introduce to see what happens.

I also went out the store during my lunch break and got simethicone, which I plan to try if she seems at all uncomfortable when I get home.

 

[missyscove]

The nutritional advice above sounds good to me but I wanted to add that yes there are things you can do at home when your bun starts showing signs of stasis.
Simethicone is great, in my opinion. Basically no one is really certain that it helps but it definitely can't hurt and anecdotally it seems to help. It works by breaking a big gas bubble up into smaller ones which are easier to pass. I dose simethicone (20mg/ml liquid suspension marketed for human infants) at 1 cc per hour for the first 3 hours and another 1 cc three hours later (yes, this is more than the recommendation on the box for human infants.) I've found that buns think it tastes pretty good too.

I often treat with pain meds too as that often helps them to get eating again. I prefer metacam (meloxicam) but will also use low dose aspirin if I don't have the metacam on hand.

I almost always give critical care. It's easy to digest and the water in it helps with the hydration factor and sometimes it's just that trigger that gets them eating on their own again.

Another thing that's really important is keeping the rabbit hydrated so that the gut stays hydrated. I will usually syringe some water and then offer a second water source spiked with just a little juice or flavored pedialyte so it's extra tasty.

The grouping of symptoms we call stasis in rabbits is similar to colic in horses. When a horse colics the usual advice is to keep them moving. It's much harder to walk a rabbit but I usually encourage them to move around and/or give some tummy massages. Some folks have found that a vibrating toothbrush or a massage pad can help with this too.

The last thing that I can think of at the moment is a heat source. I use a sock filled with rice that I microwave and then lie next to them.

If it's a regular problem with your bun and you can't find a diet that fixes it, definitely talk to your vet about getting the medications (probably pain meds and metoclopramide to keep the gut moving) to keep on hand at home so that you can start treatment as soon as you're seeing signs. Not only will this probably result in a faster recovery, but it can cut down on the number of exam fees you're paying as well.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

ray:

 

[Imbrium]

ancoal7 wrote:

I am definitely going to cut out the veggie and pellets for a few days and then re-introduce the leafy greens slowly -- are there certain leafy greens you would all suggest sticking with at first (I had been giving her Spring mix -- careful to avoid anything with iceberg or light lettuce).

I would avoid anything on the cruciferous veggie list I linked earlier and treat it the same way as introducing veggies to a young bunny - introduce one veggie at a time a few days apart and start with small amounts/gradually increase the amount offered. make sure eating and pooping are normal, then introduce a second one. cilantro, parsley, dark leaf lettuces, basil, mint, etc. would be good veggies. (fwiw, I dunno about stores at your area but I was able to buy entire basil and mint plants for about the cost of a little packet of leaves from the grocery store. I'm bad at plants and they're still managing to grow like crazy.)

 

[Pipp]

Canned pumpkin, grass, hay, veggies and oral fluids and for sure no more of the meds! Rabbits can easily get dependent on gut motility drugs and build a resistance to antibiotics.

I would dose her with Panacur, though, in case it's a parasite. Sometimes when its a cycle like that it is due to a worm, and the diagnosis can be missed.

You're also just treating symptoms, and this will work if its diet or a parasite, but if it persists, you're probably going to need diagnostics starting with x-rays or a blood test.

Hope she's okay!


sas :clover:

 

[lindemanbunnylover]

Hi, I have a dwarf with same symptoms. She is white with red eyes. She looks lethargic and she is NOT acting like herself. When I took her out today, she had this jellish brown liquid on he bum. Also, She isn't pooping regular round poops! The only kind of poops I see in her cage are centrotypes! I am giving her unlimited amounts of timothy hay, water and 1/2 cup of pellets every day. This is not a new diet, and she has been on this diet since I got her 6 years ago! What should I do? Should I switch her diet?

 

[JBun]

lindemanbunnylover wrote:

Hi, I have a dwarf with same symptoms. She is white with red eyes. She looks lethargic and she is NOT acting like herself. When I took her out today, she had this jellish brown liquid on he bum. Also, She isn't pooping regular round poops! The only kind of poops I see in her cage are centrotypes! I am giving her unlimited amounts of timothy hay, water and 1/2 cup of pellets every day. This is not a new diet, and she has been on this diet since I got her 6 years ago! What should I do? Should I switch her diet?

When you say lethargic do you mean, isn't moving around much and is more sedate than usual, or lethargic as in not getting up, not moviing much, not eating? If she's just more sedate than usual, is she eating, and are there normal poops as well?

 

[Ape337]

lindemanbunnylover wrote:

Hi, I have a dwarf with same symptoms. She is white with red eyes. She looks lethargic and she is NOT acting like herself. When I took her out today, she had this jellish brown liquid on he bum. Also, She isn't pooping regular round poops! The only kind of poops I see in her cage are centrotypes! I am giving her unlimited amounts of timothy hay, water and 1/2 cup of pellets every day. This is not a new diet, and she has been on this diet since I got her 6 years ago! What should I do? Should I switch her diet?

My Freckles was passing jelly as well and my vet was not happy when she saw it. Freckles was diagnosed with cecal dysbiosis. I think you should take your bunny to the vet.

 

[lindemanbunnylover]

Yeah thanks......she is moving around. I took her outside and she hopped all over the place. She just sems less attentive to things around her. I have been pushing the water and I am keeping track on what she does (eat, drink, poo, etc) so far, she hasn't pooed since 10/17 at night and has not eaten as far as I can tell. When I was holding her on my lap today, she peed, but it seems as if she was in pain when she did this. The pee was white, but there were creamier chunky white blobs in the middle. Any ideas on what this is???She squeals and seizes up from time to time, in pain I think, and her stomach is swollen sometimes, and soft at others. I looked on the house rabbit society site, but there are so many similar cases! I am trying to convince mom to take my bun to the vet tomorrow, but she doesn't think it is serious! Also, she is worried about the cost since we don't have insurence on bun. Plz help me convince her that this might be dire before it is too late! And is there anything elce that I can do to make her feel more confortable? She doesn't look like the bun I knew just two days before! (she is 6 yrs old)

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Vet, now. NO time to lose. Maybe you can pawn something for fast cash.

Forcefeed with canned pumpkin (no spices), and get some electrolytes into her... Pedialyte (for infant rehydration in case of diarrhea).

Try taunting her with parsley, she may snap at it and eat it.

But you need a vet, and fast. (The very fact that she is showing distress to you indicates major pain. Prey animals try very hard to mask their pain, otherwise they are noticed by predators more quickly)

 

[Imbrium]

if your bunny hasn't eaten or pooped in > 24h, it is an EMERGENCY. the fact that she appears to be in pain and has blobs in her urine are even more reason to rush to the vet. do whatever you can to convince your mom - this could easily be life-threatening.

between now and the vet appointment:
~ if you have metacam/meloxicam, give her a dose. if you don't, give her a baby aspirin or low-dose aspirin.
~ syringe water to her
~ if you have critical care food, syringe-feed that. if you don't, do one or more of the following:
- mix pellets and water (or pedialyte); microwave. let sit for 5-10 mins so it can cool and the pellets can "fluff". mix thoroughly to break up the pellets/add more water if needed. syringe feed if she won't eat it herself.
- offer canned pumpkin (plain, not pie filling); water it down and syringe it if necessary
- syringe-feed fruit or squash flavored baby food.

these aren't remedies, mind you. basically, you're looking to relieve pain and get some food in her stomach (to keep her digestive system moving) just to keep her going long enough to make it to the vet.

here's a site with pain med dosing info for rabbits: http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm

oh, and if you're not already familiar with syringe feeding, here's a good video on how to do it: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iGZVYVm5Bg[/ame]

edit - re: jbun's comments on simethicone (post below this one)... given the urinary situation, I doubt gas is causing this which is why I didn't bother suggesting the simethicone myself. however, it is incredibly safe for rabbits so even if it doesn't help, it can't hurt.

also, don't forget to tell the vet about whatever you've done/given her to help her symptoms until you could bring her in.